What religion is correct if the Catholic religion isn't? Also, my doubts.

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I don’t have any problem with any moral teachings of the Church. I follow the moral teachings and other precepts. If the Catholic faith in not true, then I doubt if any other religion is more true. So maybe, man has not found the truth and is not meant to know it?
I understand a little better now.

To me too, the whole God question outweighs the “which religion” question.

The whole idea of the incarnation is the biggest attraction to Catholicism for me.
Only, I harbor many doubts, and I wonder if any religion is true.
What do you find or suspect is untrue about Catholicism?

If you live a Catholic life and the Catholic Church is right, you have paradise when you die.

If the Church is wrong, you’ll never know. But you still would have led a great life.
 
1.) Read John 6. The whole chapter is Jesus basically saying (literally), “You must eat my body and drink my blood to have life.” Also, the Last Supper, “This is my body, this is my blood…”
Revelations 7: 9-17 talks about the vision of the multitude of people, from all races and all nations, who are standing before the Throne and the Lamb. This is Heaven, and is also the Catholic Mass. The Mass is Heaven on earth, and we share in the Eternal Sacrifice, the Lamb. Some will say that we re-sacrifice Christ. Not so, for the Lamb is eternal, and we share in that eternal feast.

2.) We believe that the Eucharist is truly the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. When the priest calls on the Holy Spirit to consecrate the bread and wine, that is transubstantiation. What the Holy Spirit sanctifies, Jesus is present.

3.) The priest during the Consecration is in a state called “In Persona Christi”. In other words, Jesus Himself is consecrating the bread and wine into Himself. A priest, in a state of mortal sin, is still able to perform Mass because of this. When you receive from the priest, you receive from Christ. How cool and awesome is that?!

For your other question about God… God is uncreated. He always was, is, and ever will be. God told Moses, “I Am who I Am, the One who Is. Tell them I Am sent you.”
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              Jesus also says that, "Before Abraham, I Am."
God is eternal. He is the Alpha and the Omega. Us mere mortals are unable to perceive the depths of God’s existence.
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No, we do not make up the idea of God simply to satisfy a need to explain things. God revealed Himself to us so that we may be with Him. Look at the other world religions, both past and present. None come close to the greatness of Christianity. None of their gods gave themselves up for the sake of humanity. Ours did and blessed be God forever!
011:023 Cor 11: For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
011:024 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
011:025 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
010:016 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
010:017 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
010:018 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
010:019 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
010:020 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
010:021 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils
 
It doesn’t seem as if God takes much active interest in the world. He appears to leave many things to chance, and doesn’t seem to intervene in the affairs of men. One thing that really doesn’t make sense is why people would be born as helpless babies into a crazy world, and be sent to Hell if they made choices in life that separated them from God. Well, God actually seems to keep very hidden from us and doesn’t visibly interact with us, so that doesn’t seem like a very fair set up to expect people to read his mind or to believe in him when he’s not exactly going out of his way to even meet us halfway. Where is he? Why doesn’t he make himself more obvious? It hardly seems like a fair way to run things.
Hi Drifting,

It certainly doesn’t seem to me that a loving God takes an interest in the world either. I saw a little baby girl on TV born without a rectum. Her whole life she will use a bag to go to the tiolet. The bag is piped into her. She can’t eat solid food either. This is just one tiny example of what is supposedly God’s will.

Maybe she will grow up and decide not to believe in the ‘truth’ as taught by the Christian religion. In this case some christians say she will then go to hell for all eternity.

I think religion is ok if it gives you comfort, but if it torments you (and it is tormenting you, just like it tormented me) then it is time to leave it. This is never easy mostly due to childhood fears (intentionally placed there by well meaning people with the same fears they’re on this board en masse)

Most people adopt the religion of their parents, I certainly did.

Think about the sort of being who could create a universe like this, in terms of intelligence and power. Then ask why would such a creatue be so interested in whether I believe in him or not? Is he that insecure, that he would punish you in hell for all eternity for making a decision your brain predisposed you to make?

