What is Christ's Church?

[ALLFORHIM]

That is probably the surest sign I have seen from you that you really

[1] don’t know what you are saying

[2] don’t care what you are saying

How strange that a God would leave us no better than orphans, each on his own to fend for himself… each without a guide… just a membership card in the body of believers…

Hi,

We werent left to fend for ourselves we were left with the HS if we choose to follow Christ and we were left with the Holy Bible and thankfully each of us were given specific gifts so we can use them within the body of Christ to further His message of Faith Hope and Love:thumbsup: Just because I dont belong to the CC I dont feel abandoned at all I know Christ is with me every single day. I dont even need a church for that. Although I do feel it is important to belong to a church that are fello sister’s and brother’s in Christ.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Hi,

We werent left to fend for ourselves we were left with the HS if we choose to follow Christ and we were left with the Holy Bible and thankfully each of us were given specific gifts so we can use them within the body of Christ to further His message of Faith Hope and Love:thumbsup: Just because I dont belong to the CC I dont feel abandoned at all I know Christ is with me every single day. I dont even need a church for that. Although I do feel it is important to belong to a church that are fello sister’s and brother’s in Christ.

So very glad you mentioned HOPE. It is wat true Christians have the Hope of Salvation. I noticed you did not say Faith Assurance and Love.

For all that I know that follow the Holy Catholic Church hove thoe gifts FAITH HOPE and CHARITY (LOVE).

 

[MrS]

Hi,

We werent left to fend for ourselves we were left with the HS if we choose to follow Christ and we were left with the Holy Bible and thankfully each of us were given specific gifts so we can use them within the body of Christ to further His message of Faith Hope and Love:thumbsup: Just because I dont belong to the CC I dont feel abandoned at all I know Christ is with me every single day. I dont even need a church for that. Although I do feel it is important to belong to a church that are fello sister’s and brother’s in Christ.

ALLFORHIM, I have many sons, two of whom are Baptist and who I believe love the Lord… as it seems you do… and I have heard before what you express now.

All the grace we could receive comes from the Holy Spirit. He is manifest in our lives, but not present as Jesus is in the Eucharist - but that is another doctrine.
That promise was made to the Apostles specifically… not all the disciples. The Holy Spirit was promised as the One Who would lead the Church in to all Truth. The leaders of the Church, and Peter specifically, had the responsibility to “Feed My sheep, tend My flock, feed My sheep”… not you , not me, and not the reformers and their followers.

We were NOT, however, left with a Bible. A few of the Apostles, and some of the early Catholics (like Luke) did write down much of what they learned, and had been teaching orally (Tradition)

But it was the Holy Spirit working in their lives specifically with regards to what they wrote.

It was the Holy Spirit working in the life of the Catholic Church, specifically, that led to the canon of Scripture, most of which you accept as inspired.

And the Holy Spirit may choose to work in your life, specifically, for some good. Your first gift was to even know the Jesus loves you. God bless you for responding.

But somewhere along the way, you have been shortchanged… not by the Holy Spirit, but by

[1] the leaders of your faith community who keep you as an in-but-separated member of the Body of Christ.

[2] yourself for not using the gift, nay the grace, of reason that it appears you have,

Faith and Reason work hand in hand… at some point, may they work in your walk with God.

.

 

[Sixtus]

Jmcrae

AMEN

y friend, where did Jesus teach the sinlessness of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, purgatory or any number of Catholic doctrines? Don’t you agree it’d be good not to add words to Jesus’ mouth?

When I bought my car, I was given a manual. The manual was not the car. It merely explained how the car worked.

I had problems with my car which were not in the manual. Not everything was in the manual, somethings were left out. I do not know why they were but they were.

I tried to work it out on my own but got into all sorts of problems. I had no idea if my interpretation was right, it was possible to have many interpretations. I had to go to the authority who wrote the manual. They interpreted for me those bits which were not in the manual. They had a pretty good grasp of understanding my car.

They should have, after all they wrote the manual. Not everything about my car is in the manual, a lot is left for the driver to discover such as how to corner, how to drive in a straight line. But now I know that if I have a problem in the future, I can go to the authority who wrote the manual and ask.

They KNOW THE TRUTH! That is why they were appointed by the Maker to write and interpret the meaning of the manual

 

[mrs_abbott]

When I bought my car, I was given a manual. The manual was not the car. It merely explained how the car worked.

