What Is a Just Wage?

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Sure, I agree. I’d also maintain that employees have to give businesses a reason to continue to employ them. I’m just interested in the logical mindset of those that deny the competitive aspect in the employer-employee relationship. Denying it there, to my mind, would extend logically to all other aspects of the economy, and logically lead to a 100% command economy, aka communism.
 
Socrates92 said:
The urban clusters and rural areas are not.
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Not to you. Just to those who live there.

The majority still need a car in this country, no matter what you say, no matter how you think you can interpret life here from the Internet.

Here’s why I’m saying the numbers are misleading. The actual population of the city of Charlotte, NC in 2010 was 738,561. Because the population living within the greater area is counted and because it counts people living in Charlotte zip codes that do not live IN the city, the census population is given as over one million.

Think about that fact. Please, google “Charlotte, NC population 2010” if you don’t believe me. Even in 2016 it’s not a million people - it’s only just over 842,000.

As I said, the census numbers and definitions are skewed. Urban area does not mean actual city population.

Also, please do some research on public transport in this country before you presume that everyone has access to it. We don’t. It’s used and accessed by few.
 
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Socrates92 said:
You make it sound as if mathematics were geography dependent.
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You make it sound as though surmising what it’s like to live somewhere else can easily be deduced from mathematics.

Those areas are quite relevant to the people who live there.
 
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Pup7 said:
Here’s why I’m saying the numbers are misleading. The actual population of the city of Charlotte, NC in 2010 was 738,561. Because the population living within the greater area is counted and because it counts people living in Charlotte zip codes that do not live IN the city, the census population is given as over one million.

Think about that fact. Please, google “Charlotte, NC population 2010” if you don’t believe me. Even in 2016 it’s not a million people - it’s only just over 842,000.
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Interesting. That also sheds further light on the question. Why didn’t you introduce those facts earlier in the discussion? It’s interesting that, while denigrating the usefulness of statistics, you continue to supply more.
 
Pup7 said:
Those areas are quite relevant to the people who live there.
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Antarctica is also very relevant to the scientists that work there. It’s still not overly representative of the world in general.
 
Socrates92 said:
Interesting. That also sheds further light on the question. Why didn’t you introduce those facts earlier in the discussion? It’s interesting that, while denigrating the usefulness of statistics, you continue to supply more.
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It’s interesting that you didn’t look it up for yourself after reading the explanations as to how the census arrived at their terms and their numbers.

And I DID say many posts ago that in the US you can have a city’s zip and not live in the city - and you are counted AS LIVING IN THAT CITY. So why not just look up the actual population of, say, Charlotte in 2010 on your own? I Googled it.

You’re quick to say “you didn’t provide X” when you didn’t bother to look for it on your own.
 
Socrates92 said:
But in order to have that discussion, we have to first address what a just wage is.
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Good luck getting an answer to that one. It’s the whole reason I started the thread. I was hoping we could center the discussion around that very issue.

How would you define a just wage?
 
Socrates92 said:
Antarctica is also very relevant to the scientists that work there. It’s still not overly representative of the world in general.
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Oh good grief. It was a sarcastic joke.

Has no bearing on the fact that most of the US needs a car - which has zero to do with how “urbanized” the country is and has more to do with a lack of accessible public transport.
 
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BoomBoomMancini said:
Whatever an E1 in the Air Force makes minus 5k.
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Holy cow.

An E-1 with less than four months TIS (time in service for the civilians) - so right out of basic - makes $8.73 an hour assuming a 40 hour workweek. They make just over $18K a year.

Take away $5000, and you’re down to $6.33 an hour.

(After 4 months, they go up to $1638/mo, so $9.45 an hour. And people wonder why I say they’re underpaid.)

(I do think you were being a bit sarcastic - I was just curious as to what that would come out as.)
 
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I said you were being sarcastic. 🙂 I got it. LOL.

But I admit I got curious. And I could see SOMEONE was going to ask. lol again. 🙂
 
But of course, someone might point out the monetary value of all their benefits, plus the fact that for an 19 year old E2-E3 living in the barracks, their only real expense is their cell phone bill. Free housing, free utilities, free meals in the DFAC…suddenly it doesn’t look so bad, especially if you were in high school six months ago and have no particular skills.

Ok, ok, I’m done. Turning off the light on that one. 🙂
 
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ProdglArchitect said:
Take, for example, a fast-food worker. The intended worker for that job is High School students. It’s an entry-level position meant to get the person some work experience and some pocket money.
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I’m going to stop you right there. Living expenses need to be taking into account. The person earning the wage should be able to pay for a place to live, food and clothing and hopefully enough to squirrel away for the winter.

If someone is living at home or somewhere else or has roommates that allows them to undercut the average expenses then good for them. That shouldn’t take away from someone else.
 
How much do you think it would cost to eat at McDonald’s for the rest of us and how much do you think the cost of living would go up if a fast food worker made twenty bucks an hour?

I can tell you right now - with this $15/hr up here, McDonald’s is cutting back employees and increasing the number of kiosks for ordering, so think carefully. The housing market and the cost of rent are both spiraling out of control as well.
 
KMC said:
Just so we are clear: If a business could possibly hire someone that drives $10 per hour of value, but your definition of a living wage (for argument’s sake) is $20 per hour, then you would want the business to hire no one? Does that support the common good?
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I have a hard time with the some-is-better than none argument because the notion, “At least they’re better off than the homeless” encourages complacency when there’s much room for improvement.

In your donut shop example, I’d say that if you’re determined to run the business despite being unable to pay a just/living wage to your employees, it should gnaw at your conscience to think that those who work hard for you are unable to make ends meet on what you pay them. This should be addressed through both prayer and advocacy. The latter would entail making your community more local business-friendly. There are some inane costs and regulations that burden small business owners and could instead be shifted toward better payment of their employees.

I realize that this thread is long, but I’ve actually addressed both the large corporations and small businesses, the latter of which I stated would improve if large corporations took on their share of taxes and health insurance were separated from employers.

Finally, keep in mind that higher wages will help business and the economy at large; people who have more money can spend more money.
 
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