What must I do to be saved?

[ddarko]

Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shall be S-A-V-E-D! Acts 16:31
Believe that He died for your sins, was buried and rose again the 3rd day! 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Paul says that his is THE gospel which we have received, and it which we stand and BY WHICH WE ARE S-A-V-E-D!
Paul says that IN WHOM WE TRUSTED, after HEARING THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION, ALSO AFTER WE BELIEVED WE WERE
S-E-A-L-E-D WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. This SEAL is until the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13,14.
Paul also writes that: We [believers] are COMPLETE IN HIM. Col. 2:10
Paul also writes that: HE HATH FORGIVEN US A-L-L TREASPASSES. Col. 2:13
The word “complete” is pleroo and means to be filled to the absolute fullest.
Strong’s Greek Dictionary
4137. πληροω pleroo
Search for G4137 in KJVSL
πληροω pleroo play-ro’-o
from 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:—accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

See Greek 4134

So what made you believe that St. Paul who was given apostolic Authority by the Apostles has not erred and that you should listen to him BUT the Apostles after that have erred and not worthy of listening to?

Also, I ask the same question I asked Leadee from you. All you have above is a one of many possible logically consistent interpretations of Scripture to make it look like Faith apart from works leads to salvation. BUT logical consistency is not an indicator that is is the true interpretation.

Therefore, what makes you think you have the right interpretation? What is your authority?

God Bless

 

[Jim_Dandy]

There are many verses that say that we are not justified by works so these scriptures would be a contradiction and we know that God can’t contradict Himself. The scriptures you mentioned must be read in the full context of the passage in order to understand the message. They are not talking about earning salvation. for example, in James he’s talking about true or false faith. In James 2:14-20 he’s using the example of someone who says he has faith and says what use is it if someone says he has faith if there are no good works. In vs 21-26 he’s giving an example of someone from the old testiment who exhibited true faith. The justification he’s talking about in vs 24 is whether he is justified in claiming to be a believer. This greek word dikaioō means to be made righteous but it can also mean to show or exhibit.

How do you know your interpretation is the right one? IOW, how do you know what James meant when he wrote his letter?

The bible was written by men that were inspired by God.

How do you know this?

It’s very sad to me that you exclude those outside of the church. Jesus came to save the lost. God’s Word is not soley for “catholics”.

How do you know it’s God’s Word? We would have no way of knowing that without the Authority of the Catholic Church – who wrote the NT – declaring that all 73 books of the Bible are the Word of God. Yours is an incomplete Bible; you have some of His Word.

Fact is, the New Testament was not written for outsiders. For 1500 years, it was in the possession of the Church who wrote it. Martin Luther appropriated it, said the Bible was the only rule for faith and morals, and the newly invented printing press made it available to the world. Protestants have been misinterpreting it ever since.

What I think I’m hearing is that the church is infalable.

Infallible when teaching faith and morals, yes.

God gave us His one and only Son, who is the Word. Jesus started the church and is the head of the church. The church is not an entity in itself. It’s nothing without Jesus.

Well, duh, no kidding? Jesus is the head of the Church. The successors of Peter are His deputies.

While God says there will always be a remenant of believers, where does He guarentee that the church will always teach the truth? It may be in the bible but I don’t know where. The church has certainly gotten off the mark in the past and has not always taught truth.

Prove your claims.

Read the 14th, 15th, and 16th chapers of John, keeping in mind that Jesus made these promises to His Apostles, leaders of His Church. He promised to remain with His Church until ***the end of the world ***(Mt 28:20 KJV), and in John’s Gospel He promises to send the Spirit to remain with them, to guide them to all truth always. The Church is not a human institution – she is the work of the God-Man, Jesus Christ. When we speak of the Church’s infallibility, we are referring to the infallibility of the Holy Spirit who guides her.

The heart of the good news is that Jesus Christ accomplished for me what I cannot so I am putting my faith and trust in Him first.

You say, “Christ I trust you, but not the Church you provided for my salvation – even though you said that you and the Church are one and the same (Acts 9:1-5), and that anyone who rejects the Church rejects you and the Father who sent you (Luke 10:16)” :whacky:

Jim Dandy

 

[Leadee]

I also like to include Saint Paul, in Romans 2:5-8

By your stubbornness and impenitent heart,you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

There’s not question that we will be judged on our works but our sins have been covered by the blood of Christ. Those who selfishly disobey the truth by denying Christ will suffer the wrath of God. It’s not talking about those who are His children by faith. He is talking about unrepentent hearts, not beleivers. This says nothing about having to work for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Philthy]

There are many verses that say we are not justified by our own works and one that says we are. It can’t be both ways.

