What one author says about the Muslim "religion"

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Reuben_J said:
An admirable thought in your post and if you going to stay here I hope you will continue on this disposition. BTW welcome.

If I may I would like to correct you on the bolded statement. After long consideration as to what Islam’s belief is, from a Christian’s perspective I can readily agree that in some aspects their God does conform to what Satan is. This can be backed up by Biblical verses and Christian’s understanding of what God is, His message and also Satan’s attribute.

Most Christian posters here do not make bold statement as to say that Allah is Satan in disguise despite the fact that they may think it is so deep in their hearts. That I think in some degree demonstrates their respect for Muslims. But how do you tell it as it is if you really believe that Islamic God may not be the true God?
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You list your religion as Roman Catholic. In case you care what the Church teaches, they teach pretty much the opposite of what you believe regarding the Muslim God.

Again:
Palm_Tree said:
Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam

Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam 107, August 6, 1964
“Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism,** the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration** for all that is true and good in their worship of God.”

Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator,** in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God,** mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
…
“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

“Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.”
…

It also has many, many quotes from John Paul II on Muslims, including his address to the young Muslims of Morocco, August 19, 1985 where he said:
“Christians and Muslims have many things in common…We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection. . . ."

usccb.org/seia/textsislam.shtml
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Palm_Tree said:
After 9/11, I spent two years studying what caused those people to do that, and I wrote an 160-page report on it. Yeah, that was 5 years ago, but I exhausted all sources and I found nothing to to back up the wild accustations you make about the Muslim religion.

In addition, according to Christian thought, the Devil’s goal is to divide humans, to encourage hatred between humans, and by doing the same thing you are in direct allegiance to the Devil’s will.

Even if you don’t believe in Christianity you should still be able to recognize that it is insanity to encourage hatred and strife toward others. You are guilty of the very thing you are accusing Muslims of. Yes, there are some nutty Muslim fanatics that encourage hatred just like there are some nutty non-Muslim fanatics like you that encourage hatred. You and the Muslim fanatics are the same in the same boat.
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Then you did not do your homework. If you would have not wasted your time with whatever you did and had gone to the source (Islam’s texts) you would have found the problem. And why there are over 30 conflicts around this globe involving Muslims.

I will give you some examples of Muslims on a Jihad:
  • The Philippines, they want some land in the Philippines and over 10,000 attacks against Christians have taken place since 9/11. The Abu Sayaff is one notable group that signed a pact with Al Qaeda in the late 1980s’ along with Saddam, Hamas, The Muslim Brotherhood, etc.
  • Bosnia, they have successfully gained some land for themselves.
  • Lebanon, in the later 20th century Hezbollah and the PLO have wrecked havoc on a Democratic nation that used to be economically viable, a tourist haven, and free. It is now a place where Hezbollah lobs bombs into Israel. The Pals were kicked out of Jordan and they moved there. (source: ‘Because They Hate’ will tell you when the Muslims started their sniping, torture and general persecution of Christians, etc)
  • India, the strife in Kashmir and also in India has been ongoing. Mumbai is one notable place where it was, again, brought to light. Mostly, our media doesn’t touch on the violence going on there. A Jihad was renewed against India in the late 2007. Girls are kidnapped and forced to marry Muslim males and are raped and forced to convert to Islam and after they convert they refuse for the girls to see their parents because the parents are not Muslim.
  • The violence in Southeast Asia is ongoing. Buddhist monks, Christian schoolgirls, etc are beheaded, torched, etc.
  • Africa - Sudan, Somalia, etc.
  • There are over 700 ‘sensitive urban areas’ in France where the police don’t enter out of fear for their lives and no non-muslim can enter. (Newsmax magazine: Jan 2009, page 9)
  • Russia - hundreds of school children killed, and they have been having more problems after that incident.
  • China - China also takes care of their Chinese Muslim problem more directly
  • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg
  • The weekly Jihad report (this website will also lay out the years since 9/11 all the Jihadist attacks for you):
May 23 - May 29
Jihad Attacks: 35
Dead Bodies: 167
Critically Injured: 628

Stop bashing people because you don’t agree with them. I am not saying we should be violent. But we can indeed do things to ensure we do not fall victims and ensure our laws are not changed to reflect Sharia laws, and our children are knowledgeable about Islam that it is NOT what it is ‘cracked up to be’! It is NOT a religion of peace and its Prophet is NOT a nice guy!

