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Pup7
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Then there’s THIS gem from the same article:
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What Is a Just Wage?
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Pup7
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From Wiki. Look closely at the top 48 urbanized areas from the 2010 census. Notice what cities hold 50% of the ENTIRE “urban” population.
The US is not actually “urban” in a city sense by definition. Most of the US does not live near a major urban area even though a chunk of our population lives there. The average American needs a car.
The US is not actually “urban” in a city sense by definition. Most of the US does not live near a major urban area even though a chunk of our population lives there. The average American needs a car.
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Socrates92
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Sounds like your using a couple extremes to justify your case. According to the weather network ([city] 7 Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Network - just used the max range: Jan 01 2001 to Present), the coldest temperature on record is only -26.3C or -15F, which seems pretty tame, not exactly life-threatening if you know how to dress. I’ve seen -35C where I’ve lived, not sure how much colder with wind chill. On days where it does hit -52F, maybe skip work? Cars might not start anyway…
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Pup7
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Yes, they do.
Cars have block heaters. LOL!!! Garages there are insulated and heated. I was staying at the Hyatt House in Minot and the GOV I had had a block heater. You went out, plugged it in for five or ten minutes, and boom - car started every time.
Cars have block heaters. LOL!!! Garages there are insulated and heated. I was staying at the Hyatt House in Minot and the GOV I had had a block heater. You went out, plugged it in for five or ten minutes, and boom - car started every time.
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Pup7
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That’s TEMP. Not wind chill. I was there TDY for two months - January and February 2015. I have friends who have been stationed there for years. Extreme wind chills are very common and not unusual.
You’re killing me with this. I love how you’re a US expert even though you’ve never lived here.
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Pup7
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Oh look! -45 F wind chill on a random day in December 2017.
With a high of -14 and a wind chill of -50!
Very common there. It was brutal to say the least. It’s windy and just a piercing cold.
Why are you treating me as though I have no idea what I’m talking about? You don’t live here. I’ve been around the US far more than you have - trust me. I’ve lived here pretty much most of my life (save five years), I’m from here, I’ve seen all but three of her states (AK, MI, WI). I know what life is like here.
And yet Americans get called presumptive and arrogant. Wow.
I’m going to bed. Please attempt to educate yourself on Life in These United States and don’t presume you know all about it.
With a high of -14 and a wind chill of -50!
Very common there. It was brutal to say the least. It’s windy and just a piercing cold.
Why are you treating me as though I have no idea what I’m talking about? You don’t live here. I’ve been around the US far more than you have - trust me. I’ve lived here pretty much most of my life (save five years), I’m from here, I’ve seen all but three of her states (AK, MI, WI). I know what life is like here.
And yet Americans get called presumptive and arrogant. Wow.
I’m going to bed. Please attempt to educate yourself on Life in These United States and don’t presume you know all about it.
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Pup7
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One last thing.
Here’s when I was there.
Why not Minot? Freezin’s the reason!
http://1033uscountry.com/life-threatening-cold-temperatures-for-the-area/
Here’s when I was there.
Why not Minot? Freezin’s the reason!http://1033uscountry.com/life-threatening-cold-temperatures-for-the-area/
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Socrates92
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If the top 48 urbanized areas account for over 50% of the urban pop (I think we established “urban areas” = ~71% total pop), then those areas are significantly more relevant to describing the life of an average American. Rural people simply aren’t average. They are the minority, even if the area that they are spread over is not. I’m not really seeing any significance to the number of towns the urban population happens to be divided into.
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Pup7
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OMG.
You are refusing to acknowledge that the CENSUS’ definition of urban is skewed. Is reading the link beneath you, or can you just not bend yourself to admit you’re clinging to a flawed premise?
The average American needs a car. I’ll own that it’s rare that I’m 100% correct, but this I’m 100% correct on.
You are refusing to acknowledge that the CENSUS’ definition of urban is skewed. Is reading the link beneath you, or can you just not bend yourself to admit you’re clinging to a flawed premise?
The average American needs a car. I’ll own that it’s rare that I’m 100% correct, but this I’m 100% correct on.