Why would this be so important to such a being?

I think the explanation is that without this belief as the overriding factor, the religion would die off this is why it is drummed into us. Like a virus it must be passed from one to another and this is how it works.

You need to look at the current scientific state of brain research, consousness is in the brian 100%. It is hard to accept, but you will not survive your death. If you can accept that the world is unfair (that’s evident) and that you will die, then you can move beyond daydreams and live life as it really is.

These fears are very strong, statistically it’s unlikely that you make it, but I promise if you do, it will be such a relief, it was for me! 🙂

You’re asking the right questions. Keep trying.
 
Drifting:

Remember that God works through Human Hands, Human Hearts, and Human minds.
 
Hi Drifting,

It certainly doesn’t seem to me that a loving God takes an interest in the world either. I saw a little baby girl on TV born without a rectum. Her whole life she will use a bag to go to the tiolet. The bag is piped into her. She can’t eat solid food either. This is just one tiny example of what is supposedly God’s will.

Maybe she will grow up and decide not to believe in the ‘truth’ as taught by the Christian religion. In this case some christians say she will then go to hell for all eternity.

I think religion is ok if it gives you comfort, but if it torments you (and it is tormenting you, just like it tormented me) then it is time to leave it. This is never easy mostly due to childhood fears (intentionally placed there by well meaning people with the same fears they’re on this board en masse)

Most people adopt the religion of their parents, I certainly did.

Think about the sort of being who could create a universe like this, in terms of intelligence and power. Then ask why would such a creatue be so interested in whether I believe in him or not? Is he that insecure, that he would punish you in hell for all eternity for making a decision your brain predisposed you to make?

Why would this be so important to such a being?

I think the explanation is that without this belief as the overriding factor, the religion would die off this is why it is drummed into us. Like a virus it must be passed from one to another and this is how it works.

You need to look at the current scientific state of brain research, consousness is in the brian 100%. It is hard to accept, but you will not survive your death. If you can accept that the world is unfair (that’s evident) and that you will die, then you can move beyond daydreams and live life as it really is.

These fears are very strong, statistically it’s unlikely that you make it, but I promise if you do, it will be such a relief, it was for me! 🙂

You’re asking the right questions. Keep trying.
Drifting, there you have it, straight from the devil’s mouth!

Please don’t listen to this waffle. Satan is the father of all lies…
 
Drifting, there you have it, straight from the devil’s mouth!

Please don’t listen to this waffle. Satan is the father of all lies…
Now the idea that I am the devil himself, I’m sure you know that’s utter rubbish.

I may be wrong, but I’m not intentionally lieing. This is what I believe, and I’m entitled to express it without being demonized.

When you have to demonize a human being you supposedly believe was created in God’s image you are very far from the truth youself.
 
Now the idea that I am the devil himself, I’m sure you know that’s utter rubbish.

I may be wrong, but I’m not intentionally lieing. This is what I believe, and I’m entitled to express it without being demonized.

When you have to demonize a human being you supposedly believe was created in God’s image you are very far from the truth youself.
Gareth, of course I don’t mean you’re the devil but leading someone away from God is most certainly devilish. You may not believe in God but neither can prove that He doesn’t exist.

Let’s say Drifting is convinced by your argument and dies not believing in God. Would you hold yourself partially responsible for his fate?

What you’re saying is very dangerous and evil but you probably don’t realize it yet. I believe in God and some day you will too. I just pray it happens before you die.

God bless,
Noel.
 
First off God is not a “creature”. He is The Creator. God created us and gave us the gift of “freewill”. God is not to blame when all goes wrong. People use their freewill and make mistakes and sin. Their sins affect us in bad ways. People drive drunk and kill people, not God. People load guns and shoot people,not God. Our choices both good and bad affect us.