(sources: Legacy of Jihad, The Myth of Islamic Tolerance, The Revenge of the Prophet to name a few sources)
 
I just thought of one guy, Walid Shoebat, who was a Muslim and is now and ex-PLO person. He describes being a shahid (martyr) in Islam and what it really means to a Muslim.

I posted this many times and probably will post it again for anyone who wants to understand some things about Islam. I ask for your forgiveness if you have seen this before, but I think it is relevent to someone who says they have done research on Islam and doesn’t think it is violent.

Walid Shoebat Shoebat’s experiences with what he was taught in
islam..
Select the program that says, Talking It Over, PART 1 December 13, 2008.

It is about an hour, but it is worthwhile to know exactly what is in the minds of these suicide bombers and why their mothers are so happy when they do such a thing, and why the community celebrates.

And here is a freebie book in PDF format: The Truth about Muhammed
 
I got another email from Walid Shoebat and he had this to say about Islamic ‘tolerance’:
Our President just spoke in Cairo and he said he wanted to speak truth but the speech was a lie from start to finish. He tried to portray Islam as a tolerant religion. Try ask the families of the million and half Armenian Christians butchered by the Turks in the name of Allah, or the Hindus butchered in the tens of millions in India during the middle ages or try telling the 850,000 Jews who fled Arab countries between 1948 and 1973, or what about the millions of Christians and Black Muslims (not real Muslims according to the Arabs) butchered by the Arab Muslims in Darfur Sudan; just a few of the tolerant moments of Islam. Maybe we could examine the persecution of Copts, Maronites and other Middle Eastern Christians over the last several centuries including the current times. I personally have spoken to dozens of families about how their wives, daughters, aunts and nieces have been subjected to unspeakable rapes, kidnapping and imprisonment with no course for redress.
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It goes on and brought up the cruelty to Muslim women in Muslim countries, but there was quite a bit to it and I think you get the drift of what I am trying to say about Islam really is about.

And then this article about ‘The Religious Foundations for Suicide Bombers’

Why is it that I can get resources on a daily basis and Palm Tree ran out? I just got these two sources today!
 
elwill said:
Mahatma Gandhi
I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."
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Mahatma Gandhi also had said: “mussalmans have an ordeal to pass through. There can be no doubt that they are too free with the knife and the pistol. The sword is an emblem of Islam. But Islam was born in an environment where the sword was, and still remains, the supreme law. The message of Jesus has proved ineffective because the environment was unready to receive it. So with the message of the prophet. The sword is yet too much in evidence among the mussalmans. It must be sheathed if islam is to be what it means - peace.”
 
Palm_Tree said:
Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam
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Code: 
      I believe the pope is a peacemaker. The thing that He has to do is to make a statement that represent the teaching of Jesus Christ: Love and respect for one another. The responsibility of what he says may promote or disrupt the superficial peace that holds our society today.
The problem is our difference with the children of ismael will always be apparent and will always show its ugly head. And that ugly head has a headpiece that says kill all those infidels.
Palm_Tree said:
Reading that stuff I posted by the Church is doing research, it is educating yourself. If you aren’t into reading that, then quit lying to yourself. **You aren’t interested in research or educating yourself. **You are set in your ways, you came up with some crazy idea about the Muslims and you will disagree with every educated and honest person who tells you otherwise, just so you can believe whatever crazy things you want to believe. You’re the one burying your head in the sand like fool.
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Oh yes we are. As pointed out by Agabriel those links are but some of the information that we must take and consider if you really like to have us live in your peaceful fantasy with the religion of a pedophile since they are a proponent of the mob rule.

How many times do you hear Catholics rallying behind a picket line that ask for the head of Dan Brown? Jack Chick? And others who criticize the church? The answer would be next to zero.

