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avflf
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Not that I know of. What do you mean by “Lucasian”? The only reference I get is on a Chair of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge.
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Charlemagne_II
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avflf
*You ask for proof? Belief does not require proof, but as I cannot accept the gods that mankind has formed in their own image as per all the “holy” books floating around I made my very own. *
Ah, then your god was made in your own image and likeness?
Have you also re-invented the wheel?
*You ask for proof? Belief does not require proof, but as I cannot accept the gods that mankind has formed in their own image as per all the “holy” books floating around I made my very own. *
Ah, then your god was made in your own image and likeness?
Have you also re-invented the wheel?
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rguntner
Guest
The Wikipedia explanations of the Fatima “miracle of the sun” might be plausible but it doesn’t explain why they occurred at that particular place and time! The little peasant children had no way of anticipating that certain natural phenomena would occur at that specific time and place. The only had their vision of the” Lady” who said that she would perform this miracle to make the unbelievers believe. Also, it would seem to me that there would be numerous people who would have walked away from this experience with severe eye damage due to staring into the sun for so long. In fact, many people were cured of blindness and other physical disabilities after the event. Only God can cause nature to perform “on command “. We believers call it a miracle!
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avflf
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No, not really, as I’m not pure energy. But you have … so you must already have a wheelavflf
*You ask for proof? Belief does not require proof, but as I cannot accept the gods that mankind has formed in their own image as per all the “holy” books floating around I made my very own. *
Ah, then your god was made in your own image and likeness?
Have you also re-invented the wheel?
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Charlemagne_II
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avflf
No, not really, as I’m not pure energy. But you have … so you must already have a wheel
I don’t have to invent anything, not even morality. But it sounds like you must be doing that too, since you don’t have any “holy books” to guide you (they also were invented by others before you came along).
I don’t envy your enormous output of creative energy. “Heavy lies the head that wears the crown.”
No, not really, as I’m not pure energy. But you have … so you must already have a wheel
I don’t have to invent anything, not even morality. But it sounds like you must be doing that too, since you don’t have any “holy books” to guide you (they also were invented by others before you came along).
I don’t envy your enormous output of creative energy. “Heavy lies the head that wears the crown.”
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Charlemagne_II
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Any discussion of proofs will tend to get nowhere so far as miracles are concerned. Those who believe are willing to believe. The skeptics cannot be won over. They would require an abracadabra miracle performed in their presence, and even then they would plead slight-of- hand or optical illusion or mass delusion.
No, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe … because the proof is in our hearts.
No, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe … because the proof is in our hearts.
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greylorn
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My concept is not an “it,” but rather a fairly comprehensive set of ideas which connect physics, creation, human soul, etc. into an integrated package. The CAF would not be an appropriate place to try to explain this stuff, because it is not intended for those who have religious beliefs that they fully accept. It is for agnostics, atheists, and those who are becoming disenchanted with the beliefs they’ve been taught— i.e. those on the cusp of disbelief. Nonetheless, various postings of mine scattered throughout the philosophy section and selectively available via the search function will give you some notion.
I appreciate your interest and hope for your patience. With any luck, my book will be published in a few months. It provides the clearest introduction to my ideas in the event you remain interested.
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initforthelulz
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Jews.
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Andy_III
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Sorry, I mean George Lucas, the author of Star Wars. The concept you described sounds very much like “the Force”. I’ve never known anyone who seriously believed in it, although I imagine that there are a fair number of convention-goers who are really caught up in the idea.
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avflf
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Presumably there were many in the crowd that saw nothing unusual. The Press is famous for sensationalizing things. We know that it was a localized event, the same as other accounts of the same phenomenon reported elsewhere at various times. There is even video footage of the more recent ones such as in 2006 and 2009 at Medjugorge.
As a Catholic one would attribute it to God, as a Ufologist one would say it was a visitation by extra-terrestrials, as an Skeptic one would discount the whole event as delusion, as a follower of Sri Baba one would say it was a sign from Vishnu or some other Hindu deity. A member of the priesthood went so far as to accuse Lucia of being delusional. Were does all this get us? As you say - nowhere. Each one will have to make up his/her mind on what to believe (there’s that word again) but no one can be absolutely sure.
Something I did not know was the controversy over the 3rd secret among the Catholic church.
Reading the article in the link below it seems that after all the lip service given to the veneration of the Virgin by the Church, it does not always follow the wishes of Mary. According to Lucia, the Virgin wanted the secret to be revealed by 1960 but the Church thought otherwise and waited 40 years to disclose, as some believe, a total forgery made up in the Vatican.
Now, is that a way to show belief in the existence of god? By ignoring his mother?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_F%C3%A1tima#Third_Secret_controversy
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alitaptap
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the air around us… just breathe them in.
