What now for Ireland?

[minkymurph]

https://oneway2day.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/1st-amendment_thumb.jpg?w=646&h=333

Where is that explicit provision of separation for Church and State in the US Constitution?
The more important question to me is how does the judicial and democratic system draw a line and define what is moral and what is not? How, without a reference point can it justify granting one group a right, while totally violating another group if some type of morality is not used as the standard?

I’ve already asked this question, and I challenge anyone to with sound reason or however way you want to go about it to give me a good explanation why a homosexual couple can marry and a polygamist cannot. The marriage between the polygamist involves more than one spouse. So what? If we remove Christian morality from legal argument, then the polygamists rights must honored. Incidentally , has any homosexual been jailed for marrying like polygamist have?

I wasn’t referring specifically to the US Constitution but I don’t understand what you are saying. Are you arguing the US Constitution makes no provision for separation of Church and State or that it does?

On the point of polygamy, the only explanation I could give you as to why a polygamist cannot have more than one wife is in the case of the UK it would cost a fortune in welfare.

You do have a point though.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

You’re clearly wrong in that opinion. You only need to examine European history to see that modern Europe was built on the foundations of Christendom. The partnership between Church and State worked for the most part. One helped the other. The State didn’t have to do it on its own because it could not, and same for the Church. The unsung hero’s of the Dark Ages were the Catholics monks who were the innovators and did the heavy lifting when the States were mired in revolts, wars and chaos.

A should have specified the past few centuries. The problem is that politics will attempt to force the church to do what it shouldn’t. The partnership worked for a long time, but at this point if the state has a certain policy, that has potential to be forced down the church’s throat. Though I may not believe, I still hold that church policy and beliefs should not change at the same rate and whim as politics.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

If civil marriage is going to be different than religious marriage

It already is. Marriage as most people understand it vs what the Catholic Church teaches are distinct things.

because it’s all about how people feel, sexual urges and not raising kids, then frankly civil marriage should be abolished as dead weight because in such cases it is of no value to the state. States are not obligated to pick up the tab for personal indulgences in sexual matters.

If successful marriage provides many benefits to the individual and the state. But how can you not see that civil marriage is already and has long been distinct from religious marriages?

Not in the places where so-called gay “marriage” is legal. In fact, many of the same voices who support so-called gay “marriage” think adultery is between “two consenting adults” as merely a choice. There’s even some murmurs that this behavior is actually a good thing.

“Open” marriages are an anomaly rather than the norm. The above could also be said of opposite sex marriages.

The idea controlling of STDs is a very poor reason to allow so-called gay “marriage” considering the promiscuous behavior involved in homosexual relationships. In any case, those who are sexually promiscuous are not always the best candidates for
immediate fidelity—there is a need to change the behavior, which is never quite so easy.

Divorce is one of the top fears related to marriage. The concept that a few nights of could cost half your stuff plus alimony is terrifying.

The challenges of fidelity are part of discernment for any marriage. I’m not sure how this is different from opposite sex marriage.

So, if disease prevention is the concern, the best option isn’t a “marriage” under what I think we all know would be false pretenses, but rather taking measures to prevent getting the disease, such as refraining from homosexual acts and other promiscuous sexual behavior.

But we can’t make best the enemy of better. Obviously, refraining from those acts or even just one lifetime partner is best, but just as with heterosexuals that isn’t likely to happen in large numbers.

 

[Rosebud77]

What now for Ireland?

Oh The tourism industry is so excited!
Talking about the 100’s of 1000’s of euros they will pour into attracting gay people to come to Ireland.

We are such a mecca of enlightenment now.

Oh, the money it will bring to our country!

:banghead:

I saw that… how many wonderful venues for gay marriage… yukk!!!

 

[Casilda]

What now for Ireland? Found a list with just over 300 Irish saints and blessed, that should keep us busy for almost a year. Our response is prayer.