How about the muslims. What did they do to the embassies of Denmark when that editorial caricature circulated depicting their pedophile prophet as a terrorist ?

I guess we are to turn away our eyes and ignore their “loving”actions, noh? We must be careful on what we say about their religion lest we want its “peaceful” followers turn into an angry mob. Even the UN is making it illegal to criticize that “peaceful” religion. Where is freedom of speech that the UN advocates?

I guess this religion you are trying to agree with is well on its way in making us muslim zombies and we are subserviently embracing it.

I tell you no way, BIG TIME
 
Palm_Tree said:
You list your religion as Roman Catholic. In case you care what the Church teaches, they teach pretty much the opposite of what you believe regarding the Muslim God.

Again:
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I am reluctant to respond to this because what you say is irrelevant to my post. However I do not wish to make you feel that I ignore you if I don’t respond. I was talking about saying the truth from one’s heart.

Anyway, at least from what you pasted it shows that the Catholic Church does respect Islam and Muslims and that conform to what I said.

Having said that there are nevertheless differences in our respective belief. I just mention two here:
  1. We believe that Jesus died on the cross, Islam does not. Jesus said for Satan to get behind him when Peter suggested he should be given up for that death. Thus it is obvious from the Bible that anyone who believes that Jesus did not die on the cross cannot be from God but Satan.
  2. Satan is the angel of light and can masquerade as anyone he likes. Gabriel of the Quran is certainly not the Gabriel of the Bible who brought the message of the epiphany.
There are warnings in the Bible about false prophets who will teach what contradict to the Gospel.

This subject has been discussed in many threads and though we believe that Muslims think that they worship the same God, in some aspects (the word I used in my earlier post), in some aspects, this god is certainly not the God that we worship.
 
Not all Muslims are violent. There are many who are peaceful and want to live their lives in peace. It is interesting how many want to live in non-Muslim countries. Do they see opportunities and freedoms there that aren’t available in Muslim countries?

However, there are also many who are violent and willing to waste their own lives to kill other people on a large scale. There are Muslim leaders who preach violence. They have a disproportionate influence.

How can America accept Muslims when we see what has happened in countries like Lebanon? How can we protect ourselves? How can we predict who will be good citizens and who will bomb us?

After 9/11 I can’t fault anyone for being cautious about Islam. Americans in general tend to be too trusting. We want to think those who live near us have good motives. Now more of us are coming to believe what the CIA was aware of years ago, that some Muslim groups really do want to invade and take us down.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
After 9/11 I can’t fault anyone for being cautious about Islam. Americans in general tend to be too trusting. We want to think those who live near us have good motives. Now more of us are coming to believe what the CIA was aware of years ago, that some Muslim groups really do want to invade and take us down.
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It is only because THEY keep telling us that they want us dead. THEY keep telling us they hate us. When we were attacked, way too many Muslims who we thought were peaceful celebrated in the streets. And with the continual aiming for unarmed citizens, all I can say is that we would be stupid to not be listening to THEM when they start spouting what they want to do to us.

Oh, and as to the comment about why they come here… I think it has more to do with building up their numbers on lands they think is theirs/Allahs. Sorry, but I just do think that. I don’t see different behavior anywhere else on this globe than a gradual build up of numbers so they can start their demands, and for us to submit. Islam=submission, whether we believe in Islam or not - their Quran tells them that Islam is superior so everyone should submit to them.
 
Agabriel said:
BTW, Fox news seems to have stepped up its grilling of BHO’s agenda. I even read today, from a Walid Shoebat newsletter, that the mainstream media is starting to wake up out of their idolization mode of BHO.
…ME

.
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what is ME?
 
Agabriel said:
. Some of these surahs also tell us that we do not have free will. Allah takes it away and controls us and if he wants to have someone to put into hell, he creates us and intentionally causes us not to believe in him.

