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Sophia
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I have problems with that. God cursed all his creation (which includes us, humans) And that does not sound like a benevolent action. It sounds like a “you are on your own and I don’t care any more”.
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Cruciferi
Guest
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Assuming that I had obtained all the Infinity Stones, I would embark on a one man war against the world governments. After achieving dominion over Earth, I would make it productive and peaceful. Then, I would depart for a time…
Assuming that I had obtained all the Infinity Stones, I would embark on a one man war against the world governments. After achieving dominion over Earth, I would make it productive and peaceful. Then, I would depart for a time…
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Latin
Guest
God bless you Sophia and God bless every readers of the CAF.Latin:
Even though you directed this question to someone else, I will take the liberty to answer - for myself. The answer is: “yes!”. If I would have the power, I would leave all the good people alone. while I would change all the bad ones to become good. Whether that would save them or not, is beyond my pay grade. Some apologists assert that “works do not count”, but I don’t agree with that.
Thank you for your post.
My answer is the same, I would make all bad people good people and I would save them, every one of them.
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I believe, this is exactly God working on as follows:
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.
It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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Again, from the fact that God has created the universe, it shows that He must also govern it; for just as the contrivances of man demand attention and guidance, so God, as a good workman, must care for His work (St. Ambrose, “De Offic. minist.”, XIII in “P.L.”, XVI, 41; St. Augustine, “In Ps.”, cxlv, n. 12, 13 in “P.L.”, XXXVII, 1892-3; Theodoret, “Deprov. orat.”, i, ii in “P.G.”, LXXXIII, 564, 581-4; Salvianus, "De gub).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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As we are not yet perfect humans and even now we have enough love and compassion (as God’s gift for us), that we would save everyone if we would have the power, how can we even consider God has less love and compassion than we have?
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ABOUT GOOD WORKS:
Our good works are very much count because God will determine our glory and position according to the outcome of the Judgment of our good works. – 1 Cor.3:12-15.
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Good works are not count for our salvation because our salvation is God’s free gift.
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God bless you Sophia and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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abucs
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May I suggest something Latin? If you are not good at English, please write less.
Would I save everyone if I was God? That is an interesting question.
Let me ask you, if you saved someone who then brought misery to people in Heaven for eternity would you think that is a good thing?
In order to have a proper answer to your question we would have to know about the mechanics in and of Heaven.
Would I save everyone if I was God? That is an interesting question.
Let me ask you, if you saved someone who then brought misery to people in Heaven for eternity would you think that is a good thing?
In order to have a proper answer to your question we would have to know about the mechanics in and of Heaven.
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abucs
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I don’t think God cursed his creation in regards to wishing humans harm and not caring about their existence.
I would think that we both would agree that this is not Catholic teaching.
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abucs
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If I offered you a gift, you have the option to refuse it, therefore one can refuse to respond positively to God’s gift. We are told Satan and many of the angels did just that.
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abucs
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but you have to first identify who the writer is speaking about. All people? It doesn’t say that.
Paul and Timothy’s letter is written : “To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi”
that is, to the Christian community of people in Philippi who have already chosen to accept the grace of Christ and therefore chosen to be partners in the gospel of Jesus.
The Hebrew word for holy means ‘apartness’. So Paul is explicitly not referring to everyone but the people in Philippi who have chosen to become partners in the gospel.
What Does The Word Holy Mean? Bible Definition Of Holy
God is holy but what exactly does the word holy mean? What does the Bible define as holy? Root Word for Holy The Hebrew word for holy is “qodesh” and
www.patheos.com
Fuller context.
Paul is asking the people to choose to listen to his words and choose to accept them and in so doing continue to choose to obey God’s will and to continue to choose to work out their salvation. Paul is asking the people who have already accepted God in Philippi to continue working out their salvation so that they will then become blameless and pure children of God.
This is saying that these people are not blameless and pure children of God at the moment but the people must make choices in doing things so that they will become blameless and pure children of God.
Also God working in someone is not an absolute possession. ‘Working in’ something is not absolute control.
If I am ‘working in’ a bank I am only there because I have been accepted into the bank and that doesn’t mean that I have full control of the bank until and unless the bank accepts to give it to me.