Wrong. There are different works and different means of justification - you continue to confuse them.

That’s called a contradiction and God can’t contradict himself.

There is no contradiction: there is only your misinterpretation.

If we have to keep working for our salvation then christianity is no different from any other religion.

I disagree

I have to believe that Jesus is much larger then just a temporary fix.

It has nothing to do with Christ’s largeness, that is simply an irrational, unbiblical criterion that you have introduced into your reasoning that leads you down the wrong road.

James 2:24 has to be read in context of the whole passage.

The context of James 2 is salvation, it’s plainly obvious to anyone who is reading it. The context of the faith/works discussion is stated in verse 14:

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

He is talking about faith without works. He is not dealing with our initial salvation, but is dealing with our ongoing salvation (ie following Christ). Such faith - if it does not have works - does not get you to Heaven.

He’s talking about someone who’s is saying that they are in the faith. James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, “Faith without works is dead,” (James 2:20). He’s saying that if you are claiming to be a christian, you’d better have the works to back it up. You can’t just say you believe in Jesus, you have to make Him Lord of your life and if you do that you will bear good fruit.

Quite correct! And if you don’t back it up, or if you discontinue backing it up, such faith will no longer save you. He’s quite clear. In summary: With respect to our ongoing salvation (ie remaining in a state of grace, remaining a branch of the Vine), faith of any kind that does not have works will not save you. Therefore, faith alone - that is, faith without works - will not save you.

Blessings

 

[Leadee]

This is a classic example of Sola Scriptura ! Cherry pick what you want from the Bible and omit what does not fit ones personal interpretation or ideology.
Lets create a Christ from the Bible i can agree with!

Matthew

All scripture is important and that’s why you can’t base theology on just a few. It must all line up and not contradict. If there’s contradiction then it’s being misunderstood.

I totally agree that there can only be on Jesus Christ. If it’s not the Jesus from the bible then I am confused.

 

[patricius79]

“Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior,” or “Ask Jesus into your heart” isn’t the biblical answer.
…

• I must do the will of God the Father. Matthew 7:21
• I must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, 1 Timothy 6:14, and others.
• I must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27. Phil 1:29, and others.

the suffering part is the hardest. yet even that is easy if done out of love

 

[Leadee]

No, "we"aren’t, because we are not completely misunderstanding what the word “justified” means. First, the “to be” verb does not appear in the Scripture, in the Greek Scripture. They has the form, but Paul doesn’t use it here. Second, the word is: dikaioo which means:

**1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

1. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
2. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be**

So,here: a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law, Paul is saying a man makes himself righteous, exhibits righteousness, or declares his righteousness, in ways other than: circumcision, ceremonial washing, sacrificing animals, paying tithes, eating only certain foods… These are “works of the Law” which Paul is now carefully distinguishing from the “good works” he has just said are the basis of God’s reward only a short time before:

By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: 7eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

It is patently clear that Paul completely agrees and is restating what Jesus told us in the aforementioned passage from Matthew: **a man is justified before God by his works: **feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, caring for the sick, visiting the imprisoned.

Don’t bother and you go to hell. Do good here and you are rewarded. It’s pretty simple.

You apparently have no idea what the whole letter to the Romans was about or to whom it was written or why.

This is what Paul says in Romans:

• no one has an excuse to be a sinner because he can know by his own innate sense what is good and what is not and choose to do the good.
• that Jesus came for all
• that judgement of God is based on what you do not who you are ( born a Jew)
• that the external trappings of religion do not have anything to do with true salvation
• that we are weak in our flesh and there is a struggle between our desire for the good and our tendency to sin
• that with Grace we can rise very far above our own nature and fulfill the destiny of all men to become like Jesus Christ.

This is what Paul says. Read Romans from beginning to end.

I’ve read and studied it. Perhaps I will read it again, and I’ll try to use the glasses that you are wearing (catholic theology) so I can better understand where you’re coming from. In the meantime, I will trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross and follow and serve Him, the King.

God bless you.

 

[Tomster]

All scripture is important and that’s why you can’t base theology on just a few. It must all line up and not contradict. If there’s contradiction then it’s being misunderstood.