Second if you are looking for “proof” of the one true church of Christ. Then do your homework. Protestant churches did not exist before 1517. From 2007 allllllllllllllll the way back to 33ad. there was only the Catholic Church. St. Peter’s bones are in the Vatican St.Paul’s bones are at another Catholic Church in Rome and so on and so on. When an Apostle was martyred a chruch was built to “house” their remains. St. Matthew is in a Catholic Church in Sicily, Italy. The New Testament was put together by Pope Damasus and St Jerome and other Bishops of the Catholic Church around 382 ad.

And what about the Bishops the Apostles left in charge of different churches? St. Ignatius was the third Bishop left in charge by St. Peter himself and taught under St. John, and St. Ignatius wrote letters. Look up the letters from The Early Church Fathers.

And if reading Catholic history from a Catholic source doesn’t convince you check out non-religious source. The History Channel has a website read your dictionary look up things like the Latin Vulgate,Didache, Catholic Church, the Protestant Reformation, things like that.

Check out Roman History they have the list of the Emperors and kings of the times of Christ. King Herod, Pontius Piolet, Cesar Augustus. You have to know the names of the Main people involved in the story of our salvation then look them up in history. The Pharoh from the time of Moses and so forth.

But if you don’t know scripture or the main stories of the bible, none of this will make any sense.

Also what about the Eucharistic Miracles? The Virgin appearing like Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe? Padre Pio? The people who suffered under stigmata?
Learn your Faith,Live your Faith, then you’ll Love your Faith and shine with the Light of Jesus then you’ll reflect your Faith!

sorry about any misspellings I’m on my lunch break:D
 
My doubts are:
My Dear Friend,

First of all I will pray for you as you as you struggle with your doubts. Believe me, you aren’t the first and won’t be the last to have such questions. It was either C.S. Lewis or G.K. Chesterton who described Catholicism as “too good to be true” but not in a negative way. He was saying that is why some people won’t convert.
  1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
As was mentioned, start with chapter 6 of Saint John’s gospel but also read Saint Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, I think the first one somewhere in chapter 10. Remember as you read it that Paul only knew the risen Christ, he never saw Him when He was alive. Also read Revelation as was mentioned and the writings of the early church fathers. When you put it all together you will see that the Apostles knew exactly what Jesus meant when He told them that we must eat His Flesh and drink His blood.
  1. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim?
History shows that all other branches of Christianity came from the Catholic Church. The bible was protected and written by the Church and handed down through the ages. You can even read some history such as that of the early Roman empire to see that the Catholic Church is the original Christian church. It was called Catholic as early as 107 AD, more as a description than as a name. I would suggest listening to Tim Staples’ tape on the four marks of the Church. He does a great job of tying the history together with faith and tradition.
  1. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed?
Again, read the bible especially Acts. The same power and authority that Jesus gave His apostles was handed down by them to their successors. Jesus did not say His church would end with the death of the last Apostle but that He would be with His Church all days until the consumation of the earth. Remember, though, priests are men. They should be respected for the vocation they have been chosen for but should not be worshiped. Christ’s Church is both human and divine, with sheep and goats, saints and sinners. All of us must continually strive for that holiness that will bring us to salvation some day and that includes the priests.

These are my 3 most main doubts.

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?🤷

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?:confused:
It takes Faith to believe in God. Even pagans who believed in a sun god, moon god or whatever, had some sort of faith. They didn’t know how their gods did the things they said they did but they definitely believed that there was a power greater than themselves. Don’t try to attached human aspects to God. It doesn’t work. Our feeble human minds can not comprehend such awesome might and the infinity of God.
Again, I will say a prayer for you as you wrestle with these questions.

In Christ,
yankeebob
 
Good luck drifting, I’ve said enough. This is the place for Catholic answers not Atheist / Deist ones.

Its true, no one can prove there is no God, just like I can’t proof there aren’t fairies down the end of the garden, it’s just pretty improbable.

This thread is anoying me so I’ll say goodbye and good luck. One final piece of advice, stop drifting and start running.😃
 
Well.

I have been (loosely) following your posts, drifting, and while I am a non-theist, I neither advocate staying active in your faith, nor immediate apostasy. I am very aware how painful this must be, and recommend taking your time in making your decisions.