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Socrates92
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I’m not sure where you got this impression. If I thought you were clueless I wouldn’t bother discussing anything. Why would you assume any amount of skepticism or critical curiosity implies that I’m being dismissive?
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Socrates92
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I read the link, as should be clear, given I pulled data directly from it.
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Pup7
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Because when I tell you facts about some place I’ve been - and about which I know because Minot is practically USAF legend (we all know about the -40 to -50F wind chills and how common they are) - you say, oh, you picked an extreme. No, that’s common, every winter - for a few days at a time, but it happens.
Cars start, people go to work, kids go to school as usual because it’s part of life there.
The urban definition is skewed. 2500 people is the size of the town we lived in when my dad retired - trust me, that’s not “urban” in the same way that NYC is. It’s not even close. They’re also counting heavily populated suburban areas that are close together as “urban” - but that doesn’t mean there’s public transport.
Most of America needs a car. Most of America has no choice.
Please visit places outside of the top 48 (actual) urban areas of the US and educate yourself on what life is really like here.
Cars start, people go to work, kids go to school as usual because it’s part of life there.
The urban definition is skewed. 2500 people is the size of the town we lived in when my dad retired - trust me, that’s not “urban” in the same way that NYC is. It’s not even close. They’re also counting heavily populated suburban areas that are close together as “urban” - but that doesn’t mean there’s public transport.
Most of America needs a car. Most of America has no choice.
Please visit places outside of the top 48 (actual) urban areas of the US and educate yourself on what life is really like here.
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Socrates92
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This is the info I pulled:
“Urban area”: 80.7% of pop
The article’s argument summarized: urban clusters aren’t really that urban - granted.
That still leaves 71.2 percent.
So, to access the state of the average American, it seems that you would want to address primarily this group of people. In evaluating what the average American is, the average person from an “urbanized area” is almost 2.5 times (~71.2/28.8) more relevant than the average person from an urban cluster or rural area.
“Urban area”: 80.7% of pop
- urbanized areas - 50,000 or more: 71.2% of pop
- urban clusters - 2500 to 50,000: 9.5% of pop
The article’s argument summarized: urban clusters aren’t really that urban - granted.
That still leaves 71.2 percent.
So, to access the state of the average American, it seems that you would want to address primarily this group of people. In evaluating what the average American is, the average person from an “urbanized area” is almost 2.5 times (~71.2/28.8) more relevant than the average person from an urban cluster or rural area.
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Pup7
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So you pulled ONE stat out of the entire document, and didn’t bother to read the rest of it or appreciate what it said about how the areas are defined - which skews it.
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Socrates92
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mislick, still writing that post. relax and quit the knee-jerk reactions
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Pup7
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Fair enough and I apologize.
The problem is you’re not understanding that “urban” does not in this country translate to “readily available public transport”. It also doesn’t mean “we live like they do in NYC” - especially since it’s saying Hertford, NC (about 3000 people) is urban. (Look up Hertford. I assure you it isn’t what you’re thinking - not a smart answer - just remember that qualifies as an urban area.)
Most Americans do not have access to public transport.
Most Americans need a car.
I honest to heavens do need to go to bed, so if I disappear don’t think I’m running out on you.
The problem is you’re not understanding that “urban” does not in this country translate to “readily available public transport”. It also doesn’t mean “we live like they do in NYC” - especially since it’s saying Hertford, NC (about 3000 people) is urban. (Look up Hertford. I assure you it isn’t what you’re thinking - not a smart answer - just remember that qualifies as an urban area.)
Most Americans do not have access to public transport.
Most Americans need a car.
I honest to heavens do need to go to bed, so if I disappear don’t think I’m running out on you.
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Socrates92
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Fair enough. I’m willing to grant the weather point. I was really just asking on that. I do know a lot of people that tend to freak out over the slightest discomfort, so that’s the mindset I’m coming from. -25 and even -30 iis manageable and safe. The temperatures/wind chills you mention are not, so that’s a legitimate point.
