WHat Jews Like about Christianity

[inJESUS]

That’s not the only reason. The Noahide Laws of the Mosaic Law (which was abolished on Jesus’ resurrection) never prescribed that non-Jews needed to be circumsized in order to know the One True God. Only Israelites needed to do so as it was their heritage and custom.

thank you

 

[Melchior]

I can agree with the generalities but not the specifics. Jews and Christians have been arguing over the meaning of Isaiah and other prophets for millenia. I don’t think we’re going to resolve it here. As I’m on a Catholic Forum, it is understandable that you might think I’m on the fence regarding Jesus. But the truth is I’m firmly in the Jewish camp .

Nice meeting you.

Merry Christmas.

You sound like my old man did, only you seem to read the scriptures. He was sadly more of an agnostic in belief, though he grew up orthodox.

Nice meeting you too. Good Shabbos.

Mel

 

[Melchior]

Hello,

Its great to see that Jews and Christians reconcile after the horrible attrocities of Hitler. Finally it seemed that many christians do not accept to blame modern day Jews for the murder of Jesus. But the state of Israel is good only for the Zionists. Never was good for the peopel of palestine who lived there . It is built on bieng separate from its neighbours who are overwhelmingly are arab and eastern in culture. To This day and for time to come, a grave threat for Israel would be the arabic culture it still have within. No way it can escape this unless it kills the arabs deport them or deliberately eleminate their culture. All bieng uncivilized by all means, the state of Israel ( not the Jewish faith itself) is by no means a beacon of light to the area or its neighbours .

The palestinians to this day are paying the price for a European sin. A zionist sin . A Modern day sin that occured right after the world shoudl have learned from the sin of Holocaust . Seems like the west is paying its debts from other peoples pockets.

i sincerely didnt mean to interrupt this thread. Just wanted to emphasise that the state of israel is really good for some Jews . and ONLY Jews .

Sleep well,

salam

There is so much revisionist history here I don’t know where to begin. There were Arabs and Jews there before the state of Israel. Trans-Jordan was created and the other Arabs were offered the same deal as the Jews and Trans-Jordanians. If you have a problem with Israel you should have the same problem with Jordan. There was no land taken and there was no naiton known as Palestine it was a barren wasteland with various nomads and scattered farmers. The majority of “Palestinians” came into Israel after the fact from other Arab nation because it quickly became the most prosperous nation in the region. It is the mulsiim Arabs would want to kill the Jews and drive them into the sea. 12% of Israeli’s are Arabs.

The Palestinians have never been serious about peace and turned their back on every deal made. The rest of the Arab world uses them as political pawns while shutting their doors to them.

And what of the 600,000 middle eastern Jews expelled from the Arab nations when the Palestinian mandate took place? Where did you expect them to go after their brutal treatment?

How can Israel be open and “civilized” to it’s neighbors when they teach their children to strap bombs to themsleves and kill Jews who are apes and pigs? We all know what the Palestinians do and are taught. No amount of rhetoric can absolve them of the blood of innocent they have spilled. If you want Israel to stop incursion then get them to stop sending suicide bomber into Israeli cities and launching missile at civilians and using their women as human shields.

Israel gives Gaza to the Paelstinans and what do they do? They start firing missiles at Israel, and kidnap journalists ans soliders and put Hamas into power. Way to respond to an act of peace. When the Palestinians show they want peace and love their children more than they hate the Jews then the world will believe. You cannot blame a people for defending themselves. If Israel meant to wipe out the Arabs from the land they could have done it is a week. It is clear they just want peace.

 

[Melchior]

sure hope they do…but what does Israel have to do with that since most JEws in Israel are not religious?

I do not support Israel but I do support Jews.

Jews are still a people, religious or not. And there are plenty of religious Jews in Israel. Most Americans are not much more religious than Israelis. What point are you making here?

So what other nations do you self consciously reject, but still support their people? How many nations have been created in the past 20 years do you support. Why single out Israel for disdain? Have you seen the former Yugoslav republics or many African nations lately? Where Christians are being oppressed. Are you as vocal in you opposition to the right of those nations to exist?

When someone says they against a sovereign nation so selectively and it happens to be the Jewish nation it is very suspect. Are you pro-Irish but anti-Ireland? Does such a thing even make sense? Of course not. Not without some prejudice going on.

Was Israel okay when Jesus lived there? I suppose you would have supported him and the Jews living in their homeland, but only under Roman rule.

 

[Karin]

Jews are still a people, religious or not. And there are plenty of religious Jews in Israel. Most Americans are not much more religious than Israelis. What point are you making here?