St. Abban
St. Abel
St. Abigail
St. Abran
St. Adalgis
St. Adamnan
St. Adamnan of Coldingham
St. Adulf
St. Aengus
St. Aidan
St. Aidan of Lindisfarne
St. Aidan of Ferns
St. Ailbhe
St. Aileran
St. Alto
St. Andrew
St. Andrew the Scot
Apostles of Erin (Ireland)
St. Asicus
St. Attracta
St. Autbod (Aubeu)
St. Autbodus
St. Balin
St. Balther
St. Barrfoin
St. Bean
St. Becan
St. Becan
St. Bega
St. Benignus
St. Beoadh
St. Beoadh
St. Beoc
St. Berach
St. Bernard of Arce
St. Bilfrid
St. Blaithmaic
St. Boadin
St. Boethian
St. Brandan
St. Breaca
St. Brendan
St. Brendan of Birr
St. Briarch
St. Bridget
St. Brigid
St. Brigid of Ireland
St. Brogan
St. Bron
St. Bronach
St. Budoc
St. Buriana
St. Caellainn
St. Caidoc & Fricor
St. Caillin
St. Caimin
St. Cairlon
St. Canice
St. Canice
St. Cannera
St. Carthach the Elder
St. Carthach the Younger
St. Cataldus
St. Cearan
St. Cellach
St. Celsus
St. Ceollach
St. Cera
St. Chad of Mercia
St. Chillien
Bl. Christian O’Conarchy
St. Christian
St. Chuniald & Gislar
St. Cianan
St. Cillene
St. Cinnia
St. Cogitosus
St. Colga (Coelchu)
St. Colman of Cloyne
St. Colman McRhoi
St. Colman of Dromore
St. Colman of Elo
St. Colman of Glendalough
St. Colman of Kilmacduagh
St. Colman of Kilroot
St. Colman of Lindisfarne
St. Colman of Lismore
St. Colman of Stockerau
St. Columba
St. Columban
St. Columbanus
St. Comgall
St. Comgall
St. Comgan
St. Conall
St. Conleth
St. Conleth
Bl. Conor O’Devany
St. Corbican
St. Cormac
St. Cornelius of Armagh
St. Crewanna
St. Cronan of Roscrea
St. Cronan Beg
St. Cronan of Roscrea
St. Cronan the Wise
St. Crummine
St. Cuan
St. Cuaran
St. Cumine
St. Cummian Fada
St. Cuthbert
St. Dabius
St. Declan
St. Deicola
St. Diarmaid
St. Dichu
St. Diman
St. Diomma
St. Disibod
St. Diuma
St. Donan
St. Donatus of Fiesole
St. Drostan
St. Dubtach
St. Dunchaid O’Braoin
St. Duthac
St. Eadbert
St. Edana
Bl. Edmund Ignatius Rice
St. Eliphius
St. Elwin
St. Emilian
St. Enda
St. Eoban
St. Ergnad
St. Erhard of Regensburg
St. Erth
St. Etto
St. Eugene
St. Eusebius
St. Fanchea
St. Farannan
St. Fechin
St. Feock
St. Feredarius
St. Fergus
St. Fiace
St. Fiachan
St. Fiacre
St. Fidharleus
St. Finan
St. Finan of Lindisfarne
St. Finan of Lindisfarne
St. Finbar
St. Findan
St. Fingar
St. Finian
St. Finian Lobhar
St. Finian Munnu
St. Finian of Clonard
St. Finlugh
St. Fintan
St. Fintan of Clonenagh
St. Fionnchu
St. Flannan
St. Florentius
St. Florentius of Strasbourg
St. Foellan
St. Foila
St. Forannan
St. Fortchern
St. Fredegand
St. Frediano
St. Fridolin
St. Fursey
St. Gall
St. Garbhan
St. Gerebrand
St. Germoc
St. Gibrian
St. Glushallaich
St. Goban
St. Gobnata
St. Gormcal
St. Grimonia
St. Guasacht
St. Gunifort
St. Guthagon
St. Helanus
St. Hiero
St. Himelin
St. Himelin
St. Ia of Cornwall
St. Idus of Leinster
St. Illadan
St. Indract
St. Ita
St. Jarlath
St. Jarlath
St. Jarlath
Bl. John Carey
Bl. John Roche & Margaret Ward
St. Kenan
St. Kenneth
St. Kentigerna
St. Kessag
St. Kevin
St. Kiara
St. Kieran
St. Kieran of Saigir
St. Kilian
St. Kilian
St. Kinnia
St. Lactali
St. Lasar
St. Laserian
St. Lawrence O’Toole
St. Lawrence O’Toole
St. Lelia
St. Livinus
St. Loaran
St. Loman
St. Louthiem
St. Lua
St. Macaille
St. Macanisius
St. Macartan
St. Maccalin
St. Maccallin
St. Machabeo
St. Machai
St. Madelgisilus
St. Maedhog
St. Maelmuire O’ Gorman
St. Maelrubius
St. Maiduif
St. Maimbod
St. Malachy
St. Malchus
St. Maolruain
St. Marnock
St. Maughold
St. Maura
St. Maxentia of Beauvais
St. Medana
St. Medran & Odran
St. Meldon
St. Mella
St. Menulphus
St. Minnborinus of Cologne
St. Mochelloc
St. Mochoemoc
St. Mochoemoc
St. Modan
St. Modomnoc
St. Moelray
St. Molagga
St. Moling
St. Monennaa
St. Monessa
St. Movean
St. Muirchu
St. Mummolus
St. Mun
St. Munchin
St. Mura McFeredach
St. Murtagh
St. Natalis
St. Nathy
St. Neachtian
St. Nectan of Hartland
St. Nennius
St. Nennus
St. Nissen
St. Odhran of Iona
St. Odrian
St. Oliver Plunkett
St. Oncho
St. Osmanna
St. Odran of Iona
St. Palladius
St. Pandwyna
St. Pantagathus
St. Paternus
St. Patrick
St. Peregrinus
St. Phelim
St. Psalmodius
Bl. Ralph Corby
St. Rioch
St. Riquier
St. Rodingus
St. Ruadan
St. Rumold
St. Rumon
St. Rupert of Salzberg
St. Sacer
St. Samthan
St. Samthann
St. Samthann
St. Sanctan
St. Scannal
St. Schotin
St. Seachnall
St. Sedna
St. Senach
St. Senan
St. Senan
St. Tanco
Bl. Thaddeus Maccarthy
St. Thomian
St. Tochmura
St. Tola
St. Trea
St. Tressan
St. Trien
St. Tuda
St. Turninus
St. Ursicinus
St. Ursmar
St. Ursus of Aosta
St. Vergil of Salzburg
St. Virgilius of Salzburg
St. Vodoaldus
St. Voloc
St. Vouga
St. Vulganius
St. Winnow, Mancus, & Mybrad
St. Wiro

