What one author says about the Muslim "religion"

[distracted]

sedonaman, every kafir will go to hell. Every one who opposed or fought Moses or Jesus or Muhammad is a Kafir and will go to hell. that is our belief. We Muslims may have to fight against the Kafir. But you christian are taught to kiss the kafir (enemy). So you have your way and we will have our way.

then maybe you are going to Hell?? (I say maybe)

because you seem to, at every turn, fight against Jesus… Jesus said to turn the other cheek to those who do you wrong… (I’m not saying here that capital punsihment violates this tenet of chritianity). Being of a different religious persuasion does not do you wrong… What other people believe really isn’t any of your business… until/unless he is trying to kill you… and it seems that American Christains aren’t trying to kill anyone except in self defense…

Jesus said to love others as you love yourself, the implicvtion being that you should love yourself… If you don’t, you won’t have much love for any one else…

i tend to think that blowing yourself up in a fiery inferno, & at the same time forcing others to undergo such a thing (911) is not exactly loving yourself or others…

guess i could be wrong…

 

[distracted]

**I am not attacking any one. The other party is attacking my religion. Since when did it beome mandatory for men to have only One wife. Jospeh the Carpentar had mor ethan one wife. he was a married person and he took Mary as his second wife. Jacob son of Issac had 4 wives. King Soloman had 300 wives. You are the odd one out. I would not say more than that. Youa re already fed up to boiling point.

I would repeat: Any one who is biased should not talk about human rights.
**.

well, i am female & i want 300 husbands…

 

[distracted]

muslims live in our country and at the same time criticize it, said they would not fight for the US against Osama

is there anything in the Koran about hypocricy??

 

[distracted]

J C, I do not believe in attacking any one physically. But I have the right to defend in words whatever wrong is being spread. I do not support any one of any faith who physically attacks other for any religious beliefs.

so far you have not convinced anyone (me, at least & others here) that your religion is one of peace and love…

 

[distracted]

sedonaman, every kafir will go to hell. Every one who opposed or fought Moses or Jesus or Muhammad is a Kafir and will go to hell. that is our belief. We Muslims may have to fight against the Kafir. But you christian are taught to kiss the kafir (enemy). So you have your way and we will have our way.

this sounds like a veiled threat.

 

[distracted]

Planten

If u kill the infidel, u will not have the time nor opportunity to persuade them to acknowledge the truth, which will be regarded as making fruits in our term, which will be awarded by God. ug:

not only that, but a person who kills a human who has not himself murdered anyone is likely going to Hell, particularly since such a person - one who kills in the name of God - will be presumed to have no guilt or remorse about it - i.e: no repentence.

The Word of God (interpreted infallibly by Christ’s Church) says that final impenitence is the unforgivable sin.

***I don’t like your religion, Muslims… but i care about your soul… don’t want anyone to go to Hell… ***
you can’t get out, ever…

 

[sedonaman]

…
Judge not, lest you be judged.

it’s one thing to comment on the wickedness of a person’s behavior… We cannot turn a blind eye to such things as abortion, etc…

but to say that someone is damned to Hell… is to think you are God…

“Judge not, lest you be judged” has got to be one of the least understood of the bumpersticker slogans, along with “Thou shalt not kill.”

Consider this: As Catholics, we are to avoid associating with persons who might lead us into sin. How can we determine who they are without judging them? Hmmm?

As for my actual comment, you misjudged that too, since I was commenting on Islamic doctrine, not Muslims nor a particular individual. Perhaps I should have said “According to Muslims, kafirs are damned to hell.” Here is a direct quote from one of our Muslim posters:

sedonaman, every kafir will go to hell. Every one who opposed or fought Moses or Jesus or Muhammad is a Kafir and will go to hell. that is our belief. We Muslims may have to fight against the Kafir. But you christian are taught to kiss the kafir (enemy). So you have your way and we will have our way.

You might want to read first the comments that lead up to a particular one you want to comment on.

 

[Christos]

yes but its better not to submit to a “god” like that… a god of hate…

i gues it kinda goes back to what Jesus said about how so few find that narrow road that leads to Heaven. i do what i can to get people on (keep them on) that road but seems liked it doesn’t do much good…

God knows…

humans seem to be naturally belligerent…

which is good if you are belligerently Catholic…

You call our God a god of hate. Look at your own. Please explain these to me.