So what other nations do you self consciously reject, but still support their people? How many nations have been created in the past 20 years do you support. Why single out Israel for disdain? Have you seen the former Yugoslav republics or many African nations lately? Where Christians are being oppressed. Are you as vocal in you opposition to the right of those nations to exist?

When someone says they against a sovereign nation so selectively and it happens to be the Jewish nation it is very suspect. Are you pro-Irish but anti-Ireland? Does such a thing even make sense? Of course not. Not without some prejudice going on.

Was Israel okay when Jesus lived there? I suppose you would have supported him and the Jews living in their homeland, but only under Roman rule.

whatever…
I do not support all of Israels actions…does this make me anti-semitic…NOPE…I do not have to support or be RAH-RAH about a country to support a religion or people plain and simple.

My original question in post #3 still stands…is this thread about Jews and Christianity or Israel and Christians? They are TWO seperate things but as another poster pointed out it would seem Israel and the Jews are really one in the same.

 

[Melchior]

whatever…
I do not support all of Israels actions…does this make me anti-semitic…NOPE…I do not have to support or be RAH-RAH about a country to support a religion or people plain and simple.

Then you should be more specific. I don’t support all of Israel’s or all of any countries actions for that matter. But you simply stated that you do not support Israel. Usually a buzz statement for not recognizing Israel’s right to exist.

Simple - yes. Plain - no.

If you are going to make brief, broad statements on a discussion board you should explain yourself with something other than a dismissal and “whatever”. If you are going to take pot shots, defend your position, Karin and stop acting like a 14 year old, unless you are one of course. See for some of us this is more than academic, some of us lost family, entire families to those with no regard for Jews. So trite, thoughtless, trendy political statements are offensive to us. It is this type of thoughtlesness and disregard for Jewish life that neccesitates a Jewish homeland because people like you certainly won’t be the Oskar Shindlers if, God forbid, muslims acheive their Hitlerian dreams of exterminating the Jews. How dare the Jews defend themselves. I trust your parents family was not exterminated. You don’t have to concern yourself that the world is once again full of people that share the same ideology as the Nazis, because it doesn’t effect your or your children.

Wait, let me respond for you: Whatever

 

[Melchior]

My original question in post #3 still stands…is this thread about Jews and Christianity or Israel and Christians? They are TWO seperate things but as another poster pointed out it would seem Israel and the Jews are really one in the same.

I answered that question in my first response to you. But you are obviously not interested in an answer, you just want to make a polemical point.

 

[Valke2]

I think there would be a greater obstacle that could not be overcome before the Council of Nicea and maybe even beyond that. The Jewish believe in one God. I find the most remarkable thing about the early Jewish Catholics (or Israel as Paul calls them) was that they believed Jesus could be God AND not the Father. Yet they still held - in tension - the belief of a single God. This would certainly fly in the face of the Jewish monotheism. It is a very subtle and difficult teaching of the Church: One God/Three persons. It would be a stumbling block for many.

I think that had the issue of circumcision not come to the front so early (a sign of covenant that was unchangable in the minds of some) the issue of the trinity would have forced them to choose: the covenant offered by the incarnate Word of God (a blasphamy to claim Divinity) or the ancient covenant of Moses (a denial of the Divinity of Jesus).

The issue of trinity would be a huge stumbling block for Jews, of course. But I don’t think it was too big a problem for gentile converts. They came to Christanity without the “baggage” of the Torah. Christanity spread thorugh gentile converts much more than through jewish converts.

 

[Valke2]

I just wanted to post this thread to say a few positive things about how Jews view (or perhaps should view) Christanity in a positive light. I think it is a trend and we’ll see it more clearly in the years to come.

I’ll be my usualy argumentative self on the other threads, but not here.

 

[Melchior]

The issue of trinity would be a huge stumbling block for Jews, of course. But I don’t think it was too big a problem for gentile converts. They came to Christanity without the “baggage” of the Torah. Christanity spread thorugh gentile converts much more than through jewish converts.

True enough, but it initially spread through Jewish converts, ala Christ’s disciples. Further the Apostles always went to the local synagogue in any city before engaging gentiles. In fact it was 2,000 Jews who were first converted at Pentecost. So Christian origins were distinctly Jewish. In fact the New Testament was written entirely by Jews, save one author of 2 books, Luke.

 

[inJESUS]

I just wanted to post this thread to say a few positive things about how Jews view (or perhaps should view) Christanity in a positive light. I think it is a trend and we’ll see it more clearly in the years to come.

I’ll be my usualy argumentative self on the other threads, but not here.

now am sure Jesus’ return is near

jokes apart, it’s a good thread.