 

[Rosebud77]

Not sure if folk realise that the referendum was at base a vote catcher for a failing and unpopular govt that is facing election year next year and have no morals …ie manipulate all they can.

 

[anon98328916]

Here’s a case where you’d be correct:

"Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church"

Their State church would be mandated to conduct the weddings. Proponents of SSM were adamant this would not happen. Now who’s rights are being violated?

This is very worrying and why would some Bishops and Priests be for it? Is this what will happen to Ireland in the future?

 

[anon98328916]

What now for Ireland? Found a list with just over 300 Irish saints and blessed, that should keep us busy for almost a year. Our response is prayer.

St. Abban
St. Abel
St. Abigail
St. Abran
St. Adalgis
St. Adamnan
St. Adamnan of Coldingham
St. Adulf
St. Aengus
St. Aidan
St. Aidan of Lindisfarne
St. Aidan of Ferns
St. Ailbhe
St. Aileran
St. Alto
St. Andrew
St. Andrew the Scot
Apostles of Erin (Ireland)
St. Asicus
St. Attracta
St. Autbod (Aubeu)
St. Autbodus
St. Balin
St. Balther
St. Barrfoin
St. Bean
St. Becan
St. Becan
St. Bega
St. Benignus
St. Beoadh
St. Beoadh
St. Beoc
St. Berach
St. Bernard of Arce
St. Bilfrid
St. Blaithmaic
St. Boadin
St. Boethian
St. Brandan
St. Breaca
St. Brendan
St. Brendan of Birr
St. Briarch
St. Bridget
St. Brigid
St. Brigid of Ireland
St. Brogan
St. Bron
St. Bronach
St. Budoc
St. Buriana
St. Caellainn
St. Caidoc & Fricor
St. Caillin
St. Caimin
St. Cairlon
St. Canice
St. Canice
St. Cannera
St. Carthach the Elder
St. Carthach the Younger
St. Cataldus
St. Cearan
St. Cellach
St. Celsus
St. Ceollach
St. Cera
St. Chad of Mercia
St. Chillien
Bl. Christian O’Conarchy
St. Christian
St. Chuniald & Gislar
St. Cianan
St. Cillene
St. Cinnia
St. Cogitosus
St. Colga (Coelchu)
St. Colman of Cloyne
St. Colman McRhoi
St. Colman of Dromore
St. Colman of Elo
St. Colman of Glendalough
St. Colman of Kilmacduagh
St. Colman of Kilroot
St. Colman of Lindisfarne
St. Colman of Lismore
St. Colman of Stockerau
St. Columba
St. Columban
St. Columbanus
St. Comgall
St. Comgall
St. Comgan
St. Conall
St. Conleth
St. Conleth
Bl. Conor O’Devany
St. Corbican
St. Cormac
St. Cornelius of Armagh
St. Crewanna
St. Cronan of Roscrea
St. Cronan Beg
St. Cronan of Roscrea
St. Cronan the Wise
St. Crummine
St. Cuan
St. Cuaran
St. Cumine
St. Cummian Fada
St. Cuthbert
St. Dabius
St. Declan
St. Deicola
St. Diarmaid
St. Dichu
St. Diman
St. Diomma
St. Disibod
St. Diuma
St. Donan
St. Donatus of Fiesole
St. Drostan
St. Dubtach
St. Dunchaid O’Braoin
St. Duthac
St. Eadbert
St. Edana
Bl. Edmund Ignatius Rice
St. Eliphius
St. Elwin
St. Emilian
St. Enda
St. Eoban
St. Ergnad
