What is Christ's Church?

[Blue_Serenity]

You are discussing Christ’s Church, not your favorite colors, favorite songs, or favorite recipes.

“What is Christ’s Church” is a real question with a real answer. Either the Catholic idea is right, and the Protestants are wrong; or the Protestant idea is right, and the Catholics are wrong. Both ideas cannot be right. Either Christ intended for His Church to be a real, visible institution which can trace its roots back to the Apostles through Apostolic succession or to be an invisible entity of true believers.

Don’t worry about being nice. Be charitable yes, but meaningful discussions have no need for “niceness.” Keep seeking the Truth.

And the Catholics say they’re right and the Protestants say they’re right. Now what?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Without the Catholic Church, there can’t even be a “rest of Christianity.” Without the anchor of the Pope and the 1.2 billion Catholics, the few million Protestants would soon be swallowed up into Judaism, paganism, and secularism - it’s the Catholic Church that causes Christianity to be a “major world religion.”

You sure about that?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

ALLFORHIM and Blue Serenity’s “churches” are not as old as ours, and saying so only serves to spread confusion. (You are right that there is only One True Church, but AFH and BS do NOT think that it is the Catholic Church - which it indeed is.)

I knew my ears were burning. I thought I heard my name on one of these threads.
Yes, I believe our church is as old as yours because it IS the same church. We share the same history, up until the Reformation.
The Reformation (my opinion) was a correction that needed to happen with the CC. So you see, we are all still technically catholic (universal) because just founded ONE church: Christianity.
I will anxiously await your response.

 

[MrS]

I knew my ears were burning. I thought I heard my name on one of these threads.
Yes, I believe our church is as old as yours because it IS the same church. We share the same history, up until the Reformation.
The Reformation (my opinion) was a correction that needed to happen with the CC. So you see, we are all still technically catholic (universal) because just founded ONE church: Christianity.
I will anxiously await your response.

Do or did your pastors/teachers EVER, at any time in the last 2000 years receive their authority to teach in His name from the Apostles? NO

Do or did your pastors/teachers EVER, at any time in the last 2000 years have the power to forgive sins or confect the Eucharist? NO

Do or did your church ALWAYS and still teach that divorce and remarriage is a adultry… contraception is a sin… and abortion at any time is murder?? NO

Do or did your church (correctly termed a faith community) EVER profess the communion of saints, the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God, infant baptism, the existence of purgatory etc etc, NO

Do or did your church EVER acknowledge the authority on earth of the Magisterium (teaching body) instituted by Chirst Himself, protected from teaching error in matters of faith and morals, and continiuing from Peter till the end of time? NO

so.

technically, you are not one who believes ALL that Jesus instructed orally (Tradition), and ALL of those teaching which became written to form the NT.

How is it that you can tell yourself that you are fully part of Christ’s intent that there be One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism???

2 words… you can’t

We share the same history, up until the Reformation.

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Nope… either up so or since the Reformation !!!

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Do or did your pastors/teachers EVER, at any time in the last 2000 years receive their authority to teach in His name from the Apostles? NO

Do or did your pastors/teachers EVER, at any time in the last 2000 years have the power to forgive sins or confect the Eucharist? NO

Do or did your church ALWAYS and still teach that divorce and remarriage is a adultry… contraception is a sin… and abortion at any time is murder?? NO

Do or did your church (correctly termed a faith community) EVER profess the communion of saints, the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God, infant baptism, the existence of purgatory etc etc, NO

Do or did your church EVER acknowledge the authority on earth of the Magisterium (teaching body) instituted by Chirst Himself, protected from teaching error in matters of faith and morals, and continiuing from Peter till the end of time? NO

so.

technically, you are not one who believes ALL that Jesus instructed orally (Tradition), and ALL of those teaching which became written to form the NT.

How is it that you can tell yourself that you are fully part of Christ’s intent that there be One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism???

2 words… you can’t

We share the same history, up until the Reformation.

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Nope… either up so or since the Reformation !!!