The atrocious acts that Muhammed did are all over the Islamic texts. I don’t know where they get the opposite of that except from themselves (clerics, imams).
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wow… weird… but doesn’t surprise me too much…

that part about Allah taking away free wil… controlling us… That reminds me of people who give in a little to some sin or another, then give in a little more later down the road… and then… well, one day, they just let Satan in and become oppressed of the devil or even possessed…

only when you are possessed do you lack (complete) freedom of will… and even then you probably have SOME because, well, i don’t think demons do as much damage as they would like through a possessed person…
 
Agabriel said:
I

And Muhammed told those that wouldn’t wage jihad that they were hypocrites.

Quran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

-The internal enemies are called Munafiq (Hypocrites). They say they are Muslims. And the external enemies are kufir, or unbelievers. Muhammad scolded the “hypocrites” who had stayed behind and failed to support him. Muslims can also be jihadists if they support the ones who war by giving them their wealth and supporting them in other ways. It is why Muslim charities were shut down by Bush, they were found to be directed towards Jihadists.

Quran 9:64 “The Hypocrites are afraid that a surah will be sent down about them, showing them what is (really) in their hearts. Say: ‘Go ahead, scoff and mock, will you! Lo, Allah is disclosing what you fear.’ If you question them (Muhammad about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly, jesting in play.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allah and His proofs, signs, verses, lessons, and Messenger that you were mocking?’”

Quran 4:140 “You have been commanded in the Book that whenever you hear Verses of Allah denied, derided, ridiculed, or mocked [as is the only reasoned response], do not sit with them and engage them in this talk or you will be no different from them. Indeed, Allah will collect the Hypocrites and Infidels together and put them all in Hell.”

Qur’an 4:142 “The Hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. When they stand up performing the prayer, they stand sluggishly, to be seen, but they are mindful of Allah but little. (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it, swaying between this and that, one group or the another.”

Qur’an 4:153 “The people of the Book ask you to cause (an actual) book to descend to them from heaven. Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: ‘Show us Allah in public,’ but they were dazed for their presumption.”

Basically, Muhammed didn’t respect anyone who didn’t fight for him and his god, Allah. He would call them names.
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one of the scariest things about this “religion” is that it is a stumblingblock to those who are outside of any organized religion… un-Christianized, etc… They see the zealous-ness of the Christians and then the zealousness of the Islamists… and they equate them in their minds … think they are not all that different… and see the danger (as well they should) of fanaticism… In some people’s minds, well… they just want to have nothing to do with either “extreme”…

I’ve been called a fanatic but i am a fanatic who believes in non - violence … who belives in Love One Another… and if that is fanatical, i guess i’m guilty as charged…

but the Muslims… well, you know…
 
Palm_Tree said:
You’re the first Catholic on here I’ve seen that basically said screw the Church, I’ll believe whatever I want to believe. Which is not surprising, because you, like Agabriel, have insane ideas.

You two need to sit down with the people that think the US government was the one that blew up the Twin Towers and blamed it on the Muslims. That would be more on your level.
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i’m not going to lower myself to respond …
 
Palm_Tree said:
You are guilty of the very thing you are accusing Muslims of. Yes, there are some nutty Muslim fanatics that encourage hatred just like there are some nutty non-Muslim fanatics like you that encourage hatred. You and the Muslim fanatics are the same in the same boat.
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why is it that those who love God, the US, their fellow man… are accused of hatred because they hate all that goes against those entities?

I feel this is so childish… not to mention tiresome…

no one here (that i know of) has said antyhing about hating anyone… Neither have they shown that they HATE anyone… They hate EVIL…PERIOD…

oppression… bondage (women)… MURDER… killing innocent people (children even) for some stupid cause like “Allah told me to”… which translates into “We want to rule the world”
 
Claire_from_DE said:
Not all Muslims are violent. There are many who are peaceful and want to live their lives in peace. It is interesting how many want to live in non-Muslim countries. Do they see opportunities and freedoms there that aren’t available in Muslim countries?

However, there are also many who are violent and willing to waste their own lives to kill other people on a large scale. There are Muslim leaders who preach violence. They have a disproportionate influence.

How can America accept Muslims when we see what has happened in countries like Lebanon? How can we protect ourselves? How can we predict who will be good citizens and who will bomb us?