St. Erhard of Regensburg
St. Erth
St. Etto
St. Eugene
St. Eusebius
St. Fanchea
St. Farannan
St. Fechin
St. Feock
St. Feredarius
St. Fergus
St. Fiace
St. Fiachan
St. Fiacre
St. Fidharleus
St. Finan
St. Finan of Lindisfarne
St. Finan of Lindisfarne
St. Finbar
St. Findan
St. Fingar
St. Finian
St. Finian Lobhar
St. Finian Munnu
St. Finian of Clonard
St. Finlugh
St. Fintan
St. Fintan of Clonenagh
St. Fionnchu
St. Flannan
St. Florentius
St. Florentius of Strasbourg
St. Foellan
St. Foila
St. Forannan
St. Fortchern
St. Fredegand
St. Frediano
St. Fridolin
St. Fursey
St. Gall
St. Garbhan
St. Gerebrand
St. Germoc
St. Gibrian
St. Glushallaich
St. Goban
St. Gobnata
St. Gormcal
St. Grimonia
St. Guasacht
St. Gunifort
St. Guthagon
St. Helanus
St. Hiero
St. Himelin
St. Himelin
St. Ia of Cornwall
St. Idus of Leinster
St. Illadan
St. Indract
St. Ita
St. Jarlath
St. Jarlath
St. Jarlath
Bl. John Carey
Bl. John Roche & Margaret Ward
St. Kenan
St. Kenneth
St. Kentigerna
St. Kessag
St. Kevin
St. Kiara
St. Kieran
St. Kieran of Saigir
St. Kilian
St. Kilian
St. Kinnia
St. Lactali
St. Lasar
St. Laserian
St. Lawrence O’Toole
St. Lawrence O’Toole
St. Lelia
St. Livinus
St. Loaran
St. Loman
St. Louthiem
St. Lua
St. Macaille
St. Macanisius
St. Macartan
St. Maccalin
St. Maccallin
St. Machabeo
St. Machai
St. Madelgisilus
St. Maedhog
St. Maelmuire O’ Gorman
St. Maelrubius
St. Maiduif
St. Maimbod
St. Malachy
St. Malchus
St. Maolruain
St. Marnock
St. Maughold
St. Maura
St. Maxentia of Beauvais
St. Medana
St. Medran & Odran
St. Meldon
St. Mella
St. Menulphus
St. Minnborinus of Cologne
St. Mochelloc
St. Mochoemoc
St. Mochoemoc
St. Modan
St. Modomnoc
St. Moelray
St. Molagga
St. Moling
St. Monennaa
St. Monessa
St. Movean
St. Muirchu
St. Mummolus
St. Mun
St. Munchin
St. Mura McFeredach
St. Murtagh
St. Natalis
St. Nathy
St. Neachtian
St. Nectan of Hartland
St. Nennius
St. Nennus
St. Nissen
St. Odhran of Iona
St. Odrian
St. Oliver Plunkett
St. Oncho
St. Osmanna
St. Odran of Iona
St. Palladius
St. Pandwyna
St. Pantagathus
St. Paternus
St. Patrick
St. Peregrinus
St. Phelim
St. Psalmodius
Bl. Ralph Corby
St. Rioch
St. Riquier
St. Rodingus
St. Ruadan
St. Rumold
St. Rumon
St. Rupert of Salzberg
St. Sacer
St. Samthan
St. Samthann
St. Samthann
St. Sanctan
St. Scannal
St. Schotin
St. Seachnall
St. Sedna
St. Senach
St. Senan
St. Senan
St. Tanco
Bl. Thaddeus Maccarthy
St. Thomian
St. Tochmura
St. Tola
St. Trea
St. Tressan
St. Trien
St. Tuda
St. Turninus
St. Ursicinus
St. Ursmar
St. Ursus of Aosta
St. Vergil of Salzburg
St. Virgilius of Salzburg
St. Vodoaldus
St. Voloc
St. Vouga
St. Vulganius
St. Winnow, Mancus, & Mybrad
St. Wiro

Thank you so much for this, yes prayer is the answer and will defeat this sinful act.