I had problems with my car which were not in the manual. Not everything was in the manual, somethings were left out. I do not know why they were but they were.

I tried to work it out on my own but got into all sorts of problems. I had no idea if my interpretation was right, it was possible to have many interpretations. I had to go to the authority who wrote the manual. They interpreted for me those bits which were not in the manual. They had a pretty good grasp of understanding my car.

They should have, after all they wrote the manual. Not everything about my car is in the manual, a lot is left for the driver to discover such as how to corner, how to drive in a straight line. But now I know that if I have a problem in the future, I can go to the authority who wrote the manual and ask.

They KNOW THE TRUTH! That is why they were appointed by the Maker to write and interpret the meaning of the manual

Good analogy!

 

[MrS]

Jmcrae

AMEN

When I bought my car, I was given a manual. The manual was not the car. It merely explained how the car worked.

I had problems with my car which were not in the manual. Not everything was in the manual, somethings were left out. I do not know why they were but they were.

I tried to work it out on my own but got into all sorts of problems. I had no idea if my interpretation was right, it was possible to have many interpretations. I had to go to the authority who wrote the manual. They interpreted for me those bits which were not in the manual. They had a pretty good grasp of understanding my car.

They should have, after all they wrote the manual. Not everything about my car is in the manual, a lot is left for the driver to discover such as how to corner, how to drive in a straight line. But now I know that if I have a problem in the future, I can go to the authority who wrote the manual and ask.

They KNOW THE TRUTH! That is why they were appointed by the Maker to write and interpret the meaning of the manual

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif

Think of how hard your project could be if your manual had been re-translated by a competitor ???

         .                    [smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_2_110.gif](http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

%between%

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,

I agree, it just wasnt the RCC it was the universal church of believer’s:thumbsup:

This is a fallacy. You cannot find this thought anywhere in history. The first Christians certainly didn’t believe this (because the Apostles never taught them such a thing), nor will you find this anywhere prior to the Reformation. It is a lie. I must call a spade a spade, and so should you.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,

We werent left to fend for ourselves we were left with the HS if we choose to follow Christ and we were left with the Holy Bible and thankfully each of us were given specific gifts so we can use them within the body of Christ to further His message of Faith Hope and Love:thumbsup: Just because I dont belong to the CC I dont feel abandoned at all I know Christ is with me every single day. I dont even need a church for that. Although I do feel it is important to belong to** a church** that are fello sister’s and brother’s in Christ.

We weren’t exactly left with the Bible, the Bible was compiled mainly for use within the Catholic liturgy.

It’s nice that you don’t feel abandoned, but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - feelings are bad telltale signs and can easily be misleading.

Also, you keep saying “a” church. It’s not “a” church that we should be worried about, but “The” Church is. There is only One True Church as there is onle One True Christ. It is important that we be a part of it because we know as Christians that it is only through Jesus Christ that we obtain salvation. Christ and the Church are One.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

This is a fallacy. You cannot find this thought anywhere in history. The first Christians certainly didn’t believe this (because the Apostles never taught them such a thing), nor will you find this anywhere prior to the Reformation. It is a lie. I must call a spade a spade, and so should you.

Hi,
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We weren’t exactly left with the Bible, the Bible was compiled mainly for use within the Catholic liturgy.

It’s nice that you don’t feel abandoned, but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - feelings are bad telltale signs and can easily be misleading.

Also, you keep saying “a” church. It’s not “a” church that we should be worried about, but “The” Church is. There is only One True Church as there is onle One True Christ. It is important that we be a part of it because we know as Christians that it is only through Jesus Christ that we obtain salvation. Christ and the Church are One.

Hi,

Yes I agree with you we just have different definitions of who the church is that is why we will have to agree to disagree. Any of our debating is going to stem from different definitions. Therefore probably making it pointless because neither one of us will change our minds. So we are just going in circles here.

So on that note I should humbly bow out.

 

[MrS]

Hi,

Yes I agree with you we just have different definitions of who the church is that is why we will have to agree to disagree. Any of our debating is going to stem from different definitions. Therefore probably making it pointless because neither one of us will change our minds. So we are just going in circles here.

So on that note I should humbly bow out.

