What is the origin of the Mass? Is it explained in Scripture?

[MtnDwellar]

The minimal demands for justice are prescribed by the Author of all Justice.

And NO - Christ is not literally a vine and people are not literally wolves or sheep. I replied to your questions in a snark free manner. Your snarky question will not elicit my reply.

 

[4Him]

And… Jesus said: I - Jesus - am The Bread of Life … ?

Amen, He sure was…!
1 Cor 10:3-4 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

[4Him]

4Him:

how do you know His words were literal.

Because Jesus said so and because those who heard him walked away from Him.

John 6:64 - “Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe.” Those who did not believe left Him…

1 Cor 10:3-4 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink ; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ

John 6:63-64 “it is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail . The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life”

John 16:25 “Though I have been speaking figuratively , a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

Then comparing this to other figurative language Jesus used… would He also be an actual “Vine”, is Israel really “lost sheep”, are false prophets actual “ferocious wolves”…? Should we take those literal…?

 

[4Him]

“My flesh is true food…whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

Obviously, the flesh is important.

John 6:63-64 “it is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail . The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life”

 

[4Him]

Limoncello4021:

Obviously, the flesh is important.

And for surely - at the least - Yes on His actual flesh which bled actual blood -
aka - His Actual Atonement Sacrifice on the Cross…

All who allow Jesus on the level of Spirit into Minds —> Hearts / Souls …
Have Jesus Himself as our Common Ground Communal Leaven. ?

Amen…!!! And well said…!! He so wants that relationship with us… for now, on a Spiritual level… until we go home for the real embrace He is longing for…!!!

 

[EndTimes]

Amen…!!! And well said…!! He so wants that relationship with us… for now, on a Spiritual level… until we go home for the real embrace He is longing for…!!!

And for surely - at the least - Yes on His actual flesh which bled actual blood -
aka - His Actual Atonement Sacrifice on the Cross…

All who allow Jesus on the level of Spirit into Minds —> Hearts / Souls …
Have Jesus Himself as our Common Ground Communal Leaven. ?

And the thing is… presented this way is also Scripturally and theologically - solid as a Rock…

 

[4Him]

The Sunday obligation is part of a discipline. It is not scriptural. The Church instituted the obligation as a means to keep holy the Lord’s day and also meet the minimum demands of justice.

The minimal demands for justice are prescribed by the Author of all Justice.

If it’s “not in scripture”, but “prescribed by the Author of Justice”, where did you then find the “minimum demands of Justice”, specifically… ?

 

[4Him]

EndTimes:

And for surely - at the least - Yes on His actual flesh which bled actual blood -

aka - His Actual Atonement Sacrifice on the Cross…

All who allow Jesus on the level of Spirit into Minds —> Hearts / Souls …
Have Jesus Himself as our Common Ground Communal Leaven. ?

And the thing is… presented this way is also Scripturally and theologically - solid as a Rock…

That is a great point…! thanks for sharing…!

 

[4Him]

I don’t see anywhere that you are to go directly to God for forgiveness including the Lord’s prayer which ask that we be forgiven like we forgive other. If we were only to go to God, Jesus would not have told the Apostle’s that they have the power to forgive.

Keep in mind, there are two paths for forgiveness. Most importantly from God, but we also ask for forgiveness from those we have offended.

1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Daniel 9:9 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him

Matt 6: 9-12 This is addressed directly to, ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgiven our debtors. This is a prayer directly to God…

 

[hope]

John 6:64 - “Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe .” Those who did not believe left Him…

Their unbelief does not mean that Jesus was speaking figuratively. The opposite is true. Jesus was speaking the truth to them and the could not believe it…

1 Cor 10:3-4 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink ; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ

You missed the versus before
I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea
and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. This is in reference to the Israelite’s. It can be argued that it is a foreshadowing if the Eucharist.

John 6:63-64* “it is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail . The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life”

Do you believe Jesus was saying that His Crucifixion didn’t mean anything? Of course not what this is that in order to accept what He has revealed it must be accepted spiritually. You cannot understand it if you use the “flesh”

John 16:25 “Though I have been speaking figuratively , a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

Exactly, Jesus told them. read my previous post.

Then comparing this to other figurative language Jesus used… would He also be an actual “Vine”, is Israel really “lost sheep”, are false prophets actual “ferocious wolves”…? Should we take those literal…?

I already answered this. It is plain that He is not using figurative language because He says so
“Amen, Amen” or “Verily verily” which means pay attention I am speaking the direct truth.

 

[hope]

Matt 6: 9-12 This is addressed directly to, ‘ Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our sins , as we also have forgiven our debtors. This is a prayer directly to God…

You missed
John 20:23
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
The Our Father speaks to how we are forgiven which is how we forgive others. What it doesn’t say is you confess directly to God. The Fact that Jesus gave the power to forgive sins shows that not to be true.

 

[EndTimes]

What it doesn’t say it you confess directly to God.

?

How about Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer - which begins with Praying - even confessing - directly to God?

Again, when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; they love to say their prayers standing up in synagogue and at the street-corners, for everyone to see them. I tell you this: they have their reward already.

But when you pray, go into a room by yourself, shut the door, and pray to your Father who is there in the secret place; and your Father who sees what is secret will reward you. Some witnesses add: openly.

’In your prayers do not go babbling on like the heathen, who imagine that the more they say the more likely they are to be heard. Do not imitate them. Your Father knows what your needs are before you ask him.

