What must I do to be saved?

[Cruxis117]

Show me the bible verse you get that. Oh, exchuse me, not just the verse, the whole context of the page. And I will show you that you are wrong. All you have to do is go back and read my previous posts. From the BIBLE, THE CATECHISM, and the USCCB

I have more than just spouted general statements. I backed them all up with references.

Yes, but you didn’t understand the references you were quoting. You quoted them as if they supported your position, and each and every single time, others showed you otherwise. Simply read James 2. That should be rather clear in regards to how there is such a thing as useless, dead faith. It’s a faith that is alone.

 

[fpesce]

I think you have given us good reason to doubt that you know what the Catholic Church actually teaches, so please provide us with a Church teaching that supports your premise above.

Geese, PR, please go back and read my previous post from the Catechism and the other post from USCCB.

 

[ddarko]

Geese, PR, please go back and read my previous post from the Catechism and the other post from USCCB.

Actually what you presented did not teach what you want to say.

The Work of the Law and GOOD works are two different things. While works of the LAW are unnecessary for salvation, GOOD works are necessary for salvation.

God Bless

 

[fanatic1]

Galatians 3:

Intent of the Law

  15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 

  19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 

  23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

---

You interpret…

i dont know what version of the Bible you use but MINE doesn’t read anything like this and i have read a lot of others that don’t either.

and St Paul was speaking of the Mosaic laws concerning animal sacrifice, circumcision, etc, not such laws as Thou shalt not murder or commit adultery

When someone asked Jesus what he must do to be saved He said to obey the commanmdnets… He didn’t say anything about accepting Him as personal savior. Where are those words in the Bible?

 

[PRmerger]

Geese, PR,

Geese? As in these horrid creatures that leave their excrement on our driveway and won’t move out of the street when you’re driving?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Please go back and read my previous post from the Catechism and the other post from USCCB.

You stated:

Why are you so sure you are the spokesman for the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not support your position!

Give me the post #s, please, where you document what the CC teaches that is contrary to paul c’s post.

Your post above was #579, BTW, so you have to show a post subsequent to that that details what this Church teaching is that contradicts paul c.

 

[Leadee]

Fair enough.

But are we agreed that it was indeed a *religion *that codified and preserved the Scriptures for you?

Yes. It was, with the help of the Holy Spirit of course. I’m not against religion so to speak.

Yes, yet did not Christ tell us in Hebrews to obey our leaders? He sure did. But if a leader goes against His word
I believe we are to obey God first.

What “church” is this, Leadee? Where do they worship? What doctrines do they proclaim?It is the “ekklēsia”, the body of believers. They worship in spirit and in truth where ever God has them whether it be a catholic church, protestant church, huddled in fear of persecution in their homes, out in the trenches, etc… They proclaim the gospel (good news being that we are saved by grace through faith) of Christ Jesus and His Kingdom and hope that is in Him.

 

[McatholicN]

Sorry to keep asking. Can someone help me out here?

Here’s my current understanding of salvation (please correct me if I’m wrong):
Baptism brings you into the state of grace. This can be lost later on by committing a mortal sin, but can be forgiven, bringing the sinner back into the state of grace. If one dies in the state of grace they will go to Heaven, although Purgatory is often necessary.

 

[paul_c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul c
Why are you so sure that you are right and the Catholic church is wrong? And you have no idea how much I read the bible every day.

Only the bishops are official spokeseman for the Catholic Church but I am quite confident that I characterized Catholic teaching properly. If I hadn’t, the Catholic apologists on this website would have been quick to correct me. As it is, they challenged you to prove me wrong. You can be initially justified by faith alone but that is not generally enough to get to heaven (the situation where it might be is if you died immediately following baptism).

 

[Leadee]

Ok. HOW ON EARTH do you know that the foundation is “grace through faith in Christ alone or it is not”?

You honestly don’t make logical sense. How did you go from the Resurrection of Christ to the above? What rules of logical inference did you use? What are the ground to go there?

