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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
I like the train analogy. The engine is facts, the car faith, and feelings are the caboose. If you try to run the train backwards, you’re likely to go off the track.
In Christ,
Nancy
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In Christ,
Nancy
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kevinfraser
Guest
So you didn’t like the Curia of the day. This is a very old problem. What about the Magisterium?
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.”
-Gilbert K. Chesterton
I think you confuse tolerance with respect. To respect your non-Catholic Christian religion, I wish to treat it AS a religion:
To continue Chesterton’s reasoning, what are its tenets, and its consequences?
And accounting them how?
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ATeNumquam
Guest
Hear, hear!!!
A Te numquam separari permittas - never let me be separated from You
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PXseeker
Guest
kevinfraser said:
Kevin,
As I said many times here and elsewhere, it’s not a win/lose game. You chose to continue down a win/lose track.
I don’t play there… sorry.
John
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The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
I would have to say that a main cause is spiritual blindness.Probably or mostly inherited from their parents and piers in their lives.And followed by a certain willful ignorance to remain in their poor state.
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Annunciata
Guest
So I guess we can say it’s a combination of all here stated:
I would list fear next. By this I mean, that fear of what other members of the family or community will think…I too, was faced with this problem at first…But nothing, nothing, was going to keep me from the Truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I’m not sure of who said this, or words similar… but I think it may have been, Scott Hahn, “Start research Church History and you will find yourself in the Catholic Church”
Annunciata
I would like to add ‘spiritual blindness’ to the truth, which is probably very high on the list, (some of you have already posted this).
I would list fear next. By this I mean, that fear of what other members of the family or community will think…I too, was faced with this problem at first…But nothing, nothing, was going to keep me from the Truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I’m not sure of who said this, or words similar… but I think it may have been, Scott Hahn, “Start research Church History and you will find yourself in the Catholic Church”
Annunciata
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arso347
Guest
I believe part of the reason can be found at the starting point. Meaning, the stark difference between the Catholic Church and every church they have ever called Christian is too much for them to see past at the beginning. In that respect, it’s cultural.
The stark differences in the logistics/practical things is what I’m talking about here - No “Praise and Worship” at Mass (by their definitions), no “warm fuzzys” from those around you when you first walk in the door (usually), rituals they don’t understand (and would have to go through some admirable effort to have someone explain it), and the fact that they don’t meet other Christians every day who also claim to be Catholic.
I guess saying it’s a reason goes to far, but it’s a stumbling block. They know they love Christ, but to them, if it doesn’t look, taste, or smell Christian (by the way they were brought up) it’s not even an option. As a convert, it took me a while to get comfortable with a lot of the more practical aspects of the faith.
The stark differences in the logistics/practical things is what I’m talking about here - No “Praise and Worship” at Mass (by their definitions), no “warm fuzzys” from those around you when you first walk in the door (usually), rituals they don’t understand (and would have to go through some admirable effort to have someone explain it), and the fact that they don’t meet other Christians every day who also claim to be Catholic.
I guess saying it’s a reason goes to far, but it’s a stumbling block. They know they love Christ, but to them, if it doesn’t look, taste, or smell Christian (by the way they were brought up) it’s not even an option. As a convert, it took me a while to get comfortable with a lot of the more practical aspects of the faith.
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Contarini
Guest
:the stark difference between the Catholic Church and every church they have ever called Christian is too much for them to see past at the beginning.:
Nonsense. Most Protestants would include the Catholic Church among the “churches they have called Christian.”
Edwin
Nonsense. Most Protestants would include the Catholic Church among the “churches they have called Christian.”
Edwin
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Schabel
Guest
I agree, Nancy, and I present this analogy every year at the beginning of the CCD class I teach!I like the train analogy. The engine is facts, the car faith, and feelings are the caboose. If you try to run the train backwards, you’re likely to go off the track.
In Christ,
Nancy
However, in all fairness, we have to thank our protestant brother Josh McDowell for originating this analogy.
(I believe it was in “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”.)
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Contarini said:
I think what the poster was saying was that the many obvious differences in worship, architecture, etc. are a little overwhelming. I went to my first mass last Sunday and was amazed at the differences. From the holy water at the entrance, genuflecting, kneeling, etc. I was in a totally different world. I came from a Southern Baptist background, so there were some major differences.
Besides, I think alot of people just don’t want to change. They’re accustomed to their present surroundings and there’s nothing to compel them to change.
My 2 cents.
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Theodora
Guest
There are many who, regardless how much they are presented with the Truth, continue to resist it. I think there are hidden motives for not wanting to see the truth. I’ll bet you that the prospect of divulging sins to a priest is what holds back most people.
A good example of what I am talking about is the ongoing, intense dialogue between a Protestant and several Catholics on the Envoy Forum website. Another good example is James White and others who highly esteem their own knowledge. No sooner are they proved wrong, that’s when they will sidestep the issue, and will talk about something else, or make a real derogatory remark to where it will insult the Catholic the most: the Eucharist.
Theodora
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Annunciata
Guest
Hi Theodora,
Divulging sins is a hard for anyone…even good Catholics…but isn’t great when you hear those wonderful healing words of absolution?
“I absolve you in the Name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit”
In Christ, Annunciata
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Shibboleth
Guest
The original question speaks of “ignorance.”