’This is how you should pray:

"Our Father in heaven,
Thy name be hallowed,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us the wrong we have done,
As we have forgiven those who have wronged us.
And do not bring us to the test,
But save us from the evil one."

For if you forgive others the wrongs they have done, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, then the wrongs you have done will not be forgiven by your Father.

 

[hope]

The discussion was not about prayer. It is about this statement

Jesus asked us to go directly to God for forgiveness.

I haven’t seen a scripture yet that supports it.
Your comments on prayers have nothing to do with the statement. To repeat The Our Father speaks to how we are forgiven which is how we forgive others. What it doesn’t say is you confess directly to God.

 

[EndTimes]

The discussion was not about prayer. It is about this statement

Jesus asked us to go directly to God for forgiveness.

This supports the ‘going’ directly to the Father for Forgiveness and more…

Like How else would one Go directly to the Father - other then via (Spiritual) Prayer?

Again, when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; they love to say their prayers standing up in synagogue and at the street-corners, for everyone to see them. I tell you this: they have their reward already.

But when you pray, go into a room by yourself, shut the door, and pray to your Father who is there in the secret place; and your Father who sees what is secret will reward you. Some witnesses add: openly.

’In your prayers do not go babbling on like the heathen, who imagine that the more they say the more likely they are to be heard. Do not imitate them. Your Father knows what your needs are before you ask him.

’This is how you should pray:

"Our Father in heaven,
Thy name be hallowed,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us the wrong we have done,
As we have forgiven those who have wronged us.
And do not bring us to the test,
But save us from the evil one."

For if you forgive others the wrongs they have done, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, then the wrongs you have done will not be forgiven by your Father.

 

[MrZoom]

John 6:63-64 “it is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail . The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life”

John 6:55-56

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

Two choices: either Jesus means something different by “flesh” in these two passages, or He contradicted Himself.

Since we know that He, being God, can’t contradict himself, He must mean something other than His flesh when He says “the flesh is of no avail”. I propose that he means a carnal way of thinking, as opposed to spiritual thinking.

 

[hope]

Did you not read my post? It wasn’t about prayer.
What the Our Father doesn’t say is to go directly to God. It speaks about how we are forgiven.

Like How else would one Go directly to the Father - other then via (Spiritual) Prayer?

Jesus established the telling of our sins to His priest. We call it Penance more commonly known as Confession. The way Jesus intended.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

 

[EndTimes]

Two choices:

Since this following is true - how does that fit into ‘choices’ ?

And for surely - at the least - Yes on His actual flesh which bled actual blood -
aka - His Actual Atonement Sacrifice on the Cross…

All who allow Jesus on the level of Spirit into Minds —> Hearts / Souls …
Have Jesus Himself as our Common Ground Communal Leaven. ?

JESUS … "I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE… "

*A time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. *

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

 

[EndTimes]

Jesus established the telling of our sins to His priest.

JESUS also gave us - The Our Father…

Our Father in heaven,
Thy name be hallowed,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us the wrong we have done,
As we have forgiven those who have wronged us.
And do not bring us to the test,
But save us from the evil one."

 

[Justin_Mary]

Sunday 3 May 2020

4th Sunday of Easter

Spiritual Reading

Your Second Reading from the Office of Readings:

4th Sunday of Easter

From a homily on the Gospels by Saint Gregory the Great, pope
Christ the Good Shepherd

I am the good shepherd. I know my own – by which I mean, I love them – and my own know me. In plain words: those who love me are willing to follow me, for anyone who does not love the truth has not yet come to know it.
My dear brethren, you have heard the test we pastors have to undergo. Turn now to consider how these words of our Lord imply a test for yourselves also. Ask yourselves whether you belong to his flock, whether you know him, whether the light of his truth shines in your minds. I assure you that it is not by faith that you will come to know him, but by love; not by mere conviction, but by action. John the evangelist is my authority for this statement. He tells us that anyone who claims to know God without keeping his commandments is a liar.
Consequently, the Lord immediately adds: As the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. Clearly he means that laying down his life for his sheep gives evidence of his knowledge of the Father and the Father’s knowledge of him. In other words, by the love with which he dies for his sheep he shows how greatly he loves his Father.
Again he says: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them; they follow me, and I give them eternal life. Shortly before this he had declared: If anyone enters the sheepfold through me he shall be saved; he shall go freely in and out and shall find good pasture. He will enter into a life of faith; from faith he will go out to vision, from belief to contemplation, and will graze in the good pastures of everlasting life.
So our Lord’s sheep will finally reach their grazing ground where all who follow him in simplicity of heart will feed on the green pastures of eternity. These pastures are the spiritual joys of heaven. There the elect look upon the face of God with unclouded vision and feast at the banquet of life for ever more.
Beloved brothers, let us set out for these pastures where we shall keep joyful festival with so many of our fellow citizens. May the thought of their happiness urge us on! Let us stir up our hearts, rekindle our faith, and long eagerly for what heaven has in store for us. To love thus is to be already on our way. No matter what obstacles we encounter, we must not allow them to turn us aside from the joy of that heavenly feast. Anyone who is determined to reach his destination is not deterred by the roughness of the road that leads to it. Nor must we allow the charm of success to seduce us, or we shall be like a foolish traveller who is so distracted by the pleasant meadows through which he is passing that he forgets where he is going.

 

[hope]

Why do you keep posting the same thing without acknowledging that it was answered.
I don’t know your translation but it doesn’t matter
Matthew Chapter 6

12 and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors;

It is how we should pray to God. It is a petition. It does not say anything about going to God directly only pleading with God to forgive us as we forgive others.