What is really Pro-Life?

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mrsdizzyd said:
We certainly have a responsibility to address the social factors that lead to women seeking abortions; however, this is an issue that is separate from murder.
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We really are not disagreeing. Stating that something ought to remain legal is not saying that I think it is moral. There are things that I think are immoral that I do not think should be criminalized. Abortion is one of them. If it ought not be criminalized, then there is no point in making it illegal. I can make a more meaningful difference by advocating for social reform.

I am not saying those of you who vote republican essentially on the abortion issue alone are wrong. I once did the same thing! I just think taking a broader look at how one can meaningfully build the kingdom of God and promote real change permits that we can approach these issues differently but with equal validity. We are both fighting to prevent as many abortions as possible. We are both pro-life. We just have different perspectives on how we ought to accomplish that objective!

I genuinely believe that by promoting a culture of life through social reform people will not only have less abortions due to economic security but will also come to a greater appreciation for the dignity of life. Then abortion will not necessarily be illegal; it will be rare and hopefully obsolete. In my view, we cannot legislate culture. We have to change culture, and then the laws will reflect that culture.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
And clear also on euthanasia and assisted suicide. Are these not Pro-life issues?
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With a small “p” , sure. But “Pro Life” is the proper name for those opposed to legalized abortion, not other issues.
 
Hi Everyone,

I just want to note that I will likely not be replying to this thread (or CAF in general). I love talking to you all, and have enjoyed the conversant over the past few days/week, but I am finding Catholic Answers to be an incredible draw on my time! It’s almost become addictive, so I am cutting myself off!

It’s been fun, and may God bless you all!
 
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Ignatius64869 said:
but I am finding Catholic Answers to be an incredible draw on my time! It’s almost become addictive, so I am cutting myself off!

It’s been fun, and may God bless you all!
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Blessing to you. It is addictive but also challenges my faith and knowledge of the scriptures. Iron sharpens iron also and lets us be better soldiers for Christ defending the Catholic faith from those who want to make it a USA Catholic church only, when its the whole wide world Catholic Apostolic Church.
 
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Ignatius64869 said:
We really are not disagreeing.
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We really are disagreeing. Your position is logically inconsistent.
Ignatius64869 said:
I am not saying those of you who vote republican
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I have said nothing of my voting record. You’ve made an assumption here.
Ignatius64869 said:
We are both pro-life. We just have different perspectives on how we ought to accomplish that objective!
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I understand that you believe your position to be a pro-life position. However, vis a vis the Catholic Church your position is untenable.

See the Catechism:
“2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights."81
Ignatius64869 said:
I genuinely believe that by promoting a culture of life through social reform people will not only have less abortions due to economic security but will also come to a greater appreciation for the dignity of life.
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The more logically consistent Catholic position would be that you BOTH work on social reforms AND work for making abortion illegal.

Your position allows our society to continue state-sanctioned murder of innocent life while you work for reform. This is an either or position that is, on its face, contrary to the pro-life position.

I have to tell you that I can totally relate to what you are saying. Your position used to be my position. I came to realize that if we allow the state-sanctioned culture of death to flourish we will never be able to achieve our shared desire for an end to abortion.
 
The thing about labels like “pro-life” is that they have too many meanings that can be changed.

A communist will say capitalism is death worshipping, and viceversa.

A vegetarian will say being pro-life is not eating meat.

I would suggest refraining from labels like “pro-life” which normally hide an agenda behind the individual claiming the title, and just try to be logical about things and quit using labels as much as possible. For me, denying the right to abortion is illogical, so is denying the right to eat meat, and forbidding death penalty in the most extreme cases.
 
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mrsdizzyd said:
See the Catechism:
“2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
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I’ve started reading though the Catechism of the CC so I can fully know all that our faith consists us.

I encourage others to get the Catechism of the Catholic Church so you know what we stand on.
 
I see your point, but can be a slippery slope which leads to justification for legal abortion.
 
It seems incomplete for me. I would like to end abortions period, not just make them illegal.
 
Reading the Catechism is so essential to understanding the Catholic faith. It is the thread that helps everything hang together.

Will you be starting RCIA in the fall?
 
According to Pope John Paul II, the pro-life issue started first and foremost with the fundamental right to life and ought not be watered down with prudential matters (not that those aren’t important, but they don’t equate).

> "Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights – for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture—is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.”
 
You’ll have to talk to your priest, but I believe you may still need to go through RCIA in order to be confirmed.

Best of luck.
 
Well, I’m doing RCIA in the fall. I think it will be fruitful even though I have already read and already understand the Catechism.

Even the great St. Augustine had to be a catechumen when he came back to the church, and even he found it instructive. 🙂
 
Thinking about also being a Catechist after confirmation. My Priest said to basically take one day at a time! 🙂
 
I signed up for all email updates from both sides last year since Trump said both sides are good people. One side get a real e-mail address & other side get a different one from me.

No donation or contribution to any pro-life & pro choice groups/orgs/charities except local Catholic Bishop’s annual charity appeal since my local Parish need me to do it. Technically I gave it to pro-life 🤔

It’s interesting to see some organizations to be very passionate and at same time how they really are looking to make $$$. It’s always about money at the end of the day. Both sides complained a lot about fundraising & pay scale blah blah… it’s expensive to pay legal services & other stuffs.

It will not end at all… it’s forever war.
 
Thom18 said:
A lot of these are opinions- and here, you’re going to get a lot of people arguing that your definitions aren’t accurate. To be pro-life, in the strictest sense of the term, is to oppose abortion. Trying to turn it into a gun control and anti-death penalty issue is to go outside the bounds of the popular terminology.
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That sounds very much like we protect them in the womb, but reserve the right to shoot them when they grow up.

Sorry, I have not read all this thread.
 
Many Pro-Life activists (I myself am against abortion) only focus one this one single issue, and anything else to protect others already alive socially makes you labeled as a communist, liberal, etc… .

Sadly, this in not how Christ and our US Bishops and Pope want us to be.

We are to protect life from birth unto death.

Christ died on the cross for all humanity.
 
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Augustinian said:
With a small “p” , sure. But “Pro Life” is the proper name for those opposed to legalized abortion, not other issues.
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I’d disagree with that, opposition
to assisted suicide and euthanasia are very much Pro-life issues. The Pro-life organisations, at least in the UK, are very clear on their opposition to assisted suicide and euthanasia.

These also target the weak and vulnerable, but at the other end of life. These are Pro-life issues and they seem to be coming towards us at a very fast rate in terms of moves towards legalisation.

Like abortion, assisted suicide and euthanasia directly, willingly and intentionally take innocent life.
 
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