I totally agree that there can only be on Jesus Christ. If it’s not the Jesus from the bible then I am confused.

As has been shown to you Leadee, in your own personal brand of theology you have failed to “line up” all of the relevant passages pertaining to the topic at hand.

 

[Leadee]

Your questioin -The only question which remains is by whom, exactly, are you led?
I like to believe that I am led by the Holy Spirit and that my life is a process of working out my salvation which means growing the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Galatians passage that you quote is talking about those who profess to be believers but are not living like they are. Chances are, they are not then. We are called to examine ourselves to determine the motive of our hearts. Are we serving the Lord or are we serving self.

You’re right, I am going around and around in circles so I will follow your advice and stop. The way of salvation is clearly not a narrow subject.

I actually have been spending more time in prayer regarding this matter and have been doing a lot of reflecting and will continue to do so. There’s nothing I love to do more then learn about Jesus so this is easy for me I hope the same for you because we can never know enough about our King and His Kingdom. If we think we know it that’s pride and we know what comes after pride.

May God bless you with a fresh new revelation of His mercy, grace and love each day as you walk with Him,
Lea

 

[PRmerger]

Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shall be S-A-V-E-D! Acts 16:31
Believe that He died for your sins, was buried and rose again the 3rd day! 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Paul says that his is THE gospel which we have received, and it which we stand and BY WHICH WE ARE S-A-V-E-D!
Paul says that IN WHOM WE TRUSTED, after HEARING THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION, ALSO AFTER WE BELIEVED WE WERE
S-E-A-L-E-D WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. This SEAL is until the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13,14.
Paul also writes that: We [believers] are COMPLETE IN HIM. Col. 2:10
Paul also writes that: HE HATH FORGIVEN US A-L-L TREASPASSES. Col. 2:13
The word “complete” is pleroo and means to be filled to the absolute fullest.
Strong’s Greek Dictionary
4137. πληροω pleroo
Search for G4137 in KJVSL
πληροω pleroo play-ro’-o
from 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:—accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

See Greek 4134

Yet you have not provided a single verse that says that 1 Peter 3:21 is not an essential doctrine. Nor that Malachi 1:11 isn’t either.

How does a Christian know, from the Bible alone, that a verse is not an essential verse?

 

[Leadee]

The issue here is not Theology Leadee. That is what I am telling you here. At least, you can’t resolve the issue merely from Theology as to who is right.

You have one Theological interpretation and we have another. That is my point to you. The logical consistency of either position is not sufficient to guarantee that one has the true interpretation.

So you have to use history to understand what to do. You have to look at the early Church and see how and WHO they came to believe.

That is what you and the Protestants have not done.

Please answer Jim’s post #781 too.

God Bless

That’s fair enough. Are catholics allowed to even question the catholic doctrine? I know that in my present church, I am not only allowed to question something when I doesn’t seem to line up with all of scripture, I am encouraged to seek answers and ask the Holy Spirit to shed light on it.

 

[davidmlamb]

James 2:24 has to be read in context of the whole passage. He’s talking about someone who’s is saying that they are in the faith. James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, “Faith without works is dead,” (James 2:20). He’s saying that if you are claiming to be a christian, you’d better have the works to back it up. You can’t just say you believe in Jesus, you have to make Him Lord of your life and if you do that you will bear good fruit.

But that is EXACTLY what the protestant dogma of sola fide say’s! That is EXACTLY what you are saying Leadee. If you bear no good fruit you become a withered branch which are bundled up and thrown into the fire. The correct biblical exegesis regarding faith, grace, works and justification are unambiguously Catholic! The entire 2nd chapter of James 2 is summed up in James 2:24. WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY OUR WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE! Grace empowers us to do the works God has called us to do. That is what Ephesians 2:8-10 tells us. Hence we are saved by grace through faith and it is not by our own power but the power of God working in us to do his will (Philippians 2:12-14).

However, we must cooperate with grace. God does not force us to act righteous, HE EMPOWERS US TO ACT RIGHTEOUS BY VIRTUE OF GRACE! As I pointed out before Leadee, not one passage in scripture tells us we will be judged by our faith but by our WORKS! Works is what justifies us! Works was the difference between the sheep and the goats (Matt 25:31-46)! Works was the difference between the men entrusted with talents (Matt 25:14-30)!