Numbers 21:4-9: God killed followers who were complaining to Moses the lack of water and foods while travelling the dessert.
• Leviticus 10:1-5: God killed Nadab and Abihu (nephews of Moses) when God dislikes the scent of the bonfire offered for Him.
• 1 Samuel 6:19: God killed curious people who look at the “Ark of the Covenant” plus another 50,070 were also killed by God.
• Genesis 19:12-26: While escaping the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God killed Lot’s wife when she merely looked back at the city while under-going devastation also by God.
• 1 Chronicles 13:7-11: While the ‘Ark of the Covenant’ was being transported it tilted and about to fall-down. Servant Uzzah instinctively touched/held it to prevent from falling. God killed him for this.
• 2 Samuel 24:1-15: God ordered David to count his fighters/soldiers then for unstated reason, god killed 70,000 of them.
• Exodus 32:35: God killed those who worship Pagan God-Golden Calf created by Aaron (brother of Moses)
• Numbers 25:1-9: By order of God, Moses double-killed Israelites with his Midianite girlfriend then another 24,000 were again killed by God.
• Numbers 16:1-35: When 250 Israel men challenged the single leadership style of Moses. God killed them all. The next day, another 14,700 were killed by God.
• 1 Kings 18:17-40: When Yahweh (God of Israel) won a contest against Baal (God of Syria) as to which one is the true God, all the 450 prophets of Baal were killed as the prize.
• Luke 19:27: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."- Jesus Christ
“The Bible is no longer even regarded as moral. Its verses have been used to affirm war, slavery, segregation and apartheid. It defines women as inferior creatures and suggests that homosexual persons be put to death”- Bishop John Shelby Spong.
• Genesis 19:1-6: Prophet Lot appeared as pimp when he offered his 2 virgin daughters to replace his 2 male/angel house guests wanted to be gang-raped by his neighbors.
• Genesis 19:30-36: Incest Prophet Lot had sex with his 2 virgin daughters and became pregnant.
• Genesis 30:14-17: Polygamy and incest Prophet Jacob had both Leah and her sister Rachel as wives.
• Genesis 38:6-10: Peeping God killed Onan when he practiced “ejaculation withdrawal” (a form of birth control today) during sex with his wife Tamar.
• Deuteronomy 22:28-29: In case of rape involving a virgin woman, the virgin was required to marry his attacker. In effect this legalized rape of a virgin woman.
• Joshua 7:20-25: The father Achan committed a sin from which his whole family was stoned to death including his sons, his daughters, his animals and his tent.
• Exodus 20:5-6: A jealous God cursed those who worshipper of other god including their children down to the 3rd and 4th generation.
Ezekiel 4:12-15: let people eat baked bread made of cow manure (if not of human dung)
• Leviticus 16:27: God wanted offering made of dung
• Malachi 2:2-3: God wanted to spread dung in the face of his followers.
• Isaiah 36:12: A warrior servant warned that they have their enemies eat their own dung and drink their own urine.

 

[sedonaman]

You call our God a god of hate. Look at your own. Please explain these to me.