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Latin
Guest
God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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THE MECHANICS IN HEAVEN:
Rev.21:4; He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
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Furthermore:
Everyone enter into heaven are purified and made perfect, by the grace of God.
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So, I ask the question again:
Would you save everyone if you are God? – I would save everyone!!!..
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God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Latin
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Latin
Guest
God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.Latin:
If I offered you a gift, you have the option to refuse it, therefore one can refuse to respond positively to God’s gift. We are told Satan and many of the angels did just that.
Yes, if you offer me a gift I can refuse it, because you are Abucs not God.
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If God predestined me to Heaven from all Eternity and I would reject it, then God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.
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Just for the record:
God does NOT predestine anyone to Heaven to first see who will persevere to the end because apart from God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY would end up in hell. – Infallible teachings of the Trent. + Formal teachings of the Catholic Church.
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THE WAY GOD MAKES SURE HE DOES NEVER LOSE HIS OMNISCIENCE AND NO ONE EVER REJECT HIS CALL TO ETERNAL LIFE:
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CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.
Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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As you see above Abucs, NO ONE EVER reject God’s call to Eternal Life and THEY ARE ALL end up in Heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma.
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God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Latin
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abucs
Guest
I am not sure that we can know the mechanics of Heaven from a couple of phrases from the book of Revelation.
So for example, if there is no pain in Heaven then how does this square with other phrases that says God is sorrowful. Sorrow can be a form of pain.
So my underlying question to you remains, would you save someone if they would bring pain or sorrow to others for an eternity?
You may have to consider the possibility that those who wish to do harm to others are not allowed into Heaven. Is Satan allowed into Heaven? Would you save Satan?
If God can MAKE Satan good, why doesn’t He?
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abucs
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No the distinction is not in the being offering the gift but in the definition of the word ‘gift’. A gift can be refused. You are reading the word gift as something that cannot be refused. If you cannot refuse a gift then it is not a gift it is compulsion.
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abucs
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This assumes that God would predestine someone against their will. This is being a dictator and God is not a dictator…
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abucs
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A call to Heaven is not a forcing into Heaven. You have to accept God’s call, otherwise what would be the point of calling. "If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart’.
People have the choice to harden their heart.
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abucs
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exactly, one has to respond freely.
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abucs
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This does not say anything about not being able to refuse God’s call.
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abucs
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In a marriage both people have to choose each other. Because one party chooses the other that does not mean that the second party has no choice.
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Latin
Guest
God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.Latin:
but you have to first identify who the writer is speaking about. All people? It doesn’t say that.
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Abucs, God acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities and by cooperating He provides the power of operation to act.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
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God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.
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Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6); efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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THE REASONS WE NEED TO BE PROMPTED TO CHOOSE TO BE ALWAYS OBEDIENT.
God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance protects from to disobey salvation related graces, keeps God’s omniscience safe by making ABSOLUTELY SURE, we are (called to Eternal Life) all end up in Heaven, but not protect us from disobey other kind of graces such as actual grace which inspires us to do good works.
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So, sometimes we choose to reject actual grace etc., but the rejection of this kind of graces does not prevent us from to end up in Heaven, but negatively effects our glory and positions is Heaven.
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This is the reason we will have different rewards, glory and positions in Heaven.
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If God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would protect us from the rejection of all kinds of graces, then we would have the same rewards in Heaven.
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God bless you Abucs and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Latin
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jochoa
Guest
Hello Sophia,
Since you are attempting to criticize God’s work, you should consider resolving the greater questions of “if you were the Creator of everything, what would be your greatest creation and what are the logical means necessary to fulfill your greatest creation?” In doing so, you will find the Catholic Church has been sharing the fullness of truth all along!
In your scenario you are contradicting yourself because you recognize a being with unlimited course of action as a greater being, as more powerful and more desirable, than one with limited course of actions, yet as Creator, you would create beings with limited course of action. You should overcome your selfishness and figure out how to create beings equal in capability with you, while fulfilling the creation of the greatest world possible.
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abucs
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This is your view, not Catholic teaching.
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abucs
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Again I ask you :
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