It’s really quite simple. A foundation is that which all else is built upon. In Mt 16:15-18 Jesus said - “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

The foundation is the gospel of Jesus Christ. You either believe that Jesus is who he says he is, that he paid the penalty for your sins and freely offers it to you (it’s called grace) or you don’t. Is there a better explaination of what “good news” means? If this is not the foundation of the church, what is then? If Jesus is the promised Messiah (Christ, Annointed One) Son of God as He says He is then how can those who put their faith in Him not be saved? It seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[paul_c]

Originally Posted by paul c
Why are you so sure that you are right and the Catholic church is wrong? And you have no idea how much I read the bible every day.

How does this statement contradict what I said in any way? As I said, faith alone is required to enter into the state of grace. This is not done by works of the law. But as this statement also points out, you still have the responsibility to love your neighbors and to do the will of God.

 

[Leadee]

Leadee,

Are you aware that no one even heard of the Protestant churches in Apostolic times? They just didn’t exist.
Yes, I am aware of that. Man gave the church all the different names(catholic, protestant, Apostolic, Anglican, whatever…) but in the bible, the “church” is just a word for “ekklēsia” which means assembly. Unless you are saying that the only christians are catholic then I don’t understand why you asked that question.

 

[Leadee]

Ok. HOW ON EARTH do you know that the foundation is “grace through faith in Christ alone or it is not”?

The original subject is What must I do to be saved, right? If we are not saved by grace through faith in Christ, can you please explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2:1-10 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[paul_c]

ddarko;8199870:

Ok. HOW ON EARTH do you know that the foundation is “grace through faith in Christ alone or it is not”?

You honestly don’t make logical sense. How did you go from the Resurrection of Christ to the above? What rules of logical inference did you use? What are the ground to go there? ]/quote]

It’s really quite simple. A foundation is that which all else is built upon. In Mt 16:15-18 Jesus said - “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

The foundation is the gospel of Jesus Christ. You either believe that Jesus is who he says he is, that he paid the penalty for your sins and freely offers it to you (it’s called grace) or you don’t. Is there a better explaination of what “good news” means? If this is not the foundation of the church, what is then? If Jesus is the promised Messiah (Christ, Annointed One) Son of God as He says He is then how can those who put their faith in Him not be saved? It seems like a no brainer to me.

Think about this a minute. You are aware thatt Peter means Rock in Greek, right? And you are also aware that he was actually called Cephas, which is also rock in Aramaic right? So isn’t it pretty obvious that when Jesus said: You are rock and on this rock I will built my church, he meant that Peter would lead his church. Particularly when he followed this up by giving Peter the keys to the kingdom and heaven with the power to bind and loose.

But although Peter was made the leader of the Church when Jesus ascended into heaven, that doesn’t mean that the church wasn’t founded on Jesus. It was. And sure, Jesus offers to take away our sins in baptism. This is also a fundamental truth. But you have extended this to mean that believing that Jesus will save you is all that is required to enter heaven and the implication of this statement is that you can sin with impunity. This is not biblical. In fact, Jesus called us to follow him… He also commanded us to love God and neighbor as he loved us.

 

[paul_c]

ddarko;8199870:

Ok. HOW ON EARTH do you know that the foundation is “grace through faith in Christ alone or it is not”?

The original subject is What must I do to be saved, right? If we are not saved by grace through faith in Christ, can you please explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2:1-10 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Leadee, let me explain Catholic teaching on salvation once again, while referencing your quote.

We enter the state of grace by being baptized. As described in Ephesians, grace is freely given to all those that ask for it. There are no works required to enter the state of grace. But once we have been reborn through baptism, we must do the works that God prepared in advance for us to stay in the state of grace, as described in Ephesians 2: 10 above

 

[ddarko]

The original subject is What must I do to be saved, right? If we are not saved by grace through faith in Christ, can you please explain this passage to me?

Ephesians 2:1-10 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Leadee,

You just gave me a very big quote from the Bible. But that proves nothing.

I am asking, WHAT IS YOUR FOUNDATION to believe that the BIBLE is TRULY the WORD OF GOD? How do you go from Resurrection of Christ TO the BIBLE or Christianity?

