WHat Jews Like about Christianity

[Damascus]

I dont see the reason why evangelicals are placed on a higher level in this case than Catholics. But of course, how can I since dear Valke never explained that position taken.

 

[mtk76]

Well the for the sake of their father’s line only works to me if they were obedient to God like their father’s were ie Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc… If you foresake your father (ie those that died and never reached the Promised Land and those that did evil in Gods eyes) he punishes and then is merciful and tries to bring someone back. My reading of Malachi is that Jesus is that way back and there isn’t another although if that isn’t in line with Church teaching I assent to the official Church line on that.

[SIGN]“For the sake of their fathers” i.e., an inherited place with God.[/SIGN]

 

[Valke2]

I dont see the reason why evangelicals are placed on a higher level in this case than Catholics. But of course, how can I since dear Valke never explained that position taken.

I didn’t place them on a higher level. But their (American Christian Evangelicals) financial and moral support of Israel is well known.

 

[Valke2]

Well the for the sake of their father’s line only works to me if they were obedient to God like their father’s were ie Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc… If you foresake your father (ie those that died and never reached the Promised Land and those that did evil in Gods eyes) he punishes and then is merciful and tries to bring someone back. My reading of Malachi is that Jesus is that way back and there isn’t another although if that isn’t in line with Church teaching I assent to the official Church line on that.

[SIGN]“For the sake of their fathers” i.e., an inherited place with God.[/SIGN]

But that is a misreading. THe whole point of “For the sake of their Father’s” is to demnstrate God’s love despite any flaws we might have, for our father’s sake. Obviously, the merit of our father’s is not a shield against punishment. But it is reason that Hashem keeps His covenant with us.

 

[mtk76]

Valke,
I’d be a little cautious about this. Alot of them believe that Russia, Magog, Gog, China etc is going to overrun Israel and bring about the end times. Its more a game in some ways then true support for Israel from some things I see like John Haggee.

[SIGN]I didn’t place them on a higher level. But their (American Christian Evangelicals) financial and moral support of Israel is well known.[/SIGN]

 

[meedo]

Hello,

Its great to see that Jews and Christians reconcile after the horrible attrocities of Hitler. Finally it seemed that many christians do not accept to blame modern day Jews for the murder of Jesus. But the state of Israel is good only for the Zionists. Never was good for the peopel of palestine who lived there . It is built on bieng separate from its neighbours who are overwhelmingly are arab and eastern in culture. To This day and for time to come, a grave threat for Israel would be the arabic culture it still have within. No way it can escape this unless it kills the arabs deport them or deliberately eleminate their culture. All bieng uncivilized by all means, the state of Israel ( not the Jewish faith itself) is by no means a beacon of light to the area or its neighbours .

The palestinians to this day are paying the price for a European sin. A zionist sin . A Modern day sin that occured right after the world shoudl have learned from the sin of Holocaust . Seems like the west is paying its debts from other peoples pockets.

i sincerely didnt mean to interrupt this thread. Just wanted to emphasise that the state of israel is really good for some Jews . and ONLY Jews .

Sleep well,

salam

 

[Karin]

So you think Jews don’t have a vested interest in their own people 60 years after 1/3 of them were wiped off the planet?

sure hope they do…but what does Israel have to do with that since most JEws in Israel are not religious?

I am half Jewish and I can tell you I appreciate anyone supports Israel and thus supports Jews.

I do not support Israel but I do support Jews.

 

[Evan]

If Gentiles were required to adopt the commandments, including circumcision, it would have been much more difficult for Christanity to spread beyond the Jewish people.

I think there would be a greater obstacle that could not be overcome before the Council of Nicea and maybe even beyond that. The Jewish believe in one God. I find the most remarkable thing about the early Jewish Catholics (or Israel as Paul calls them) was that they believed Jesus could be God AND not the Father. Yet they still held - in tension - the belief of a single God. This would certainly fly in the face of the Jewish monotheism. It is a very subtle and difficult teaching of the Church: One God/Three persons. It would be a stumbling block for many.

I think that had the issue of circumcision not come to the front so early (a sign of covenant that was unchangable in the minds of some) the issue of the trinity would have forced them to choose: the covenant offered by the incarnate Word of God (a blasphamy to claim Divinity) or the ancient covenant of Moses (a denial of the Divinity of Jesus).

 

[inJESUS]

Had the early christian jews succeeded within the Jewish tradition, Christanity would likely have remained just another sect of judaism and would never have spread throughout the world the way it did.

the Christain Jews had problems and created problems to the apostles and the gentile Christians because they wanted to “judaize” them. But since the apostles taught that you don’t need to be a Jew to be a Christian, Christianity spread among gentiles to the dismay of some Jewish Christians who rejected then the apostles’ teachings and which were rejected by both Jews, and Christians ( Jewish and gentiles) and which lead, historically, to the rise of Chrisitian sects and later to Islam …but that’s another topic

 

[meedo]

the Christain Jews had problems and created problems to the apostles and the gentile Christians because they wanted to “judaize” them. But since the apostles taught that you don’t need to be a Jew to be a Christian, Christianity spread among gentiles to the dismay of some Jewish Christians who rejected then the apostles’ teachings and which were rejected by both Jews, and Christians ( Jewish and gentiles) and which lead, historically, to the rise of Chrisitian sects and later to Islam …but that’s another topic

Dont barge islam into that Please. there is no proof that islam emerged out of the christian faith.

