What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[PRmerger]

How would an agnostic, Jew or Muslim get to heaven through Jesus Christ and the Church when they don’t believe in Jesus and aren’t members of the Church?

Because Jesus isn’t just the historic Jesus who walked on earth in Palestine 2000 years ago.

Jesus is also the Eternal Logos, and, as such, anyone who knows the Truth, the Word, the Logos, knows Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

You didn’t get it. The Catholic model is not an expression of faith. Baptizing an infant is like buying fire insurance because you don’t trust God.

It is theological common sense.

If we are all “born in sin”, then unless we do something to infants, they are “in sin”, and can never enter heaven.

That’s why we baptize. So they are no longer “in sin”.

#theologicallysensible

 

[In_His_Grace]

Yes. Taunting.

I’d be careful, IHG. It is good for you to be here and in dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics.

Charitable dialogue is the fallback position here.

This statement is a peculiar one, as it implies that this is a good thing to not be able to claim to be the “one true church”.

I know that I certainly wouldn’t wish to be part of a church that didn’t believe it was the authentic church of Jesus Christ.

Now, I suppose you could say, “But there isn’t just one authentic church that Christ started”…but that would make me go…

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws....s/2014/05/doesnt_make_any_sense_anchorman.gif

for surely there is just One Head and One Body. Not One Head and Tens of Thousands of Bodies.

Right?

Yes, charitable dialogue is most excellent, but I remember the anathemas of Trent. Oh do I remember Trent! Cease calling me your separated brethren, as I would prefer to be addressed as a heretic by the Catholic Church along with Luther, Calvin and Zwingli.

In His grace

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, charitable dialogue is most excellent, but I remember the anathemas of Trent. Oh do I remember Trent! Cease calling me your separated brethren, as I would prefer to be addressed as a heretic by the Catholic Church along with Luther, Calvin and Zwingli.

In His grace

You can’t be a heretic if you’re not Catholic.

That’s our term.

 

[eazyduzit]

Yes…Jerome had opinions…but in the end he submitted to the Church:shamelesspopery.com/st-jerome-on-the-deuterocanon/

 

[Starwarsfan2]

pablope;13291537:

What! Can anyone seriously question Moses?The very foundation of the Old Testament!
Just look at the first verse of almost every chapter. It is God Himself speaking to Moses.
That would never happen in the deuterocanonicals. As I said, it’s like comparing coal to diamonds. It’s not that hard to see the difference.
I don’t work for and don’t have to please Rome as Jerome had to do.

How dare he question numbers , that is heterodox at the least .

 

[eazyduzit]

We have no idea what informed the good thief in his coming to Christ. All we know is…he came to Christ and asked for mercy. He might have known Scriptures etc…or he might not have. We don’t know.

In acknowledging Christ and asking for mercy, he comes to know him. In coming to know him, he will come to know about the Church. It will be imperative in his life to seek after communion with Christ and his Church. He will want it.

His confession of Christ is the beginning of new life for him. Same for us. As we come to know Christ we will be drawn into communion with him, which means being drawn toward his Church.
The good thief is Catholic, he is a member of the universal Church which is Christ’s Body.

As Augustine said : l do not understand in order to believe, I believe in order to understand.

 

[eazyduzit]

Actually…Eazy…this is not what the Bible says to know the truth from error.

1John 4… Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world……………6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Listening to apostolic authority…as John says.

Wow, brilliant idea. Now just one group can have absolute religious authority over all men!
No more "people of the book! Everyone must bow. Only the chosen few can hear from God!
Every mind must submit to the elite!

Well thankfully this is not what the passage in 1Jn is supposed to lead to if correctly understood, because we have just defined a cult.

 

[Porknpie]

Taunting? Not very nice? I’m 60 years old, born and raised Baptist until my recent decision to become Lutheran. No church I have ever belonged to claimed to be the “one true church”. Prove it!

In His Grace,

I have not heard a response from you on my post #567.

See below:

In His Grace, who were these men that met and discerned - led by the Holy Spirit - what was the Written Word?

Where did they meet?

In what year(s)?

What criteria did they use to discern what was and was not inspired and inerrant?

 

[Porknpie]

Taunting? Not very nice? I’m 60 years old, born and raised Baptist until my recent decision to become Lutheran. No church I have ever belonged to claimed to be the “one true church”. Prove it!

In His Grace,

Which Lutheran denomination do you belong to ? LCMS?

What made you convert from Baptist to Lutheran? Most interested in hearing this. Please share.

Baptist + Lutheran = [makes a ] Great Catholic.

 

[PRmerger]

Wow, brilliant idea. Now just one group can have absolute religious authority over all men!

This “one group” is Christ’s Body.

If you believe that multiple groups have authority over you, the you aren’t really following Christ.

For Christ is not a Head with tens of thousands of different bodies.

#absurd

We have One Head, and One Body.

 

[PRmerger]

No more "people of the book!

This is true. We are not a people of the book.

People of the book are Jews and Muslims.

Catholics are people of the Word. The Word Incarnate.