While that is very true, it should not be a terminator to discussion. As for the “humbly bow out”… the opposite is true.

As for the word Church… if you could/would study the history of Christianity… you would see that the word Church was only (repeat only) used in connection or reference to the group of men and women who were freely subject to the teachings of the Apostles. Church and Apostles were connected like siamese twins.

But the meaning has changed in recent centuries only… and now is used by any upstart who thinks he is a messenger of God and His Truth, Jesus Christ. We see the word used everywhere to mean whatever one wants it to mean.

But here is the fact, Jack…

There is only One Church… the one the world knows as the Catholic Church. All those who claim to be Christians and are not part of the Catholic Church, are simply members of a faith community… and no more.

It is not so strange that there are as many “denominations” or faith communities as there are. The vanity of mankind, fueled by the evil one, has resulted in many “walking away”.

Some, in what they perceive as their own honest emotions, will not walk away… they will just bow out.

ALLFORHIM, you are not just bowing out. I/we here at CA must remember that eyes are opened in God’s time, not ours. And until that happens, we love you and we pray for you and yours.

 

[skeptictank]

I have been taught the Truth by the One, Holy ,Catholic, and Apostolic Church!

Is that really where one should be getting their truth? Is that what the church teaches?

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

God Bless

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Hi,

Yes I agree with you we just have different definitions of who the church is that is why we will have to agree to disagree. Any of our debating is going to stem from different definitions. Therefore probably making it pointless because neither one of us will change our minds. So we are just going in circles here.

So on that note I should humbly bow out.

You can agree to disagree all you want, but until you do some honest studying of Church history you will only continue to live in your own made up world. Certain things happened, certain things were taught - you can find these clearly if you truly study history. I believe Cardinal Newmann was right (he was also a convert like many of us on here), “to be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant.” Agreeing to disagree on something so easily verifiable as is the history of the Church would be a rediculous thing to do.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Is that really where one should be getting their truth? Is that what the church teaches?

God Bless

Not only is it what the Church teaches, it is also taught in Scripture:

1 Tim 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[mrs_abbott]

As for the word Church… if you could/would study the history of Christianity… you would see that the word Church was only (repeat only) used in connection or reference to the **group of men and women who were freely subject to the teachings of the Apostles. Church and Apostles were connected **like siamese twins.

I think that right there is the point of this whole thread. It doesn’t say specifically the Catholic Church. I know there’s gobs of history and whatnot to prove your case and the other side has theirs. Everyone thinks they are right. ALLFORHIM was right saying that the discussion has gone in circles.
MrS, are you waiting for someone to change their viewpoint and agree? It just seems like there will be no conclusion on this. How about agree to disagree?

MrS:

There is only One Church… the one the world knows as the Catholic Church. All those who claim to be Christians and are not part of the Catholic Church, are simply members of a faith community… and no more.

And the world turns . . .

 

[E.E.N.S]

mrs_abbott:

I think that right there is the point of this whole thread. It doesn’t say specifically the Catholic Church. I know there’s gobs of history and whatnot to prove your case and the other side has theirs. Everyone thinks they are right. ALLFORHIM was right saying that the discussion has gone in circles.
MrS, are you waiting for someone to change their viewpoint and agree? It just seems like there will be no conclusion on this.

I have yet to see any shred of evidence that the Church throughout history was any other church than the Catholic Church. Just was evidence does “the other side” have??

How about agree to disagree?

And the world turns . . .

I made a comment about agreeing to disagree just a couple of posts above. It’s akin to saying that I believe George Washington was a president of the United States and you believed that he wasn’t, and you wanted to “agree to disagree” - which on something as verifiable as Washington being president or the Catholic Church being the historical Church is a silly resolution.

One could just as soon to agree to disagree that 2+2=3.

 

[MrS]

I think that right there is the point of this whole thread. It doesn’t say specifically the Catholic Church. I know there’s gobs of history and whatnot to prove your case and the other side has theirs. Everyone thinks they are right. ALLFORHIM was right saying that the discussion has gone in circles.
MrS, are you waiting for someone to change their viewpoint and agree? It just seems like there will be no conclusion on this. How about agree to disagree?

And the world turns . . .

sorry… gotta smile… you being a bank teller and all…

The next time you are confronted with a conterfeit bible, I mean bill … do and say nothing. Afterall, the person’s intentions might be good.