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Socrates92
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I did in fact read that entire link. And as far as I can see, my argument still stands based on the adjusted 71.2% figure in that article.
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Pup7
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I didn’t dispute the figure.
I’m saying how it’s defined is 100% skewed. A town of 2500 will not have a bus system. Most small cities the size of Raleigh (which I think is in the neighborhood of 300K) don’t have decent public transport.
Most of the US needs a car. That has been my point. There is no way you can live in most of the US without one. Please, research public transport in the US. It’s abysmal, unless you live in NYC or DC. Our cities and urban areas were not designed around it. We in most cases have nowhere to put it in relation to the high traffic areas. Even in greater Seattle most people who do use the ferry or the train drive to the port or the station because there is no public transport from where they live. And most can’t afford to live in the city - they bring home more by commuting. My friends from New England joke that CT is just a home for the people who work in NYC - and that’s pretty accurate. An overwhelming number of people live in CT, drive to the nearest station, and take the trains to NYC. But they still have to drive.
It’s impossible for you to tell any of us what it’s like to live here, and it’s unfair. Categorically unfair. That’s what really annoyed me. I admit it made me laugh, and I do apologize as I know it’s rude for me to do that - but I remember how it was when it was dawning on my husband over that five years that you really can’t live in the US without a car unless you live in NYC or a place like it - and most people actually don’t live in a major city. This country is big, and we are spread out. It took me seven days to drive from SC to Seattle - 3500 miles or so. It’s 1700 miles from Bangor, Maine, to Miami, Florida. North Carolina is about seven hours wide from the coast to the mountains. We are spread out, even in our “cities”. We don’t live where we work because most can’t afford to do that. The answer isn’t move. Most Americans require a car.
(I will also submit that the average person likely does not think a town of 2500 is “urban” - most likely think greater NYC is “urban”, but Minot, ND - which is even bigger than 2500 - isn’t. The way the census is throwing around that word isn’t really accurately painting a picture of what most of the US is really like.)
I’m saying how it’s defined is 100% skewed. A town of 2500 will not have a bus system. Most small cities the size of Raleigh (which I think is in the neighborhood of 300K) don’t have decent public transport.
Most of the US needs a car. That has been my point. There is no way you can live in most of the US without one. Please, research public transport in the US. It’s abysmal, unless you live in NYC or DC. Our cities and urban areas were not designed around it. We in most cases have nowhere to put it in relation to the high traffic areas. Even in greater Seattle most people who do use the ferry or the train drive to the port or the station because there is no public transport from where they live. And most can’t afford to live in the city - they bring home more by commuting. My friends from New England joke that CT is just a home for the people who work in NYC - and that’s pretty accurate. An overwhelming number of people live in CT, drive to the nearest station, and take the trains to NYC. But they still have to drive.
It’s impossible for you to tell any of us what it’s like to live here, and it’s unfair. Categorically unfair. That’s what really annoyed me. I admit it made me laugh, and I do apologize as I know it’s rude for me to do that - but I remember how it was when it was dawning on my husband over that five years that you really can’t live in the US without a car unless you live in NYC or a place like it - and most people actually don’t live in a major city. This country is big, and we are spread out. It took me seven days to drive from SC to Seattle - 3500 miles or so. It’s 1700 miles from Bangor, Maine, to Miami, Florida. North Carolina is about seven hours wide from the coast to the mountains. We are spread out, even in our “cities”. We don’t live where we work because most can’t afford to do that. The answer isn’t move. Most Americans require a car.
(I will also submit that the average person likely does not think a town of 2500 is “urban” - most likely think greater NYC is “urban”, but Minot, ND - which is even bigger than 2500 - isn’t. The way the census is throwing around that word isn’t really accurately painting a picture of what most of the US is really like.)
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Pup7
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Because you’re not thinking that a town of 2500 is not a city. It’s far more rural by the “common man’s” definition. A town of 2500 isn’t going to have public transportation, and most people are not going to be working there because that’s not where jobs are.
It assuredly does matter because you’re thinking any “urban” area is going to be like Toronto. And it’s not, not by the census definition that you say you’ve read.
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