Numbers 21:4-9: God killed followers who were complaining to Moses the lack of water and foods while travelling the dessert.
• Leviticus 10:1-5: God killed Nadab and Abihu (nephews of Moses) when God dislikes the scent of the bonfire offered for Him.
• 1 Samuel 6:19: God killed curious people who look at the “Ark of the Covenant” plus another 50,070 were also killed by God.
• Genesis 19:12-26: While escaping the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God killed Lot’s wife when she merely looked back at the city while under-going devastation also by God.
• 1 Chronicles 13:7-11: While the ‘Ark of the Covenant’ was being transported it tilted and about to fall-down. Servant Uzzah instinctively touched/held it to prevent from falling. God killed him for this.
• 2 Samuel 24:1-15: God ordered David to count his fighters/soldiers then for unstated reason, god killed 70,000 of them.
• Exodus 32:35: God killed those who worship Pagan God-Golden Calf created by Aaron (brother of Moses)
• Numbers 25:1-9: By order of God, Moses double-killed Israelites with his Midianite girlfriend then another 24,000 were again killed by God.
• Numbers 16:1-35: When 250 Israel men challenged the single leadership style of Moses. God killed them all. The next day, another 14,700 were killed by God.
• 1 Kings 18:17-40: When Yahweh (God of Israel) won a contest against Baal (God of Syria) as to which one is the true God, all the 450 prophets of Baal were killed as the prize.
• Luke 19:27: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."- Jesus Christ
“The Bible is no longer even regarded as moral. Its verses have been used to affirm war, slavery, segregation and apartheid. It defines women as inferior creatures and suggests that homosexual persons be put to death”- Bishop John Shelby Spong.
• Genesis 19:1-6: Prophet Lot appeared as pimp when he offered his 2 virgin daughters to replace his 2 male/angel house guests wanted to be gang-raped by his neighbors.
• Genesis 19:30-36: Incest Prophet Lot had sex with his 2 virgin daughters and became pregnant.
• Genesis 30:14-17: Polygamy and incest Prophet Jacob had both Leah and her sister Rachel as wives.
• Genesis 38:6-10: Peeping God killed Onan when he practiced “ejaculation withdrawal” (a form of birth control today) during sex with his wife Tamar.
• Deuteronomy 22:28-29: In case of rape involving a virgin woman, the virgin was required to marry his attacker. In effect this legalized rape of a virgin woman.
• Joshua 7:20-25: The father Achan committed a sin from which his whole family was stoned to death including his sons, his daughters, his animals and his tent.
• Exodus 20:5-6: A jealous God cursed those who worshipper of other god including their children down to the 3rd and 4th generation.
Ezekiel 4:12-15: let people eat baked bread made of cow manure (if not of human dung)
• Leviticus 16:27: God wanted offering made of dung
• Malachi 2:2-3: God wanted to spread dung in the face of his followers.
• Isaiah 36:12: A warrior servant warned that they have their enemies eat their own dung and drink their own urine.

God “kills” everybody, ultimately.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Islam does not allow killing of any peaceful person. he may be a believer or non-believer. If you have anything then bring it from the Quran and show us.

Do not show any verse of the Quran which tells Muslims to deal harshly against the Kafirs. It is necessary to fight and even kill a kafir, in battle. Otherwise, there is no permission to fight any one. There have been many Kafir in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Try to learn the truth please. **

If this is true, then why did not a single Islamic cleric call for the death of the Taliban who killed so many innocents?

Why did no Islamic government send soldiers to Pakistan to stop the murdering of innocents.

Why have the Imams not issued a Fatwa against the government of Sudan for killing Christians and Animists?

I’m listening.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**I am not attacking any one. The other party is attacking my religion. Since when did it beome mandatory for men to have only One wife. Jospeh the Carpentar had mor ethan one wife. he was a married person and he took Mary as his second wife. Jacob son of Issac had 4 wives. King Soloman had 300 wives. You are the odd one out. I would not say more than that. Youa re already fed up to boiling point.

I would repeat: Any one who is biased should not talk about human rights.
**.

Yet you have defined yourself as biased in your diatribe about non-muslims not knowing good things.

Furthermore while serial Polygamy (actually polygyny) has always been a feature of life (if your spouse dies you may get married again) parallel polygamy has not. Mahomet’s taking of a 9 year old girl and raping her and calling it marriage is not the same as Joseph taking a second wife who was of child bearing years after his first wife died.

 

[cthulhubryan]

You call our God a god of hate. Look at your own. Please explain these to me.

• Luke 19:27: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."- Jesus Christ
“The Bible is no longer even regarded as moral. Its verses have been used to affirm war, slavery, segregation and apartheid. It defines women as inferior creatures and suggests that homosexual persons be put to death”- Bishop John Shelby Spong.

Yes, God in the old Testament was an angry God as he plainly described himself.

Next we find an old Muslim trick of taking things out of context. The quote that Christos so vilely attributes to the teaching of Christ is actually part of a parable and thus is not literal.

Lastly, John Shelby Spong is no true Bishop. He was an Episcopal Bishop being “retiring” and his words have brought him into conflict within even that troubled body.
He seeks to bring about things clearly condemned in the Bible.
Quoting him is the last gasp of one without a leg to stand upon.

 

[distracted]

You call our God a god of hate. Look at your own. Please explain these to me.

