Yes, it is usually. About a third of conceptions result in the death or expulsion of the zygote/embryo/fetus naturally. This is far, far, higher than the rate of induced abortions but there is little emphasis on reducing this number by pro-lifers. Some, but nothing compared to the effort to make induced abortions unlawful.
Of course she doesn’t believe it’s murder! That’s because the abortion industry has dressed it up using selective language to minimize and disguise the evil of it! They call the baby “products of conception.” How would it be if they called it a baby? They say “terminating the pregnancy” rather than “ending the life of the baby.” How would it be if they said “ending the life of the baby?” It’s this kind of language that convinces people that abortion is a perfectly fine “choice” rather than the evil that it is.
Where I live ‘intent’ is an inherent component of a charge of ‘murder’.
I am not a believer.
A miscarriage is a ‘spontaneous abortion’. What you are calling ‘an abortion’ is ‘an induced abortion’. There would be some debate about whether a pre-implantation action is an abortion or not. If someone shot you in the heart that would be a homicide. It might or might not be murder. Or you might be a soldier on the other side in a war. Or a person with dementia who strayed on to a shooting range. Or someone pretending to be about to shoot a police officer so the officer would shoot you.
I’m familiar with the Catholic views on these things. So far, despite intense campaigning through the western world, and elsewhere, these views have persuaded insufficient people of the Catholic view with he trend on the past 50 years being very strongly in the opposite direction. While you are free of course to express your views it may be that the manner of expressing them is not helping your cause.
I have been here for years and years. I am interested in why people belief and in the details of that belief. So yes I am open to learning about Catholicism. People like me are, like Catholics, invited to take part in CAF. I do not try to discredit Catholic belief but do try to question the belief very closely. Some people here find it useful or even enjoyable to see others respond to my points. Others, I acknowledge, just wish I would go away because they prefer not to talk to people here who are not Catholics. I take a similar approach on atheist sites I hang out in and people there get really annoyed with me insisting they stick to facts when discussing religion.
Do you concede that a very early medical abortion is most unlikely to be considered ‘murder’ by anyone who does not accept, broadly, the Catholic view, even though they may be ‘pro-life’?
I am glad you’re here.
I think there could be wide agreement on this. Maximises choice.
Really? You’re here to learn about Catholicism? That’s not what I see. I see you arguing against basic Catholic beliefs.lwest:
I have been here for years and years. I am interested in why people belief and in the details of that belief. So yes I am open to learning about Catholicism. People like me are, like Catholics, invited to take part in CAF. I do not try to discredit Catholic belief but do try to question the belief very closely. Some people here find it useful or even enjoyable to see others respond to my points. Others, I acknowledge, just wish I would go away because they prefer not to talk to people here who are not Catholics. I take a similar approach on atheist sites I hang out in and people there get really annoyed with me insisting they stick to facts when discussing religion.
This is a law of the world. As Christians, especially Catholics, we are called to obey worldly laws until they conflict with God’s law.
I’m aware of that. I was referring to another poster who IS Catholic.
As I said in an earlier post, that’s because no one calls it that. If they did call it that, maybe women would understand it. And would therefore not see it as a viable “choice.”
This is the way to do it. I’m not advocating that pro-life people stand outside abortion clinics and call women murderers as they walk in the door. I’m referring to the overall “dressing up” language that pro-choice people use to minimize the evil of abortion. Calling the baby “products of conception” rather than a baby. Calling it “terminating a pregnancy” rather than “ending the life of a child.” If people called it what it is, they wouldn’t be able to justify it.
So serial killers don’t believe their actions are murder?
I’m on your side of the debate here, but this isn’t a fair comparison. Women who have abortions probably don’t think their actions are murder, but that’s because the pro-abortion movement use selective language to minimize the evil of it.
I don’t know. But I don’t think many women who have abortions see their actions that way. And interestingly most posters on CAF, and the Church in most countries, has does not seek to have women who have abortions treated as murderers and prosecuted. Typically, most posters here and most Church leaderships seek to have those who provide abortions to be criminalised.