 

[Brian_C]

Valke2, I understand what you are saying in your OP, but in the last paragraph, your implication is that Jews should believe in Christ, just not follow his teachings since they aren’t applicable to them. Is that a mainstream Jewish thought? I’m not questioning rejection of the Son, just acknowledgement that He IS the Son.

One way I can look at this is through the reasoning of Franz Rosenzweig (188601929). In trying to answer why God would create Judaism and then Christanity from its roots, Rosenzweig accepted that “no one comes to the Father but by the Son.” But he reasoned that since Jews were already with the Father (by being Jews), they had no need for the Son. But the gentile, who was not with the Father by any inherited right, could come to God only through the way of Jesus.

 

[Damascus]

I just wanted to post this thread to say a few positive things about how Jews view (or perhaps should view) Christanity in a positive light. I think it is a trend and we’ll see it more clearly in the years to come.

I’ll be my usualy argumentative self on the other threads, but not here.

LOL!

You really aren’t that bad Valke2.

PS- FWIW the poster who eqauated Karin(or her words) to a 14 yr old,
Not nice friend. You havent been around long enough to draw that conclusion of Karin or her posts yet and personally I think she handled it well by ignoring your comment.

I apologize Valke, I know you dont want an argumentative thread, but lets try to have at least one that isnt filled with personal attacks.

 

[Valke2]

whatever…
I do not support all of Israels actions…does this make me anti-semitic…NOPE…I do not have to support or be RAH-RAH about a country to support a religion or people plain and simple.

My original question in post #3 still stands…is this thread about Jews and Christianity or Israel and Christians? They are TWO seperate things but as another poster pointed out it would seem Israel and the Jews are really one in the same.

Jews and Christians. One of the reasons Jews should like Christians is because of their support of Israel.

 

[Melchior]

LOL!

You really aren’t that bad Valke2.

PS- FWIW the poster who eqauated Karin(or her words) to a 14 yr old,
Not nice friend. You havent been around long enough to draw that conclusion of Karin or her posts yet and personally I think she handled it well by ignoring your comment.

I apologize Valke, I know you dont want an argumentative thread, but lets try to have at least one that isnt filled with personal attacks.

Apparently you did not see her first comment to me. I gave an honest answer to her question, I said nothing offensive to her and she respond with OKAY! and an eyeroll. That is juvenile behavior. So read the whole thread before jumping on me. Unless you think her response to me was not rude and dismissive?

Plus, I have been around here for years, it’s just been a while.

 

[Valke2]

Valke2, I understand what you are saying in your OP, but in the last paragraph, your implication is that Jews should believe in Christ, just not follow his teachings since they aren’t applicable to them. Is that a mainstream Jewish thought? I’m not questioning rejection of the Son, just acknowledgement that He IS the Son.

I did not mean to imply that Jews should believe in Jesus as the Messiah or God. My point was that while Jews already have a way to God. But that before Christanity, gentiles didn’t. Now they do. As a Jew, I don’t acknowledge that he is the Son. What I do acknowledge is Christians find their way to God by acknowldging Jesus. And anything that does that, and promotes behavior that is in accordance with the Noahide Laws, is equally valid.

 

[Valke2]

LOL!

You really aren’t that bad Valke2.

You should see what I delete

 

[Valke2]

True enough, but it initially spread through Jewish converts, ala Christ’s disciples. Further the Apostles always went to the local synagogue in any city before engaging gentiles. In fact it was 2,000 Jews who were first converted at Pentecost. So Christian origins were distinctly Jewish. In fact the New Testament was written entirely by Jews, save one author of 2 books, Luke.

The concept of the Trinity does not seem to have been raised initially with the first Jewish converts. I agree Christian origins were distinctly Jewish. I think that had they not abandoned the requirement to observe all the commandments they would have stayed distinctly jewish today.

 

[Karin]

Jews and Christians. One of the reasons Jews should like Christians is because of their support of Israel.

Ah…I guess I better inform my Orthodox neighbors that I do not support Israel (well outside of my tax money going to Israel)…Hope they do not think to much less of me as a Christian

 

[Damascus]

Ah…I guess I better inform my Orthodox neighbors that I do not support Israel (well outside of my tax money going to Israel)…Hope they do not think to much less of me as a Christian

As if your tithes at the Church have never helped their cause…

I am a bit confused here. Karin raises a good point. Yet she is bashed.

I am not a happy camper that my tax money goes to Israel. I used to support Israel on top of that (thanks to Valke I do not anymore as stated in another thread)

But this thread is dandy. I intend to use it to show my evangelical brothers and sisters that they are … naive.