What must I do to be saved?

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Leadee said:
Of course I know that there are explainations to get around it but to interprete Jesus as saying that Peter is the foundation of the church as opposed to He Himself is flipping things no matter how you twist the scripture to fit the logic.
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Speaking as someone who was raised Catholic, left the Catholic Church for an Evangelical Church for years and then returned home I’ll agree with you that there is a lot of scripture twisting going on but I think the agreement ends there.

Herein lies the problem with the Reformation. You say Peter is not the Rock, Catholics say Peter is the Rock. How does this issue get resolved?

Catholics can go to the Catholic Church and get an answer. Non Catholics rely on private interpretation of scripture. And what does the Bible say about private interpretation of scripture?

Catholics are one big (albeit dysfunctional) family. Protestants disagree with Catholics and disagree amongst themselves. Looking at Sacred Scripture as a whole which community sounds like the one described in scripture? Is it the one big dysfunctional family or is it the one where everyone is debating doctrine? (Hint: Read Acts 15 about the Council of Jerusalem.)

Given the choice of taking the first 1500 years of the Christian Church or the 500 years following the Reformation I’m going with the first 1500 years…

May God bless you on your journey.
 
Leadee said:
Tradition is important but not primary, the truth is primary.
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Just so we’re on the same page, you’re talking about “tradition” as customs, right?

Because if you dismiss the Catholic teaching of Sacred Tradition, then you must, by definition, dismiss the Sacred Scriptures. Why? Because it was this Sacred Tradition (the oral handing on of Jesus’ teachings to His Apostles) that provided you with the Sacred Scriptures.

[SIGN]You would not know what the Scriptures are, were it not for Sacred Tradition, Leadee.[/SIGN]
 
Tomster said:
Leadee,

Are you aware that Protestantism is a generic name for those forms of Christianity derived from the teachings (oral tradition) of those who revolted from the Catholic Church in the sixteenth century and for the principles characteristic of them?

These were chiefly:
(1) the sufficiency and supremacy of the Bible as the sole rule of faith. (a big error)

(2) the dependence of salvation solely on the merits of Christ or justification by faith alone. (another big error)

(3) predestination to Heaven or Hell. (another error)

(4) the universal priesthood of all believers as an opposition to the divine appointment of an ordained priesthood. (another error)

(5) a right to private interpretation of doctrine in general and the Bible in particular. (a major whopper)

These are just for starters.

You say the Protestant churches have minor differences. Really?

Just consider point #5 alone and, if you are really honest, you can see why Protestantism has fragmented into countless denominations all claiming to be the true Church of Christ.
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Leadee,

Give us your best shot and tell us why you believe or do not believe in the five points listed above.

Please remember, you have the only the Scriptures to fall back on.
 
Tomster said:
Re-read your your first paragraph please. Your premise is faulty. No man can claim to be totally saved while he is still breathing. Total assurance of salvation (or damnation) occurs the split second after you die.
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That’s not what the word says, it says in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
fpesce said:
The good Samaritan was an example of being a good neighbor. Are you trying to use him in another example?
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When asked by an expert in the Law what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus’ reply was, basically, ‘emulate the neighbor’, i.e. the Good Samaritan.
 
ddarko said:
Sure, progression yes. But in the end, one without the other is moot. Do you agree?

In other words, if one lived their entire life, and all they had was FAITH (in the sense of a mental belief), then they get nowhere.

God Bless 🙂
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I would agree. But I would not discount the person that hears the Word, believes, repents and gives his life to Jesus, then turns around and walks across the street and get hit by a truck and dies. That this person is going to hell because he has no works.
 
Leadee said:
Of course I know that there are explainations to get around it but to interprete Jesus as saying that Peter is the foundation of the church as opposed to He Himself is flipping things no matter how you twist the scripture to fit the logic.
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Jesus is building HIS church on St. Peter. Note also in John 21, the good Shepherd ( the risen Jesus) leaves the care of his flock to St. Peter.
 
paul_c said:
Why are you so sure that you are right and the Catholic church is wrong? And you have no idea how much I read the bible every day.