Jesus glorious death and resurrection did not simply excuse us from our sins and sinfulness, it took them away! It took their power away by empowering us to put on the righteousness of Christ! Putting on the righteousness of Christ means we our empowered to walk as Jesus did!

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love* is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:3- ***

Catholic believers are not trying to earn their way into heaven, they are walking as Jesus walked, being baptized into Christ they have clothed themselves with Christ (Gal 3:26-27). Catholics are walking in submission to Christ who is our Lord. To deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Christ means we work for Christ. The gift of God is grace and salvation is the reward! Salvation is not earned; it is rewarded for those who have been faithful to the grace given them to do that which God has called us to do!

God “will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. Romans 2:8-11

So Leadee, a sinners prayer and faith in Jesus is NOT enough (but a beginning) to be saved, we must be converted, die to self, submit our lives to God doing good and seeking glory and honor for the rest of our lives. And at judgment if we have been faithful we will be REWARDED the crown of life. That is why John wrote in Revelation, “Let no one take thy crown.” If the crown was guaranteed regardless of how we lived our lives there would be no need for John to write this.

I know you are a good person Leadee and that you are seeking God. But you need to realize that God is revealing himself more fully to you by virtue of this website. By virtue of our witness that testifies to the truth of the scriptures. You have found Christ Leadee and now you must follow Christ, follow him to the Ark of His New Covenant, the Ark is the Church and the fullness of his grace is received in the SACRAMENTS which implies Christ SACRIFICE for salvation. Christ body is the CHURCH, not denominations but the CHURCH! His Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic!

The Church is prefigured in Noah’s Ark. Those who came into the Ark were saved. The Church is prefigured in the Passover. The blood of the Lamb was placed on the doorpost of the House of the Israelites and all those who came into the house, were safe from the Angel of death. even the Egyptians who sought refuge out of the fear of the Lord. The blood of Jesus for Salvation is found on the Church and administered through the sacraments. That is what the Last Supper was all about, how to receive the sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins. During the Passover those in the house covered with the blood of the lamb ate bitter herbs, bread AND THE LAMB whose blood was upon the doorpost! A foreshadowing of the New Covenant and the Church. The Last Supper was the celebration of the Passover. The entire Bible leads up to the sacraments and in particular Christ presence in the Eucharist, the Holy of Holies There is no escaping it Leadee.

The Bible say’

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

That Leadee is BIBLE ONLY!

Peace,
David

 

[Tomster]

That’s fair enough. Are catholics allowed to even question the catholic doctrine? I know that in my present church, I am not only allowed to question something when I doesn’t seem to line up with all of scripture, I am encouraged to seek answers and ask the Holy Spirit to shed light on it.

Catholics have been asking questions about doctrine for over two thousand years Leadee. This site is just one example.

Didn’t Jesus say something about seek and ye shall find and to ask and it shall be given to you?

 

[pablope]

Your questioin -The only question which remains is by whom, exactly, are you led?
I like to believe that I am led by the Holy Spirit and that my life is a process of working out my salvation which means growing the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You’re right, I am going around and around in circles so I will follow your advice and stop. The way of salvation is clearly not a narrow subject.

I actually have been spending more time in prayer regarding this matter and have been doing a lot of reflecting and will continue to do so.

May God bless you with a fresh new revelation of His mercy, grace and love each day as you walk with Him,
Lea

Leadee…this may help you understand better…this journal compares protestant and catholic understandings of the subject at hand…chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/salvation.pdf

The authors are former protestants…who espoused the same beliefs as you before. Hope this helps you in your understanding…and so that you are not going around in circles.

God bless.

 

[ddarko]

That’s fair enough. Are catholics allowed to even question the catholic doctrine? I know that in my present church, I am not only allowed to question something when I doesn’t seem to line up with all of scripture, I am encouraged to seek answers and ask the Holy Spirit to shed light on it.

Of course you can seek answers. But it is within the boundaries of teaching that the church decided on.

So it’s again like the early church. You can question whether Circumcision is required. BUT, after the Apostles (i.e. the Church) has decided on the matter, that’s it. You give full assent to it. To still question it is pointless.

What you can do is to pray about it and try to understand why it is true. You might find the answer, or you might not. If you don’t, you bear the cross. In any case, you give full assent to the teaching.