 

[Damascus]

Dont barge islam into that Please. there is no proof that islam emerged out of the christian faith.

Well, it was infulenced by heretic christians from what I recall InJesus proving on another thread quite convincingly.

 

[Damascus]

I didn’t place them on a higher level. But their (American Christian Evangelicals) financial and moral support of Israel is well known.

Thanks for making that clear as I did not want to be the one to put words into your mouth. I know money talks. Just wanted to hear it from you.

 

[inJESUS]

Dont barge islam into that Please. there is no proof that islam emerged out of the christian faith.

i already offered you online free books, you refused them as far as i remember.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Well, I was presupposing that it would require circumcision. THe abandonment of this requirment and others had a lot to do with Christanity becoming its own faith. If Gentiles were required to adopt the commandments, including circumcision, it would have been much more difficult for Christanity to spread beyond the Jewish people.

Christians are circumsized on their hearts – at Baptism. Our Rite of Baptism in the name of the Most Holy Trinity (Father, Son & Holy Spirit understood in the fashion of the Athanasian creed) has come to replace the physical circumsision of the Old Testament. Abram wasn’t a Jew but Father of Monotheism and all Monotheistic faiths and therefore only circumsision was required for Jews (or physical descendents of Abram). It was decided at the Council of Jerusalem (the first council of The Way) that Greeks (goyim) did not have to be circumsized when they came to The Way.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Dont barge islam into that Please. there is no proof that islam emerged out of the christian faith.

Islam emerged out of a heretical sect of Christianity called Arianism.It was a mixture of pan-Arabism and religion which gave rise to the Islamic machine.

 

[inJESUS]

Islam emerged out of a heretical sect of Christianity called Arianism.It was a mixture of pan-Arabism and religion which gave rise to the Islamic machine.

not only Arianism…it’s a mixture in fact…take the example of Jesus’ crucifixion. Muslims think Muhammad discovered this truth because Allah told him so…fact it, this was known before muhammad in gnostic books (Ebionitic) that believed that Jesus’ body was only an appearance and so the Messiah did not die , only his appearance died. So in gnostic terms, the Messiah was not crucified, only his appearance…it’s pure gnostic idea but most Muslims think Muhammad discovred it out Sorry Valke for the digression. Meedo if you want to discuss this topic tell me so that i give you the book that proves this to you.

 

[inJESUS]

Christians are circumsized on their hearts – at Baptism. Our Rite of Baptism in the name of the Most Holy Trinity (Father, Son & Holy Spirit understood in the fashion of the Athanasian creed) has come to replace the physical circumsision of the Old Testament. Abram wasn’t a Jew but Father of Monotheism and all Monotheistic faiths and therefore only circumsision was required for Jews (or physical descendents of Abram). It was decided at the Council of Jerusalem (the first council of The Way) that Greeks (goyim) did not have to be circumsized when they came to The Way.

circumsision was a Jewish sign that differentiates Jews from Gentiles. In Christ, there was no Jew or Greek since they became one in Christ. That is, you don’t have to be a Jew to be a Christian and Jesus saved the Jews and Gentiles so gentiles can follow Christ freely without a Jewish “mark” on them because it is Jesus who saves, not the fact of being Jew.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hello,

But the state of Israel is good only for the Zionists. Never was good for the peopel of palestine who lived there .

The palestinians to this day are paying the price for a European sin. Seems like the west is paying its debts from other peoples pockets.

the state of israel is really good for some Jews . and ONLY Jews .

/QUOTE]

Ordinary Arabs who live in Israel have more opportunity than Arabs anywhere else except for Kuwait and the Emirates.

I guess another “European sin” is the fact that all the Arabs no longer live under the heel of the Turks. So, are the Arabs ready to undo that sin and return to Turkish rule? Until the Arabs are ready to be ruled by the Turks again, they have no right to ask the Jews to be ruled by Arabs.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

circumsision was a Jewish sign that differentiates Jews from Gentiles. In Christ, there was no Jew or Greek since they became one in Christ. That is, you don’t have to be a Jew to be a Christian and Jesus saved the Jews and Gentiles so gentiles can follow Christ freely without a Jewish “mark” on them because it is Jesus who saves, not the fact of being Jew.

That’s not the only reason. The Noahide Laws of the Mosaic Law (which was abolished on Jesus’ resurrection) never prescribed that non-Jews needed to be circumsized in order to know the One True God. Only Israelites needed to do so as it was their heritage and custom.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I didn’t place them on a higher level. But their (American Christian Evangelicals) financial and moral support of Israel is well known.

That’s a double edged sword for Jews and Israelis. American Protestant Fundamentalists often support Israel because of their interpretation of the Apocalypse (Book of Revelation). A lot of them believe that in the End Times Russia will conquer Israel, that the one world government will setup its capital in Jerusalem, and that the Jews (even secular) will all convert to Christianity (thanks to Hal Lindsey and his types).