 

[paulrxp]

I wasn’t referring specifically to the US Constitution but I don’t understand what you are saying. Are you arguing the US Constitution makes no provision for separation of Church and State or that it does?

On the point of polygamy, the only explanation I could give you as to why a polygamist cannot have more than one wife is in the case of the UK it would cost a fortune in welfare.

You do have a point though.

Sorry Minky, didn’t mean any disrespect in my previous post. It could’ve been read in a way that just sounds a bit harsh. That was not my intent. Just raising a question about an issue that comes up so often in these legal squabbles. The separation of Church and State I’ve read first came up with Thomas Jefferson. As far as I know the government cannot endorse a particular religion. It says nothing about separating the state from religion in the US Constitution.

Those of you on here who support SSM. I’ll have to ask you. If the Catholic Church in the United State says we will not marry homosexuals in our Church, would you oppose this, and what would you expect or want the United States government to do about it? The Lutheran church in Denmark apparently had no option.

That’s interesting . Never even thought about the welfare nightmare of polygamy, but for sure it would be a nightmare for the State. Divorce attorney’s would be on cloud nine. I’m certainly not for polygamy, but a polygamist could reasonably ask a court: why do you allow homosexuals to marry and not allow them(polygamist)? If this is not a purely moral issue, not a Christian one. Having no morality as the standard of what’s allowed should make both groups equal under the law should it not? We basically changed the definition of marriage being between 1 man and 1 woman, we can just as easily change it to 1 spouse to multiple spouses. What moral law is keeping me from changing that if I’ve removed Christianity from morality?

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Those of you on here who support SSM. I’ll have to ask you. If the Catholic Church in the United State says we will not marry homosexuals in our Church, would you oppose this, and what would you expect or want the United States government to do about it? The Lutheran church in Denmark apparently had no option.

I support same sex marriages, and I would support the church.

Let’s not forget that in Europe there is no strict separation between the state and the church. Usually there one religion which is officially endorsed by the state, and the rest is just hanging on the coat-tail. I am not familiar with the system in Denmark, but if the church accepts money from the state, it should not be surprised if that money comes with “strings” attached. In Europe part of your tax money is set aside to support all the accepted churches (proportionally according to the size of their members), but you have the option to declare that you are an atheist, and then no money will be withheld. A great incentive for the fiscally conscious.

That is why you should not be so concerned about the US government forcing the churches to actively perform same sex marriages (observe, no scare quotes!). The individual businesses must conform to the laws; that is the price for having a business license. Of course, why is there such a ruckus about some stupid cakes, is beyond me. Why would anyone care about what other people do as long as that activity does not hurt them? And, no, two people of the same sex to declare their commitment toward each other does not hurt you, so it should be none of your concern.

 

[Sparkythedog]

Perhaps, perhaps not. But, so-called gay “marriage” will create a burden on the state that will it make less prepared to deal with external threats.

How so?

 

[Sparkythedog]

Those are not real marriages. Marriage between two persons of the same gender is impossible regardless of what any government says.

Are you married? Or if not, do you plan on getting married in the future?

 

[Simca]

Here’s a case where you’d be correct:

"Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church"

Their State church would be mandated to conduct the weddings. Proponents of SSM were adamant this would not happen. Now who’s rights are being violated?

This is very worrying and why would some Bishops and Priests be for it? Is this what will happen to Ireland in the future?

This is, indeed, very worrying. We can say it couldn’t happen here, but we could be very wrong. It would be better if the State and Church were totally separate than for this to happen. Yet, on so many levels, I would hate to see that happen, too.

With so many schools affiliated with the church (at least for now), children are receiving, in their early years, a knowledge and instruction in the faith. It would be sad to see this lost…although we are already slowly heading in that direction.

 

[minkymurph]

This is, indeed, very worrying. We can say it couldn’t happen here, but we could be very wrong. It would be better if the State and Church were totally separate than for this to happen. Yet, on so many levels, I would hate to see that happen, too.

With so many schools affiliated with the church (at least for now), children are receiving, in their early years, a knowledge and instruction in the faith. It would be sad to see this lost…although we are already slowly heading in that direction.

You may find this article (under private/public schools) interesting.

about-france.com/primary-secondary-schools.htm

The reason I found this article interesting is in the North of Ireland most parents want religious education taught in schools to promote religious tolerance in addition to handing on faith.