So the difference in the Catholic Church is that it gives you answers with certainty on the things it teaches. If the Apostles decide, then it is the end of story. What Catholics pray for is to understand what has been divinely revealed and taught by the Church. We, as members of the Catholic Church do NOT pray asking God to show us what is the true interpretation.

But in the Protestant church, such a scenario is not possible. There is no authority. So you have people praying to discover WHAT is the TRUE interpretation rather than HOW it is TRUE. The modern mistake is the idea that if one has a logical consistent interpretation that must be true. But logically that lacks any merit.

So the prayers of countless protestants have been answered even before they have been born (They do so when God has already established a way for them to know i.e. through the Church he has established), but they just keep praying and basing their interpretations off of personal signs/coincidences when there is no need for a sign to be given. Personal experience of Christ has made it certain to one that Jesus is REAL. Now just listen to the Church, i.e. Apostles, to discover what he taught.

God Bless

 

[ddarko]

Your questioin -The only question which remains is by whom, exactly, are you led?
I like to believe that I am led by the Holy Spirit and that my life is a process of working out my salvation which means growing the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The problem here is that the belief lacks any reason.

If you say your belief is from Scripture verse X, then you have already assumed what you are about to prove i.e. that the Holy spirit guided you to interpret that Scripture verse X properly.

So the truth be told, you actually have to listen to Jesus’ Apostles to know who he is. Without doing so, all you can know for sure from your personal experiences are that Jesus is REAL.

The Galatians passage that you quote is talking about those who profess to be believers but are not living like they are. Chances are, they are not then. We are called to examine ourselves to determine the motive of our hearts. Are we serving the Lord or are we serving self.

You’re right, I am going around and around in circles so I will follow your advice and stop. The way of salvation is clearly not a narrow subject.

Yes, you are sort of going around in circles but I don’t blame you.

The reason for this circular traversal is because most of us are used to trying to disprove the other side using Theology. The aim, in a usual Catholic vs. Protestant debate is to prove why the other side’s Scripture interpretation is logically inconsistent. But the problem is, both sides could have a logically consistent interpretation. In fact, there could be millions of possible interpretations. So this path just doesn’t work. (This is also similar to Christianity vs. Islam debates where each side is trying to show inconsistencies in the opponents holy book… it gets nowhere)

The other thing is that one must realize the LIMITS of personal experiences. All a “personal experience” tells us is that God is REAL, Jesus is REAL. It does not tell us that our religion is CORRECT. Most of the religious in the world think that just because they have personal experiences, they have figured out which religion is true. So the Muslim thinks his religion is right, the Mormon his, etc. But that’s not how it works. After we know that God is real or Jesus is real, we must seek him. Use our God given intellect to find what he is like.

So narrowing things down to the current issue of Protestant vs. Catholics, what one must do is, ask how one knows WHICH interpretation to BELIEVE. The reasonable thing to do then is to go back to the early Church and see HOW pagans and Jews came to know Jesus. It wasn’t through a book. It wasn’t through a personal prayer. It was by listening and accepting the teachings of the Apostles.

Then we see these same apostles instituting new Apostles. We also see that these new Apostles are treated with the same teaching authority. This apostolic succession has happened to this day within the Catholic Church.

Therefore, then you listen to the Apostles today. If you had the option between praying by yourself and deciding vs. asking St. Peter or St. Paul for an answer about a certain teaching, which one would you choose? If you prayed, God will be wondering why on earth aren’t you listening to the Apostles he has given.

God has kept the Apostolic succession to this day and he will keep it forever because he wants people to know about Jesus with certainty. He doesn’t want it to be just a personal experience of Jesus being real and then just speculation based on Scripture as to what he might have said. So accept God’s gift, the Church.

God Bless

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’ve read and studied it. Perhaps I will read it again, and I’ll try to use the glasses that you are wearing (catholic theology) so I can better understand where you’re coming from. In the meantime, I will trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross and follow and serve Him, the King.

God bless you.

I’m a convert. I didn’t know one thing about “Catholic theology” before I came to inquire about the Church. But I did know how to read the Gospels and read Paul and recognize how beautiful a book Romans is and how Paul says just what Jesus says.

Jesus Christ is God, “theology” is “God knowledge.”

Know Christ; know God.

That was and still is my theology. If, when I went through RCIA, the Church had disagreed with what I knew to be true, I’d have walked right out the door. Instead, they were the only ones who actually believe Jesus.