And afterall, they probably paid good money ( ) for the copy machine, and they are not forcing you to “phony-up” and actually use their bills… just accept them for payment.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_4_118.gif

But back to the OP… Christ’s Church is the only one He founded. What is so difficult with that?

It is not, and will never be, the one(s) founded by anyone else,

The bottom line is that ALLFORHIM is undoubtedly a good person… and because she is, she will soon come to the conclusion that she is really MOSTLYFORHIM… correcting that is the hard part, and that deserves our prayers.

(by the way… it is only a theory that the world turns… never proven, never disproven… just easier for most to accept… weird huh?)
%between%

 

[mrs_abbott]

sorry… gotta smile… you being a bank teller and all…

The next time you are confronted with a conterfeit bible, I mean bill … do and say nothing. Afterall, the person’s intentions might be good.

And afterall, they probably paid good money ( ) for the copy machine, and they are not forcing you to “phony-up” and actually use their bills… just accept them for payment.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_4_118.gif

But back to the OP… Christ’s Church is the only one He founded. What is so difficult with that?

It is not, and will never be, the one(s) founded by anyone else,

MrS:

The bottom line is that ALLFORHIM is undoubtedly a good person… and because she is, she will soon come to the conclusion that she is really MOSTLYFORHIM… correcting that is the hard part, and that deserves our prayers.

How can you judge her like that? It’s between her and God what she believes. You can’t say what she will and will not do. :nope: We could all take a page from her book of Christian charity because it never fails that when discussions get heated and turn personal, the name calling starts. It’s very sad.

 

[mrs_abbott]

sorry… gotta smile… you being a bank teller and all…

The next time you are confronted with a conterfeit bible, I mean bill … do and say nothing. Afterall, the person’s intentions might be good.

And afterall, they probably paid good money ( ) for the copy machine, and they are not forcing you to “phony-up” and actually use their bills… just accept them for payment.

Religion and work do NOT go together. Sorry.

MrS:

But back to the OP… Christ’s Church is the only one He founded. What is so difficult with that?

It’s not difficult. What makes it so difficult is when you define Christ’s Church. The definitions range from visible to invisible. That’s quite a span!

MrS:

The bottom line is that ALLFORHIM is undoubtedly a good person… and because she is, she will soon come to the conclusion that she is really MOSTLYFORHIM… correcting that is the hard part, and that deserves our prayers.

Correcting what? She has more faith than quite a few people I know. Her relationship with God is just what it is: it’s between her and God. We could all take a page from her book on Christian charity. She’s been nothing but nice when expressing her beliefs, even though they clash with the majority of the Catholics here.
The tendency for most is when the discussions get heated and personal, the name calling begins.
Maybe we need to be more tolerant of our Protestant brothers and sisters’ viewpoints. Afterall, we worship the same God.

 

[E.E.N.S]

mrs_abbott:

Religion and work do NOT go together. Sorry.

Then, pray tell, what is Opus Dei all about?

mrs_abbott:

It’s not difficult. What makes it so difficult is when you define Christ’s Church. The definitions range from visible to invisible. That’s quite a span!

Yes, but who’s definitions? This whole idea of the “invisible church” that protestants bring to the table is relatively new, and it was formed outof necessity to justify there own new and seperated beliefs. It is not scriptural and it is certainly not historical.

mrs_abbott:

Correcting what? She has more faith than quite a few people I know.

How do you know how much faith she has??

Mrs_abbott:

Her relationship with God is just what it is: it’s between her and God.

Ahh but Christianity is communal. We can’t just cut all that God has placed before us out of the picture and make it a “me and Jesus” faith. Again, this is not scriptural nor historical.

mrs_abbott:

We could all take a page from her book on Christian charity.

I would agree, she does tend to show a little more charity than some of the posters here - including myself. But let’s not forget that if we compromise truth for the sake of “charity” we are actually doing charity a tremendous dis-service.

mrs_abbott:

She’s been nothing but nice when expressing her beliefs, even though they clash with the majority of the Catholics here.
The tendency for most is when the discussions get heated and personal, the name calling begins.
Maybe we need to be more tolerant of our Protestant brothers and sisters’ viewpoints. Afterall, we worship the same God.

We can only be tolerant insomuch as we do not at the same time compromise truth for error.