Numbers 21:4-9: God killed followers who were complaining to Moses the lack of water and foods while travelling the dessert.
• Leviticus 10:1-5: God killed Nadab and Abihu (nephews of Moses) when God dislikes the scent of the bonfire offered for Him.
• 1 Samuel 6:19: God killed curious people who look at the “Ark of the Covenant” plus another 50,070 were also killed by God.
• Genesis 19:12-26: While escaping the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God killed Lot’s wife when she merely looked back at the city while under-going devastation also by God.
• 1 Chronicles 13:7-11: While the ‘Ark of the Covenant’ was being transported it tilted and about to fall-down. Servant Uzzah instinctively touched/held it to prevent from falling. God killed him for this.
• 2 Samuel 24:1-15: God ordered David to count his fighters/soldiers then for unstated reason, god killed 70,000 of them.
• Exodus 32:35: God killed those who worship Pagan God-Golden Calf created by Aaron (brother of Moses)
• Numbers 25:1-9: By order of God, Moses double-killed Israelites with his Midianite girlfriend then another 24,000 were again killed by God.
• Numbers 16:1-35: When 250 Israel men challenged the single leadership style of Moses. God killed them all. The next day, another 14,700 were killed by God.
• 1 Kings 18:17-40: When Yahweh (God of Israel) won a contest against Baal (God of Syria) as to which one is the true God, all the 450 prophets of Baal were killed as the prize.
• Luke 19:27: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."- Jesus Christ
.

God gives life and He can take it… I was NOT talking about God taking life… i was talking about humans taking life… for no good (holy) reason… Capital punishment is about the only time taking a life is necessary, other than self-defense or to save someone else’s life.

killing 3000 people you dont’ know… just because some uh… humanoid… (temptation, tempation!!!) who lived in the 8th century says so… is not in that category…

 

[distracted]

If this is true, then why did not a single Islamic cleric call for the death of the Taliban who killed so many innocents?

Why did no Islamic government send soldiers to Pakistan to stop the murdering of innocents.

Why have the Imams not issued a Fatwa against the government of Sudan for killing Christians and Animists?

I’m listening.

for sure…

is Sudan Islamic?

 

[distracted]

Yet you have defined yourself as biased in your diatribe about non-muslims not knowing good things.

Furthermore while serial Polygamy (actually polygyny) has always been a feature of life (if your spouse dies you may get married again) parallel polygamy has not. Mahomet’s taking of a 9 year old girl and raping her and calling it marriage is not the same as Joseph taking a second wife who was of child bearing years after his first wife died.

and we don’t even know that that was thecase…

at least that is what i heard, that the Church doesn’t take a definite posiiton on whether Joseph was married before…

 

[distracted]

Yes, God in the old Testament was an angry God as he plainly described himself.

.

God is not only angry in the OT…

He is angry at sin every day… and those who commit it, esp those who promote it and try to get others to sin and lose thier souls…

I TOTALLY u/stand where Jesus says there are few who find the narrow way to eternal life… One reason they don’t find it is because thye are too busy listening to human “gurus” and not to God…

God wants peace and love between people of the Earth… He doesn’t want war and other kinds of murders (abortion)…

People are too focused on THIS world to think about the next. Yes, its hard to focus on a world you know virtually nothing about… maybe that’s one reason Jesus had to come in the flesh… (the main reason was to pay the price of our sins but there were other reasons)…

Islam is just another of the religions that came after that of Christ…

and do not adhere to Crhistian principles… There are SO many of those in the world…

Those who reject Jesus and His ways end up in Hell…

… whether you believe your God (Mohammed, etc… ) is better than Him or not…

i can believe in Santa Claus coming to visit me at Christmas… doesn’t mean he exists much less that he is going to save me from Hell…

better to focus on a world we don’t know anything about… because we ALL have to die some day… The young think they will never grow old… but they grow old… The middle aged don’t necessarily think about dying all the time… yet thye die…

does something come after that??? If you tend to think not… I say… Why take a chance…

 

[dzheremi]

is Sudan Islamic?

Officially, no. They’re a republic. Bashir’s coup in 1989 did install an Islamic government which introduced Sharia law in the north, but the National Islamic Front that ruled the country from the time of the coup changed its name after 1993 to the National Congress Party and started to include some non-Muslim members from the Christian/animist south. The Arabization and Islamization still goes on, though, so how much it matters that the government is not officially Islamic depends on who you listen to and side with.