Wow, I guess you showed me by answering your questions yourself. That’s ok, I’m getting a little tired of trying to explain myself.

 

[MrS]

Wow, I guess you showed me by answering your questions yourself. That’s ok, I’m getting a little tired of trying to explain myself.

I take it that you must therefore agree with my answers… see we are making progress.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I take it that you must therefore agree with my answers… see we are making progress.

We can agree to disagree to end the debate, if that’s what you’re asking. We will never truly agree though, I’m afraid. :nope:

 

[MrS]

We can agree to disagree to end the debate, if that’s what you’re asking. We will never truly agree though, I’m afraid. :nope:

As long as someday you see that your statement is nowhere supported by a 2000 year Catholic History nor a less than 500 year every-one-else history - which are diametrically opposed.

I encourage you to provide any data to refute.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

As long as someday you see that your statement is nowhere supported by a 2000 year Catholic History nor a less than 500 year every-one-else history - which are diametrically opposed.

I encourage you to provide any data to refute.

You’re persistent, I’ll give you that.
We are united in history and Truth. It’s up to you to either see that and accept the differences that exist today or not see it and continue to go round and round with this.
We were all Catholic, at one point in time or another.

 

[MrS]

You’re persistent, I’ll give you that.
We are united in history and Truth. It’s up to you to either see that and accept the differences that exist today or not see it and continue to go round and round with this.
We were all Catholic, at one point in time or another.

I showed you where we are not…

You did not refute, you only restate your opinion… no facts.

You are not Catholic… yet.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

You’re persistent, I’ll give you that.
We are united in history and Truth. It’s up to you to either see that and accept the differences that exist today or not see it and continue to go round and round with this.
We were all Catholic, at one point in time or another.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

And the Catholic Church holds that authority (power) here in the present period!

 

[MrS]

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

And ONLY the Catholic Church holds that authority (power) here in the present period!

 

[Blue_Serenity]

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

And the Catholic Church holds that authority (power) here in the present period!

Really? I thought this was a mention of Heaven.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I showed you where we are not…

You did not refute, you only restate your opinion… no facts.

You are not Catholic… yet.

Again, round and round we go. :whacky:
By the looks of things, I won’t be a Roman Catholic in this lifetime. If anything, I’d become Orthodox before becoming Catholic. But why are we even talking about that because it’s not going to happen. :nope:

 

[MrS]

Again, round and round we go. :whacky:
By the looks of things, I won’t be a Roman Catholic in this lifetime. If anything, I’d become Orthodox before becoming Catholic. But why are we even talking about that because it’s not going to happen. :nope:

gotta talk about something… you keep avoiding the questions…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Don’t worry about being nice. Be charitable yes, but meaningful discussions have no need for “niceness.” Keep seeking the Truth.

:bigyikes: If you truly believe this and if anyone agrees I ask you please to read the Scripture below:

Gala:5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Just a reminder of How we who are in the Spirit are suppose to act.

 

[E.E.N.S]

ALLFORHIM:

:bigyikes: If you truly believe this and if anyone agrees I ask you please to read the Scripture below:

Gala:5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Just a reminder of How we who are in the Spirit are suppose to act.

I don’t see anything about “niceness” in there either.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Without the Catholic Church, there can’t even be a “rest of Christianity.” Without the anchor of the Pope and the 1.2 billion Catholics, the few million Protestants would soon be swallowed up into Judaism, paganism, and secularism - it’s the Catholic Church that causes Christianity to be a “major world religion.”

I agree, since Catholicism was the foundation of Christianity as we know it today.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I said the Catholic Church was the historical Church through whom we obtained the Canon of Scripture (more or less)

And I agree with you. Now what were we arguing about?

 

[E.E.N.S]

I agree, since Catholicism was the foundation of Christianity as we know it today.

Agreed. It’s just a shame that some many have split off from the Church that Christ established and no longer remain in the Fullness of Truth. But that doesn’t mean that all hope is lost, no, we have hope, we pray, and with charity help those who truly seek the Truth.