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steve-b
Guest
From what you were taught, in your formation,
Were you taught
- a messiah was coming ergo needed
- we needed a savior
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Were you taught
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Ammi
Guest
“It’s like asking me to believe gravity doesn’t apply to me. I just can not make myself believe that I’ll float”
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Ammi
Guest
But the issue is whether the Gospel is rejected and disbelieved.
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Vico
Guest
Pope Benedict XVI, at the time, Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote:Ammi:
That is precisely the point. You can only believe something if you are convinced of it. You cannot simply will yourself to believe something.
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Ammi
Guest
No. Please stay focused on the Gospel. We arent discussing Transubstantiation.
Transubstantiation can ONLY be accepted after one accepts the Gospel and seeks Baptism. Eucharist is the result of accepting the Gospel.
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thistle
Guest
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Ammi
Guest
Ok. I was mistaken. Sorry.
The OP is not Baptized, right?
The OP is not Baptized, right?
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Pattylt
Guest
Thanks for this interesting discussion! I’ll give my final thoughts and then no longer comment unless asked.
I suppose someone could brainwash themselves into a belief. I hardly think that’s what ant Christian wants of someone. I had tried the fake it till you make it school of thought and it failed.
I’ve read the Gospels and the rest of the NT several times and even participated in bible study groups. I loved many of its parts. I loved many of its messages but it never rang true for me. I understood what it was saying and asking for and while I have no problem saying, Of course, we should love our neighbor as ourselves. Of course, we should feed the hungry, welcome the stranger, share our gifts, etc. The story of Jesus, his miraculous birth, He being God on earth, and finally His resurrection, I was unable to believe it was anything other than a pious story. The death for our sins never made sense. Us needing a sacrifice for sin never made sense. His returning sooner or later never made sense. None of the theology made sense to me. It just never rang TRUE.
I’m sorry, I don’t try to bring my beliefs in here often. I’m a guest and I’m here to learn your beliefs, not mine. But you really can not believe something without believing it’s true. I’d like to think I’m not hopeless. I don’t fear Hell nor hope for heaven. To me, it’s wishful thinking and without evidence I’d accept. Your beliefs are often comforting and I admire your commitment to anti abortion and charity and eliminating the death penalty. I just can not make myself believe them.
I suppose someone could brainwash themselves into a belief. I hardly think that’s what ant Christian wants of someone. I had tried the fake it till you make it school of thought and it failed.
I’ve read the Gospels and the rest of the NT several times and even participated in bible study groups. I loved many of its parts. I loved many of its messages but it never rang true for me. I understood what it was saying and asking for and while I have no problem saying, Of course, we should love our neighbor as ourselves. Of course, we should feed the hungry, welcome the stranger, share our gifts, etc. The story of Jesus, his miraculous birth, He being God on earth, and finally His resurrection, I was unable to believe it was anything other than a pious story. The death for our sins never made sense. Us needing a sacrifice for sin never made sense. His returning sooner or later never made sense. None of the theology made sense to me. It just never rang TRUE.
I’m sorry, I don’t try to bring my beliefs in here often. I’m a guest and I’m here to learn your beliefs, not mine. But you really can not believe something without believing it’s true. I’d like to think I’m not hopeless. I don’t fear Hell nor hope for heaven. To me, it’s wishful thinking and without evidence I’d accept. Your beliefs are often comforting and I admire your commitment to anti abortion and charity and eliminating the death penalty. I just can not make myself believe them.
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Ammi
Guest
That is the Gospel… the best and most important part. The rest relies on that.
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steve-b
Guest
St Paul, had the following argument as to why we believe what we do.
HERE
If that didn’t happen we’ve been massively played. If that didn’t happen We’re the biggest fools on the planet.
Point being, lots of eye witnesses saw Jesus after He resurrected from the dead. AND they saw Him ascend back to heaven. We believe because Jesus is true
Don’t give up
AND
Don’t forget to be that MASSIVE PEST. Keep storming heaven with your prayers and requests…without stopping. It will show your perseverance in a positive way.
and maybe the illumination comes when you least expect it.
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EndTimes
Guest
Again, Merely Stating the obvious POV of an atheist/agnostic/non-Christian.
Yep… Maybe you are invincibly ignorant…
Anything else ?
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Lys
Guest
Your words are too harsh. There are many legends in the world. Some people take them seriously, but that does not mean anything special. It only means that there are people who believe something based upon insufficient evidence. No one calls them liars, or fools.
You don’t call the adherents of other religions either fools or liars. You say that they are mistaken. Maybe you say that they are gullible. But not “fools” or “liars”.
The usual phrase of “Liar, lunatic or Lord”… needs a fourth option: “legend”.
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steve-b
Guest
Paul said that we are to be the most pitied if it wasn’t true. MOST PITIED of all people… That’s pretty badsteve-b:
Your words are too harsh. There are many legends in the world. Some people take them seriously, but that does not mean anything special. It only means that there are people who believe something based upon insufficient evidence. No one calls them liars, or fools.
I kept it to what Paul said.
Nope!
That’s been debunked.
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EndTimes
Guest
Easily many 1000’s …
And not a one of his enemies ever denied His Existence nor “Miracles” barring the Resurrection
Not even Mohammed denies His Existence - for, everyone back when knew…
Whether folks accepted Him as God’s Son - is another subject
_)
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Lys
Guest
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steve-b
Guest
How so?steve-b:
Fine. But don’t expect that it is relevant for others.
Lye:
Yep!
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EndTimes
Guest
Bingo…
Which primarily goes right on back to the object-lesson shown by those whom Jesus preached to:
Some Joyfully accepted Him… and others rejected Him to the point of killing Him
)
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Lys
Guest
Because you don’t declare the adherents of those religions to be either fools or liars. They are simply considered to be mistaken, and as such their beliefs are simply “legends”.
On that “detailed explanation” we can end this dialog.
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steve-b
Guest
When I quoted Paul, Who was Paul writing to?steve-b:
Because you don’t declare the adherents of those religions to be either fools or liars. They are simply considered to be mistaken, and as such their beliefs are simply “legends”.
On your lack of detail, I say OK. Because there was no dialogue
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Lys
Guest
Indeed. I simply pointed out that the list of “liar, lunatic or Lord”, needs to be expanded to include “legend”. You said that this has been “debunked”. Now, how can a suggestion be “debunked” is beyond me. So our dialog needs to be abandoned, because you said nothing which is worth to be considered.
All the mythologies of the yore are based on the same platform, unsubstantiated beliefs. All of them are believed to be true by some people. And the same people discard the the ones held by others. There is a very good expression, which says: “Who are the people who belong to a religious sect? Answer: Everyone, who goes to the church next to yours.” There was a time, when everyone was called “infidel”, if they subscribed to a different religion.
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