After 9/11 I can’t fault anyone for being cautious about Islam. Americans in general tend to be too trusting. We want to think those who live near us have good motives. Now more of us are coming to believe what the CIA was aware of years ago, that some Muslim groups really do want to invade and take us down.
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well said.

It boils down to this: How the heck can we trust any of them when so many of them are doing such atrocities like 911??? Where is the law that says we HAVE to trust them??? We have a right to get dangerous people out of our country… and i believe we should… I believe that, to be on the safe side, we should get all those who claim to be Muslim (believe in jihad) into some quaranteened place… I don’t know how we woiuld do this… but after 911 that is what i would have tried to do if i’d had any say in the matter… Of course, i am saying this without giving it deep thought so i am not 100% behind this idea… its just that others go to the other extreme… as you say, being too trusting… THAT is very dangerous…

it seems pepole have forgotten about 911… People do forget… another very dangerous thing… but it seems to me the Muslims are keeping our memories alive… the “cartoon” murder… the bombings in England… and elsewhere… Yes, they are reminding us…
 
Palm_Tree said:
You list your religion as Roman Catholic. In case you care what the Church teaches, they teach pretty much the opposite of what you believe regarding the Muslim God.

Again:
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why are you posting things that were said before 911?

some of this is 40 yrs old…
 
Agabriel said:
I will give you some examples of Muslims on a Jihad:
  • The Philippines, they want some land in the Philippines and over 10,000 attacks against Christians have taken place since 9/11. The Abu Sayaff is one notable group that signed a pact with Al Qaeda in the late 1980s’ along with Saddam, Hamas, The Muslim Brotherhood, etc.
  • Bosnia, they have successfully gained some land for themselves.
  • Lebanon, in the later 20th century Hezbollah and the PLO have wrecked havoc on a Democratic nation that used to be economically viable, a tourist haven, and free. It is now a place where Hezbollah lobs bombs into Israel. The Pals were kicked out of Jordan and they moved there. (source: ‘Because They Hate’ will tell you when the Muslims started their sniping, torture and general persecution of Christians, etc)
  • India, the strife in Kashmir and also in India has been ongoing. Mumbai is one notable place where it was, again, brought to light. Mostly, our media doesn’t touch on the violence going on there. A Jihad was renewed against India in the late 2007. Girls are kidnapped and forced to marry Muslim males and are raped and forced to convert to Islam and after they convert they refuse for the girls to see their parents because the parents are not Muslim.
  • The violence in Southeast Asia is ongoing. Buddhist monks, Christian schoolgirls, etc are beheaded, torched, etc.
  • Africa - Sudan, Somalia, etc.
  • There are over 700 ‘sensitive urban areas’ in France where the police don’t enter out of fear for their lives and no non-muslim can enter. (Newsmax magazine: Jan 2009, page 9)
  • Russia - hundreds of school children killed, and they have been having more problems after that incident.
  • China - China also takes care of their Chinese Muslim problem more directly
  • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg
  • The weekly Jihad report (this website will also lay out the years since 9/11 all the Jihadist attacks for you):
May 23 - May 29
Jihad Attacks: 35
Dead Bodies: 167
Critically Injured: 628

Stop bashing people because you don’t agree with them. I am not saying we should be violent. But we can indeed do things to ensure we do not fall victims and ensure our laws are not changed to reflect Sharia laws, and our children are knowledgeable about Islam that it is NOT what it is ‘cracked up to be’! It is NOT a religion of peace and its Prophet is NOT a nice guy!

(sources: Legacy of Jihad, The Myth of Islamic Tolerance, The Revenge of the Prophet to name a few sources)
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thanks for all the info… sorry if this offends anyone but most people who are pro-Muslim are ignorant and/or choose to have their head in the sand…

I hate TV so i have to admit to a certain “ignorance” myself excetp that i DO read books, like the one mentioned inOP…

Plus… well… i fail to see how anyone really needs to even read a whole lot… after 911!!!

but then again, if people believe the US did that… we did it to ourselves… OK, never mind…
 
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