The Sudanese constitution (available here) recognizes the Christian minority, when it says in article 1:

“The State of Sudan is a country of racial and cultural harmony and religious tolerance. Islam is the religion of the majority of the population and Christianity and traditional religions have a large following.” (emphasis mine)

It is interesting how Christianity is not considered a traditional religion, given the historical presence of Christian kingdoms in Kush/Meroe centuries before Islam was ever conceived of.

The southern Sudanese will have the oportunity to vote for autonomy in 2011 as part of the peace agreement made between the SPLA and the government in 2005. Let’s hope they go for it!

 

[seraphime2008]

Don’t be an aggressor

“Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression.” Quran 5:2

Wish peace to the disbelievers

So, turn away from them (disbelievers) and wish them peace.” (43:89)

Don’t return hatred with hatred

And do not let ill-will towards any folk incite you so that you swerve from dealing justly. Be just; that is nearest to heedfulness Quran 5:8

No compulsion in religion

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.” 2:256

meet other people from other cultures

“O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).”
Quran 49:13

Do good to others

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion. Any who take them as friends are wrongdoers. (Qur’an, 60:8-9)

respect Monasteries, Churches and Synagogues since they are God’s houses

…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God’s name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Qur’an, 22:40)

don’t be abusive toward disbelievers and pagans

“Do not revile those whom they invoke other than Allah.” (6:108)

Be respectful and gentle when you preach to others

Invite (people) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good counsel. And argue with them in the best of manners. Surely, your Lord knows best the one who deviates from His way, and He knows best the ones who are on the right path.” (16:125)

Ok…so Koran has those wisdom in it, but at the same time has the other aggresive, merciless and violant verses as well towards the same matter. So…it seems that your Allah is a confused god who doesn’t know the principle of “consistency”. A god who doesn’t know that people no matter what will have their own will. Only in one book of teachings and in 23 years of Muhammad prophethood, ur god has seem to be more like a person facing dillemas, nice and meek sometimes when in the good mood or in a good acceptance, violant and merciless other time in a bad mood. Ur God is a projection of human being swaying from one mood to another, or from the feeling of grandeur sometime, then later or on giving up hope. Ur God seem to have a changing will too.

U can’t say that we have inconsistency of teaching in NT. But if God was projected as God the jealous and high tempered in OT, u have to see the context of it, It was dedicated solely first to teach and chastise the Israelites, the one nation chosen in the old testament to be the example of other people, when most other nations were pagans , and when no other nations have ever had the concept of One True God, let alone the Law.

But the NT is emphasising the New Law which has already been roughly understood in the OT, the Law of Love.

I don’t think God the Father will be confused later on to get us back to the OT approach of judgement towards people like ur Koran. And I don’t think that God will allow both ways of offering mercy but at the same time threatening people with violance with people as the judge and executor because then God is inconsistent, and will seem to have inability to judge and do the work Himself.

 

[distracted]

Officially, no. They’re a republic. Bashir’s coup in 1989 did install an Islamic government which introduced Sharia law in the north, but the National Islamic Front that ruled the country from the time of the coup changed its name after 1993 to the National Congress Party and started to include some non-Muslim members from the Christian/animist south. The Arabization and Islamization still goes on, though, so how much it matters that the government is not officially Islamic depends on who you listen to and side with.

The Sudanese constitution (available here) recognizes the Christian minority, when it says in article 1:

“The State of Sudan is a country of racial and cultural harmony and religious tolerance. Islam is the religion of the majority of the population and Christianity and traditional religions have a large following.” (emphasis mine)

It is interesting how Christianity is not considered a traditional religion, given the historical presence of Christian kingdoms in Kush/Meroe centuries before Islam was ever conceived of.

The southern Sudanese will have the oportunity to vote for autonomy in 2011 as part of the peace agreement made between the SPLA and the government in 2005. Let’s hope they go for it!

thanks… that was intersting… I’m not up on geography and what kind of gov’t other countries have…

Do you know the best way to find this kind of thing out - without poring over thousands of books?
i-net??
i kinda like books, though…

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks. I read a lot and watch a lot of documentaries. There are a lot of documentaries these days about the Sudanese situation because of the Darfur crisis. In fact, EWTN just did an episode of “Sunday Night Live” with Fr. Groeschel last Sunday featuring Fr. Herald Brock of CFR Sudan Mission. It was pretty interesting. Here is the blog about that, written by Fr. Brock himself.