If you do ever reread Romans in one sitting, it helps to understand that Paul hadn’t met those people, but he was writing to a group of new Christians of mixed background: Jews and others. They were having apparently, the same problems as other mixed groups because the Jews tended to “lord it over” the others. That’s why Paul is always talking about “boasting” and tells the Jews not to.

He had dealt with this same thing… someplace, in Galatia? I’d have to check, but, he had experience with it and it seems to me he writes this gorgeous yet very Pharisaical treatise about awesome spiritual reality, it’s so perfectly wrought. I wonder if he had a feeling, he was never going to get there. Except in chains, of course. So he gave them everything he had in that letter.

 

[Philthy]

Your question -The only question which remains is by whom, exactly, are you led? I like to believe that I am led by the Holy Spirit and that my life is a process of working out my salvation which means growing the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, we all like to believe this! But if we are being led in different directions one has to wonder…

The Galatians passage that you quote is talking about those who profess to be believers but are not living like they are.

You are adding confusion where none exists! The term “believers” doesnt exist. It is not that they are not believers - they are. Read the terms Paul uses in describing them in the preceding chapters. It is clear that Paul is talking to “brothers” who heard the gospel"received the Spirit"(v 3:2) and were “baptized” and had “put on Christ”. They are, in your lingo, saved believers, Christians by anyone’s standard, Leadee. That is the important point. And yet, they are living “in the flesh”, forsaking God in the process. And Paul is clear in warning them: those who are saved who choose to live like they are living will not inherit the KofG. There is no ambiguity in this message from what is recorded in the letter. The only obstacle to seeing this truth is when someone has a preconceived theology (such as OSAS) and attempts to force the verses to conform to that theology. It is clearly documented that they WERE saved but that through their actions Paul feels they MIGHT NOT BE saved (ie won’t inherit the KofG) if they continue living “in the flesh”. It is very simple and straight forward.

Chances are, they are not then.

Correct, but the question for this thread is, “Were they ever?”, and the answer is definitively, “YES THEY WERE!” OSAS is a heresy, plain and simple, and 1Cor 6, Gal 5 and Eph 5 clearly demonstrate that.

We are called to examine ourselves to determine the motive of our hearts. Are we serving the Lord or are we serving self.

Of course! And the reason we are called to do that is because our motives have eternal consequences…we must persevere to the end in serving Him.

I actually have been spending more time in prayer regarding this matter and have been doing a lot of reflecting and will continue to do so.

Spending time in prayer is highly commendable and indispensable, but do not confuse that fact with the truth that it does not replace the proper formation of faith for knowing God’s will. That is why the Gospel was preached and taught, rather than simply prayed about. This was entrusted to the Apostles and their successors (He who hears you hears me). The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a good resource among many.

There’s nothing I love to do more then learn about Jesus so this is easy for me I hope the same for you because we can never know enough about our King and His Kingdom. If we think we know it that’s pride and we know what comes after pride.

A burning desire to know Christ is a tremendous blessing. And yes, pride and arrogance go hand in hand…we must always “stay awake” for our restless hearts tend to wander…

May God bless you with a fresh new revelation of His mercy, grace and love each day as you walk with Him,
Lea

Thank you. I know that He that unites us is greater than that which divides us - thank God for that!. And may God bless and protect you as well.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

All scripture is important and that’s why you can’t base theology on just a few. It must all line up and not contradict. If there’s contradiction then it’s being misunderstood.

I totally agree that there can only be on Jesus Christ. If it’s not the Jesus from the bible then I am confused.

I think you biggest problem is Authority! What authority do you have to interpret The Bible?
There is ONLY ONE AUTHORITY to interpret The Bible… The Catholic Church!
You know Leadee… The Church that fixed the Canon in 392 A.D. that Church…
All the writings of the New Testament that were written by for and about Catholics!
Sola scriptura is like a boat without a rudder. Your moving and yet have no idea where you will end up.
Please read up on early Christian history. You will only find The Catholic Church.

Matthew

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

That’s fair enough. Are catholics allowed to even question the catholic doctrine? I know that in my present church, I am not only allowed to question something when I doesn’t seem to line up with all of scripture, I am encouraged to seek answers and ask the Holy Spirit to shed light on it.

The only problem is that the Holy Spirit has led you and tens of thousands in different directions! The Holy Spirit is NOT the author of confusion. You are the only one who agrees
with your Scripture interpretation.

Matthew