What is wrong with the west?

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Yes of course. Only if they listened. We wouldn’t be in this mess we call modern times.
 
Greetings, thank you for your replies. I value your opinions. I mean no offense to Catholics on these forums, I myself, I’m sure you’ve divined, am not a Catholic and have reservations on becoming one. The “spiritual dereliction” you speak of I believe has always been a crisis within the Roman Church every since Christ rebuked Peter shortly after praising him. The reason it seems this dereliction within the Church has substantially increased these latter years is simply because society is exponentially more exposed to information about the state of the Church in our day. If a priest fails his spiritual duties in some manner half way around the world from me today its possible for me to know about it the next day. We have access to multitudes of church records and events that someone living in even the 19th century couldn’t dream of. These records show us that “spiritual dereliction” among the leadership of the Roman Church has reared its ugly head from time to time throughout her existence.Spiritual dereliction within the Church has always been a battle. It ebbs and flows centered around Satan’s desperate attempts to prove his existence over God. When someone says the Catholic Church is beautiful in many ways I fear some make the mistake of equating the glitter and glamor of Catholic exuberance for the incomparable beauty of being pious towards God. Some feel awe upon entering St. Peters Cathedral, I feel awed upon witnessing a person give up their life in order to save a strangers child from drowning. Some are awed and feel the presence of God upon touring the Vatican museum and looking upon the accomplishments of man, I feel awed with Gods presence when I hear of a child asking his mother if he can take the money he had been saving for months from his allowance and birthdays and odd jobs and instead of buying the bike he wanted, buying some clothes and food for the homeless. Instead of feeling awed in the presence of all the lavish refinements and the gold and jewel encrusted bobbles displayed by the Catholic clergy in the midst of the human misery in this world, I am awed and humbled in Gods presence displayed by a child who has cancer who comforts the parents knowing she will soon die.
God be always in your heart and your heart always be for God.
 
Gratius tibi …I would say if your house IS actually built on a beach somewhere you may want to considered physically moving it, especially given the vagaries of Global Warming but my emphasis was more of a spiritual bent.
 
As good an opinion as any…has the Church changed in her Catechesis throughout the years?
 
In my opinion, the opinion of a non Catholic, which may not be much of one, It seems to me its as if Catholics are so focused on blaming a separatist entity for the ills that befall the Church that they fail to recognize the influence it has itself in producing these troubles in the first place. Its as if a man would water his lawn then march through the mud puddle he created and then blame it for being there and getting him muddy.
 
jackfitz316 said:
We all know that the faith in the west is dying. Why is it? And how can we fix it?
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I think you are looking at the problem with the wrong paradigm.

Suggest all read up on something called “Stages of Faith”. James Fowler is most accredited though I’m sure many are contributors.


As people can develop through stages of faith, so can a majority of people in a country or culture.

I think the majority of people are in what’s called Stage 3, where answers must be rational or scientific and people avoid black and white absolutes.

I think given time and opportunity to develop, there will be a shift to stage 4 where people are once again embracing God and Christ’s teachings.
 
Well, I could’ve picked like 5-7 of those but as usual, Catholics only allow 1 choice. LOL. if this was protestant I’d get to chose and add my own ANSWERS.
 
Ack! I accidentally hit none of the above. I don’t think I can change my vote. My opinion is that it is all of the above except for climate change and that many of the problems exacerbate and feed off of others.
 
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Elizabeth3 said:
My opinion is that is it all of the above except for climate change
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I would agree that climate change is probably not responsible for the weakening of the faith in the west. Climate change is all over the world, including Russia. And yet even though there is climate change in Russia, nevertheless, Russia is experiencing a resurgence of the Russian Orthodox faith. More and more churches are being built in Russia. And Orthodox Christianity is being supported by the President of Russia.
 
Yes before Vatican II I believed they talked about sin and hell more, now its about “Jesus loves you”
 