Because so far, you have given none. You just repeat biblical quote after the other.

Your problem is that you want to believe in Scripture alone. But that has no rational foundation. If you approached this problem rationally, you would know that Scripture Alone is unacceptable. You have to interpret Scripture and Tradition together. BOTH on equal footing.

Instead, you keep repeating Biblical quote after quote. So please, answer the question. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God?

And in case you still haven’t gotten it, providing quotes from the Bible does not give valid REASON to believe it is the WORD of GOD.

God Bless

 

[paul_c]

Originally Posted by Tomster
Leadee,

Actually, historically, there was only one Christian church and that was the Catholic (universal) church. In the 1500s men like Luther,Calvin, Zwigli and Henry VIII decided that they didn’t like what the Catholic Church was teaching and created their own version of Christianity. These churches were called Protestant because they were Protesting the Church’s teachings. These new churches, born of protest, predictably had additional protests within them, resulting in splintering within the first genearation. If someone didn’t agree with the doctrines of the church they were in, they simply choose another that was more to their liking or perhaps created their own churches and so it has continued up to current times.

The Catholic church was founded by Chrst through the Apostles. All protestant churches have their own human founders, whether it be Martin Luther (the Lutherans), Henry VIII (Anglicans) or Joseph Smith (the Mormons). or Jim Jones, who led his followers to mass suicide in the name of Christ. Their credibility is obviously far less than the Catholic Church, which was commissioned by Jesus. (see Matthew 28: 18-20) .

Do your self a favor, Research the early Church fathers. You will see that they were Catholic and that the doctrines of the faith are intact today. I recommend Eusebius, History of the Church written in 310 AD. You can find it online here: newadvent.org/fathers/2501.htm

 

[PRmerger]

Leadee:
Leadee, could you please not nest your responses? When one tries to quote responses that are nested, all that appears is the above. Thanks.

Also, could you please respond if the wedding you attended of a divorced Catholic was officiated by a Catholic priest?

 

[paul_c]

Leadee,

You just gave me a very big quote from the Bible. But that proves nothing.

I am asking, WHAT IS YOUR FOUNDATION to believe that the BIBLE is TRULY the WORD OF GOD? How do you go from Resurrection of Christ TO the BIBLE or Christianity?

Because so far, you have given none. You just repeat biblical quote after the other.

Your problem is that you want to believe in Scripture alone. But that has no rational foundation. If you approached this problem rationally, you would know that Scripture Alone is unacceptable. You have to interpret Scripture and Tradition together. BOTH on equal footing.

Instead, you keep repeating Biblical quote after quote. So please, answer the question. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God?

And in case you still haven’t gotten it, providing quotes from the Bible does not give valid REASON to believe it is the WORD of GOD.

God Bless

Ddarko,
Cut to the chase: the reason that we know the Bible is the word of God is because it was declared as such by Pope Damasus in 382AD. Protestants believe in the truth of the bible as an article of faith but few go back to understand how it was written, compiled and canonized. If they thought about it, they would have to recognize that when they follow the bible, they are using a Catholic resource, put together for teaching and liturgical uses by the early church fathers

 

[Leadee]

Thank you for explaining so well what the church believes and explaining the sacraments as well. It’s quite long list of to dos PHEW! While I still do not understand how it is not in conflict with what other scriptures say about salvation (especally Eph 2:1-10), I can see more clearly where you are coming from.

I do agree that sayng - “Ask Jesus into your heart.” or “Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.” certainly isn’t the biblical answer. It’s far to vague.

 

[PRmerger]

Sorry to keep asking. Can someone help me out here?

Here’s my current understanding of salvation (please correct me if I’m wrong):
Baptism brings you into the state of grace. This can be lost later on by committing a mortal sin, but can be forgiven, bringing the sinner back into the state of grace. If one dies in the state of grace they will go to Heaven, although Purgatory is often necessary.

What you say is correct, but not complete.

We are saved through grace, through faith, working in love.

We are saved by repentance and by the atoning work of Christ.

We are saved by the Sacraments.

We are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)