First off… I know many Catholics and in most cases I have a better understanding of their religion than they do.
In addition, I have seen some posts on Luther and Lutheranism that are horribly ignorant.
All of my reasons for not belonging to the Catholic Church revolve around disagreements with some of their doctrines.
I think the Catholic Church is a noble institution and although I do see many Catholics not following the teachings of the Church – this does not drive me away. In fact as a Lutheran this does not bother me one bit – we are all sinners and we will all commit sin from the harlot to the Pope. But the harlot may enter the gates of heaven before me because her faith in Jesus and his absolute sacrifice might very well exceed mine.
I have no problem attending a Church filled with sinners because I would simply add to their number.
So am I …
Ignorant – yes on many things
Stubborn – yes on many things
Lack of a Good Example – I think we all could work to be better examples
Fear – I have the fear of God, but not of the RC
Apathy and Laziness – yes on many things
None of these things keep me from joining the Catholic Church
First off… I know many Catholics and in most cases I have a better understanding of their religion than they do.
In addition, I have seen some posts on Luther and Lutheranism that are horribly ignorant.
All of my reasons for not belonging to the Catholic Church revolve around disagreements with some of their doctrines.
I think the Catholic Church is a noble institution and although I do see many Catholics not following the teachings of the Church – this does not drive me away. In fact as a Lutheran this does not bother me one bit – we are all sinners and we will all commit sin from the harlot to the Pope. But the harlot may enter the gates of heaven before me because her faith in Jesus and his absolute sacrifice might very well exceed mine.
I have no problem attending a Church filled with sinners because I would simply add to their number.
So am I …
Ignorant – yes on many things
Stubborn – yes on many things
Lack of a Good Example – I think we all could work to be better examples
Fear – I have the fear of God, but not of the RC
Apathy and Laziness – yes on many things
None of these things keep me from joining the Catholic Church
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Theodora
Guest
Yes, I totally agree with you. But don’t you think that too many people who are not Catholic rather not want to confess to a priest and, therefore, have talked themselves into the notion that that is not what Jesus taught? Deep down, they might know it is true, but I guess it is a matter of overcoming the sin of Pride.Hi Theodora,
Divulging sins is a hard for anyone…even good Catholics…but isn’t great when you hear those wonderful healing words of absolution?
“I absolve you in the Name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit”
In Christ, Annunciata
It is absolutely a grace when you can overcome pride. But, since Christianity has been made an easy Christianity (all you have to do is take Jesus in your heart, etc. etc.), not many people give so much as a second thought about their sinful actions. This is really a big hurdle to overcome and an obstacle to conversion to the Catholic faith.
I don’t know why I think that Confession is what holds many people back. Maybe someone else will proof me wrong.
Theodora
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Ric
Guest
None of the above!
I reject the Roman Catholic church for her unbiblical teachings (we winn not get in to that here). I almost joined the Roman Catholic church after I was married in the Roman Catholic church (long story).
I will never “break down a door to any Roman Catholic church” for the fact that I do know the Roman Catholic church and her teachings!
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Annunciata
Guest
Hi Ric,
I am so sorry that somehow you have been hurt or discouraged, since you stated that you once did consider coming into the Church.
Being a convert, I am in tuned to the many diverse feelings one can have… I came to the Church first by the example of others, not because Scripture supported it or not, then started my deep study of the Faith and by His good Grace have come to see the Sacred Truths in an awesome way.So speaking for myself, I would break down the doors to get in!
Remember Faith and Grace are gifts…
I will keep you in my prayers. Love In Christ, Annunciata
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Annunciata
Guest
Hi Shibboleth,
Well, whether or not you choose to make that decision is entirely up to you. I know you are here to learn about the Faith because you told me so a few months ago when I was seriously considering leaving the Forum. It was your encouragement and that of a few others who kept me here.
I try to share the good things of the Lord that I know as a Catholic and some of the things I learned as a Protestant. Jesus’ words are always echoing in my ears:
“That they all may be one.” Love in Christ, Annunciata
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Annunciata
Guest
Hi Theodora,
Maybe, it could be… but It’s funny because I never even thought about Confession when I was contemplating coming into the Catholic Church…I just had a call , a yearning or whatever…I just wanted what I saw in my Catholic friends when they talked about and mostly practiced their faith…That’s why Example is so important and I thank Almighty God for those good friends. Love In Christ, Annunciata
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robertaf
Guest
Good Morning
As a convert, one of the greatest blessings for me was hearing Jesus’ words spoken by the Priest, “your sins are forgiven, you”.
That is one thing you never hear as a non-Catholic in quite the same way. God seems to pour out His Grace so that you have absolute assurance that you are clean.
I love it!
As a convert, one of the greatest blessings for me was hearing Jesus’ words spoken by the Priest, “your sins are forgiven, you”.
That is one thing you never hear as a non-Catholic in quite the same way. God seems to pour out His Grace so that you have absolute assurance that you are clean.
I love it!
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Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
:whacky: A Christian? You sound like a hippie. Hey dude–the summer of love is over—it’s not 1969 anymore dude.:whacky:hey , little mary. thanks for the note. i didn’t mean anyone specifically. i just mean that we christians are under orders by our Lord to love everyone, at all times, whether friend or foe. it makes it easy in deciding how to treat someone - in love!
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