Paul wasn’t writing to the Church in Rome so that they would believe in Christ. On the Contrary. They were already believers. Here’s what Paul wrote of his purpose in Romans 1: 8 First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.
9 God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in proclaiming the gospel of his Son, that I remember you constantly,
10 always asking in my prayers that somehow by God’s will I may at last find my way clear to come to you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may share with you some spiritual gift so that you may be strengthened,
12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by one another’s faith, yours and mine.

On the contrary. I am only clarifying for you what Paul wrote because you are deceived by others into thinking that Paul says that only Faith is required to go to heaven. He never says this and I challenge you to prove that he does. Faith alone is required to enter the state of grace, but as Paul says in 1Corinthians 13, If you have faith enough to move mountains but do not have love you are nothing.

Why do you feel I rebuked your post? I simply told you the truth.without malice of any kind. Why do you feel so threatened? (this is rhetorical, not to have you answer).
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Why are you so sure you are the spokesman for the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not support your position!
 
Leadee said:
That’s not what the word says, it says in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who **believe **in the name of the Son of God,
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Do not even the demons believe, Leadee?
so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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One can “know” he has eternal life, but reject it, yes?
 
fpesce said:
The Catholic Church does not support your position!
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I think you have given us good reason to doubt that you know what the Catholic Church actually teaches, so please provide us with a Church teaching that supports your premise above.
 
PRmerger said:
Just so we’re clear: you’re not professing that the CC teaches that he’s going to hell, right?
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Ouch, no.But alot of people speaking for the Catholic church on this forum are surley advocating this stance.
 
Here’s my current understanding of salvation (please correct me if I’m wrong):
Baptism brings you into the state of grace. This can be lost later on by committing a mortal sin, but can be forgiven, bringing the sinner back into the state of grace. If one dies in the state of grace they will go to Heaven, although Purgatory is often necessary.
 
fpesce said:
The good Samaritan was an example of being a good neighbor. Are you trying to use him in another example?
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If you read the verses before, pesce, you will note that Jesus is answering a question about…

wait for it…

wait for it…😃

salvation!

So it seems that this Good Samaritan did something good, and faith was not even an equation in the picture, no? Jesus answers that one must DO something in order to be saved…👍
 
fpesce said:
Ouch, no.But alot of people speaking for the Catholic church on this forum are surley advocating this stance.
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If any Catholic claims to know who is in hell, you could correctly rebuke him. (And, please provide posts of any Catholic who has done so. You are making an unsupported claim here. Please put your money where your mouth is. Thanks.)

It is a heresy of the faith to declare that any individual is in hell, pesce. We simply do not know the demographics there.
 
Leadee said:
That’s not what the word says, it says in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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“See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us - eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.” - 1 John 2:24-26

If he is living a good Christian life, loving God and his neighbors as he should, the Christian can have confidence that God will justifiy him. He cannot, however, have absolute assurance that he will be saved precisely because he may fall into sin, depart from the faith, and remain unrepentant until death.

Now, lets get back to answering the questions I posed to you earlier shall we?
 
Leadee said:
That’s not what the word says, it says in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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" . . . so that you may know . . . " Are you aware the “you” in this phrase is plural?

John invariably uses “know” in the plural verb form, denoting that it is the community of believers who possess the factual knowledge of the aspects of the Christian faith, not the individual possessing factual certainty of his own salvation.
 
Leadee said:
That’s not what the word says, it says in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Justification is a process with beginning, middle, and end. The end of justification takes place at the final judgment. It is here that the entire life of faith and obedience is judged by God. The Scripture often speaks of God judging our works at the end time judgment to determine our eternal destiny. If the individual is in serious, unrepentant sin when he meets the judgment he will be eternally condemned. If the individual has “pleased” God by his faith and works, he will receive the eternal inheritance.

It’s just that simple and biblical too!
 
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