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I am converting to Orthodox Christianity. I think I meant western Christianity in general as opposed to eastern Christianity, which has suffered unconscionable horrors in the last century. Catholics ignore this and Evangelicals largely don’t care because the of the Orthodox use of icons and reverence for saints; meanwhile if Evangelicals were to face with such horrors most would convert to a point that you would have to use crowd control to control all the immediate applicants at the communist party office. Then there’s the Evangelical love affair with Israel, as though God we’re in the real estate business, particularly in regards to the Jewish people no longer being chosen in a Christian context. This idea is no older then 150 years old and no Christian would have thought this prior to 1850. You have churches embracing gay “marriage” and everything worldly in general. Another problem with western Christianity is that it has become overtly materialistic with pastors equating earthly success with divine favor, this can be true in some cases but not when the material overrides the divine. We in the West, regardless of denomination, have been blessed so abundantly that we should be grateful but instead we have abandoned God. It’s very sad. You addressed the beauty in Catholic Churches, well it’s the same as in the Orthodox Church. The beauty in these churches is meant to represent Heaven and the beauty and splendor of Heaven itself, it seems very difficult for me to envision Heaven as bland with no beauty. Beauty will save the world but with things as they are I don’t it’ll come from the west, rather, it is coming from the east. As to spiritual dereliction, I am spiritually derelict often as are every human being on this earth but when you have churches embracing what I wrote above then it becomes a problem for the entire congregation and moves from an individual problem to a societal problem and so we are where we are.
 
You must agree that the Roman Church is not as steadfast in her ways as she claims then.
 
Cool for your mom but one anecdote doesn’t negate the objective truth. It was much harder for women back then.

I’m 50 and entered the workforce in the early 90s. It was hard for me as a software developer. I can’t imagine what it was like for women back in the 50s and 60s.
 
As I see it, that’s the problem with Catholics. They’d sooner defend their one answer out of pride shown to be in error than a dozen other answers with evidence supporting their truth.
 
If you would be so kind as to walk me through some of these choices by commenting on my opinions I think I may benefit immensely from your insight.
By what frame of reference are you judging an increase in diabolic activities? Could this merely be a false perception created by an increase in available information flow? There are several statistical indicators which seem to show an overall increase of social progress among statistically normal localized setbacks.
Abortion rates do not necessarily indicate an increase in societal collapse. Any seeming increase in abortion rates may simply be a natural result of a modern decrease in child mortality rates and punitive increases for child abandonment. Statistically the tendency for a mother to abort her child now may be the result of the decrease in the viable option of outright child abandonment without expectations of any punitive results or the tempering factor of higher child mortality rates.
Outright War between large groups of peoples at any one time has actually decreased in intensity in modern times. The likelihood of any one modern nation going to war against another has declined in our times, although the potential for catastrophic destruction of larger populations has increased. War has been with man from time immemorial and doesn’t necessary indicate any increase in human decline.
Poverty as well has actually decreased overall though an increase in educational awareness may actually tend to exacerbate the psychological stressors associated with acceptance of ones own particular status. Yet this exacerbation lies not simply with worldly affairs but also with the largest Christian church seemingly equating its worldly affluence with Gods favor while at the same time hypocritically touting “blessed are the poor”.
Gay Marriage I suspect is merely a perverse return to what has always plagued mankind right after the fall. Witness Sodom and Gomorra. This may actually be a good indicator of the beginnings of returning to being like the days of old warned about in the bible. A terrible symptom of a diseased people.
I cant imagine Climate Change to be a cause of spiritual decline however how one approaches the problem of climate change may be a good indicator of an already existent spiritual depravity.
Ran out of time…will continue with contraceptives tomorrow if you would care to stay the course.
 
In the U.S. We have been raised to be independent. We decide how we want our lives to be. Many people who may have been more religious in earlier generations don’t take kindly to a religion telling them what to think and how to live.
 
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I think a bad catechesis makes people have a lack of faith and zeal.
 
I would say rather, in the U.S. we have been raised to generally cherish the individual over the social group. Other nations such as china value the social group over the individual. We have been raised to be individuals in a pseudo independent setting whereas in some other cultures the individual is given meaning only through their relationship to the culture of which they are a member. The early Roman Catholic Church actually tried to destroy this individualism by demanding and eventually becoming capable of enforcing uniform acceptance of its dogmas and doctrines alone as the sole benefactor of human salvation. The Roman Church literally tried to destroy ones free will to choose on your own what religion to worship in or even not to believe in any. You used to be in danger of literally being murdered or tortured until recantation and acceptance of the Church’s demands for your actions and beliefs. Its no wonder that a cultural resentment towards certain religions has built up over the centuries resulting in schisms and indifference among some peoples. The Church at times is its own worst enemy to bringing people to Christ. I often wonder how, when Gods own example was not to force upon anyone to accept his love, the Catholic Church came under the presumption to believe Jesus would be complicit in the act of torture or taking of another’s life in order to enforce recantation and adherence to its particular doctrines and dogmas.
 
If “Vatican II” is the demarcation point drawn between the Church before it and the Church after it as some within her claim then I’m merely asserting that you cannot claim steadfastness in your ways if those ways have changed. Do you think Vatican II changed the Church in any way?
 
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