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avflf
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Ahh, him… Compared to what the churches teach maybe he wasn’t that far from the mark
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Thing
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Just a few things, which may be wrong or not;
- Do you have some overall final conclusion from your post, like the CC is the false Church, or some such?
- I thought the vision at Fatima identified itself, so it was not a god of another religous system.
The children reported that the Lady had promised them that she would on 13 October reveal her identity to them[11] and provide a miracle "so that all may believe.
The three children also reported seeing a panorama of visions, including those of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of Saint Joseph blessing the people. - wiki - Don’t you think Christianity is set against the backdrop of the battle between satan and the angels of God? The first men chosen by God, the Apostles, were the first Christians to be tried and tested by satan - one fell, the leader of the Apostles denied Christ three times and the rest deserted Jesus. All but the lost one returned again and won the fight. Do you think satan will leave Christs Church alone, it would actually be the center of his attack on God in the world, no surprise then when it becomes embroiled in troubles and controversy.
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avflf
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I was making the point that this event has occurred in other parts of the world and I mused what different people would attribute it to. My main point on this forum is that there are a number of unexplained events that everyone can speculate about but that no one really knows the answer to.
The Apostles’ behavior is truly remarkable - they were Jesus closest companions for the 1 or 3 years (depending on which Gospel story one chooses) of his ministry and after witnessing all the signs and wonders that accompanied his ministry (the miracles, the transfiguration, walking on water) they run away and deny him - and incomprehensible to me.
John, also, when he saw Christ coming to him for baptism shouted out “Behold the lamb of god that taketh away the sins of the world” and maintains he is not worth to loosen his shoelaces yet, in prison, he asks if Jesus was the one or should they wait for another, when he had already heard the voice of God saying “this is my beloved son on whom I am well pleased” and saw the dove hovering over Jesus.
Mary, on the other hand, loses her child and then does not understand his remark that he was about “his father’s businesses” Helloooo, did she forget the Annunciation?
Does it make sense to you? If it does then I concede that your imagination is much greater than mine.
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donsnow
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I think that your, and other’s, comments in the vein of “that we can’t know for sure” apply only to the person saying them, not to believers, imho.
I think that your questions highlight human nature. That’s another reason I believe the Gospels are true, the people do human things like forget what the saw and heard and begin to doubt.
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Thing
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Hmm … well your religion ‘believer’ could then seem to imply ‘believe *anything *except this’ if these are your arguments.
I was not aware that this event [Fatima] has occured in other parts of the world, though.
The Apostles are interesting, and I can go even one better than you when St. Peter tries to persuade Jesus not to go to Jerusalem and Jesus says ‘get behind me satan’! Good heavens Avflf, is satan speaking through St. Peter; is satans influence so intimate in humanity that he can even enter thoughts, and even, the thoughts of men directly chosen by God.
Thankfully we know the end of this story, God has prayed for St. Peter and he will not fail, satan has been defeated already though he attempts to go out with a bang, Jesus saw him fall like a star from heaven.
At the baptism of Christ I don’t think it says that everyone heard the voice, I think it said that Jesus ‘saw’ and then it says a ‘voice said’. St. John only knew that he was waiting for someone but did not seem sure how he would know the person when he arrived, only that he would arrive.
When the child Jesus was missing at the temple he was missing for three days, which sounds kind of significant insomuch as other significant periods are measured in a set of three days; Jonas spent three days in the belly of the whale as a type of prefigurement of Christs’ three days in the grave.
Why would his mother understand his reply; Son, why hast thou done so to us? I must be about my father’s business. His business was yet another three days at his fathers work. He was missing for three days and was then found again after three days in his fathers house doing the work of the father.
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avflf
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I already admitted that your imagination is much more active than mine. Please believe the Gospels and if apologetics work for you fine, I’m happy for you. Don’t expect me to follow though.
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Thing
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I was probably fooled by your religion, I see. You say you are a ‘believer’ but you don’t believe *anything *so far; miracles, dancing suns, gospels, witness accounts for this and that and so on. You meant to say disbeliever :frighten: as your religion.
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avflf
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“Believer” means believer. I accept the concept of an original force that started the ball rolling. Human religious folklore do not impress me much and holy books impress me even less. What impresses me greatly is the gullibility of the human species.
I was probably fooled by your religion, I see. You say you are a ‘believer’ but you don’t believe *anything *so far; miracles, dancing suns, gospels, witness accounts for this and that and so on. You meant to say disbeliever :frighten: as your religion.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. ~Seneca the Younger
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Thing
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So, did the original force leave any characteristic marks on what it produced. If I squeeze reality into being - realitys’ form and quality are similar to me - its creator, si?
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