We do not glean our theology from a book, no matter how holy.

Our kerygma comes from Christ, through His Apostles, to the Church.

Everyone must bow.

Well, yes. If you don’t bow before Christ, then you are not a Christian.

Only the chosen few can hear from God!

Not sure where this comes from.

But you can be assured that it is not a correct articulation of Catholic theology.

Although it is true that only a chosen few did hear from Christ 2000 years ago. Is that what you meant?

Every mind must submit to the elite!

Well, the elite is the Body of Christ, so if you don’t submit to the elite, eazy, you can’t submit to Christ.

There is no other way for you to submit to Christ, except through submitting to His Body (which you curiously call “the elite”, but I’ll certainly condescend to use this term for His Body).

Well thankfully this is not what the passage in 1Jn is supposed to lead to if correctly understood, because we have just defined a cult.

We are all agreed here that religious cults are a bad thing.

 

[In_His_Grace]

I’m sorry I was such an *** yesterday. I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for several years until recently. Until I get clean and sober again it’s best that I stop posting or possibly delete my account. Again everyone, my apologies for yesterday.

In His Grace

 

[clem456]

The church is divided which truly does grieve my soul per John 17 but still the Gospel is being preached and the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church (Matthew 16:18).

Peace be with you.

In His Grace

This is impossible. Christ’s body cannot be divided.
If you believe Christ is the head of a body, and he is one with his body continuously through eternity, his body cannot be divided. A house divided against itself does not stand. What you are saying above is, there is division in Christ.

There is a difference between recognizing the true undivided Body of Christ on the one hand, and the human divisiveness which we all participate in.
We recognize that conflicts come about, and we recognize the differences of experience and opinion. In the Catholic Church we have this saying: “unity through diversity”. The fact that human beings are divided in their opinions does not mean the Church is divided. Human division should not divert our eyes from the reality of Christ’s undivided body.

The Church cannot be divided, or you deny the very nature of Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m sorry I was such an *** yesterday. I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for several years until recently. Until I get clean and sober again it’s best that I stop posting or possibly delete my account. Again everyone, my apologies for yesterday.

In His Grace

You are an honorable man of integrity, IHG. :flowers::flowers:

Stay here and dialogue!

And it is through the sacraments and His Grace that you can conquer this!

 

[Porknpie]

I’m sorry I was such an *** yesterday. I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for several years until recently. Until I get clean and sober again it’s best that I stop posting or possibly delete my account. Again everyone, my apologies for yesterday.

In His Grace

In His Grace,

We all have to say frequently: God have mercy on me a sinner.

For it’s through our humility in doing so that grace abounds.

Keep posting. That thought in your head to stop is being put there not by God. There need be no conflict between fighting sin and posting.

We all sin. We all fight all kinds of temptations, passions and addictions.

 

[JOE_OBERR]

Scripture teaches us Jesus came to save men from their sins, “…you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” This still begs the question for “save” is not defined here. So what does “save” mean? We have to turn to our ONLY authoritative teacher, the teacher Jesus Himself delegated his power and authority to, namely, Peter and his successors and the bishops, when in union with him.
As Pope John Paul the Great teaches us ““To save” means “to free from evil.”” (7/27/1988) Pope Paul VI teaches the same in Evangelii Nuntiandi:
“As the kernel and center of His Good News, Christ proclaims salvation, this great gift of God which is liberation from everything that oppresses man but which is above all liberation from sin and the Evil One.”
So Jesus’ Church teaches salvation is being freed from the slavery of sin which makes us sick and miserable. We say at Mass “Save us Saviour of the world for by your cross and resurrection You have set us free.” Free from what? the slavery of sin!
Protestants use “salvation” in its final context, i.e., final salvation or when one dies he is saved for he is going to heaven. THis is the man-made tradition from Luther and Calvin.

 

[JMM1957]

This is impossible. Christ’s body cannot be divided.
If you believe Christ is the head of a body, and he is one with his body continuously through eternity, his body cannot be divided. A house divided against itself does not stand. What you are saying above is, there is division in Christ.

There is a difference between recognizing the true undivided Body of Christ on the one hand, and the human divisiveness which we all participate in.
We recognize that conflicts come about, and we recognize the differences of experience and opinion. In the Catholic Church we have this saying: “unity through diversity”. The fact that human beings are divided in their opinions does not mean the Church is divided. Human division should not divert our eyes from the reality of Christ’s undivided body.

The Church cannot be divided, or you deny the very nature of Christ.

Just to add, 1 Cor. 1:10, “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no division among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose”

Also, 1 Cor. 1:13, “Is Christ divided?”

 

[JMM1957]

I’m sorry I was such an *** yesterday. I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for several years until recently. Until I get clean and sober again it’s best that I stop posting or possibly delete my account. Again everyone, my apologies for yesterday.

In His Grace

No problem, we all have crosses to carry. Hang in here with us and keep posting, I enjoy your company.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Thanks clem456, PRmerger, Porknpie, and JMM1957.

God bless all of you.