Perhaps just taking some time to contemplate on your own, and looking at the world around you, the people in it - and you may well find beauty and truth and purpose, whether or not there is a deity or deities, and that may be enough. If you find such a thought troubling in itself, it might help to think of it as a kind of spiritual humility and asceticism. I find myself content, hopeful and joyous with the world’s wonders, and the good and potential for good of my fellow humans, without feeling the need or desire for the attention of a god or the reassurance of a religion.

On the other hand, your time of considering may lead you back to your faith, or possibly to another form of worship, and that is wonderful too. But please, do not just rush towards the first religion that appears to offer an end to all your doubts, since that’s usually a recipe for heartbreak. Have patience, with yourself especially, and don’t despair. 🙂
 
driftng away posted:
God actually seems to keep very hidden from us and doesn’t visibly interact with us,
Yes that is very true.

I find He interacts least when I give Him the signals not to! :o
 
It doesn’t seem as if God takes much active interest in the world. He appears to leave many things to chance, and doesn’t seem to intervene in the affairs of men. One thing that really doesn’t make sense is why people would be born as helpless babies into a crazy world, and be sent to Hell if they made choices in life that separated them from God. Well, God actually seems to keep very hidden from us and doesn’t visibly interact with us, so that doesn’t seem like a very fair set up to expect people to read his mind or to believe in him when he’s not exactly going out of his way to even meet us halfway. Where is he? Why doesn’t he make himself more obvious? It hardly seems like a fair way to run things.
That is actually a good question. George B. Shaw said something similar; If I ever meet God, the first thing I shall ask is " why didn’t you make Yourself more obvious "? ( paraphase)
It seems that God is beyond materiality, so we really can’t conceive of Him, in our brains(consciousness), the way we like to put boundaries and limits on things. Maybe that is why He was revealed to the Hebrews within the bush that burned but was not consumed. He was the YHWH. the " I AM that I AM. We really dont have the words. The Hebrews knew to name something was to limit it. The Revelation was without limit.
Seek God in story, in metaphor, in suffering. Go where there is suffering, and you will meet God and he will touch you.
 
Hi Drifting,

It certainly doesn’t seem to me that a loving God takes an interest in the world either. I saw a little baby girl on TV born without a rectum. Her whole life she will use a bag to go to the tiolet. The bag is piped into her. She can’t eat solid food either. This is just one tiny example of what is supposedly God’s will.
What makes you think it was God’s will for her to be born that way? The Devil also lives here, and the Devil is always breaking things and wrecking things that God has created.

I am very sure that it was not God’s will for that child to be born without a rectum.
Maybe she will grow up and decide not to believe in the ‘truth’ as taught by the Christian religion. In this case some christians say she will then go to hell for all eternity.
It’s true that she might come to think like that. It’s also possible that she will realize that she has survived an attack from the Devil, and that, because of God’s grace in her, she is the winner, and has victory over the Devil even though he damaged her body quite badly.
 
I apologise for drifting from the thread, but ask Drifting away, have you ever thought about the odds against you being born?

Without going into the biology, you had around a 40,000 000 -1 chance. Think about the likeli-hood of your father meeting your mother and your grandparents etc etc, magnify that by the opportunties to procreate and you find that the odds against you being born are not in the millions to one nor even billions to one but actually trillions to one. Yet you exist, no one else but you. Your parents had ‘unique U’!

Was that coincidence?

If you think the answer is yes, would you like to enter the raffle again with odds of trillions to one and rely on you winning?

The inescapable fact is that actually there are no odds on it, you exist because God willed you to, that isn’t a raffle but an absolute certainty. God knew you from all eternity 🙂 That is our faith
 
I hate to jump into a conversation on page 6.

Why is God so hidden? Why doesn’t he just jump out of a cloud and say “Hi y’all”? Because at that instant all free will would be gone. Proof would end our ability to please God.

Let’s look at it this way. Do you remember the first time your parents left you home alone for an extended period of time? Maybe over a weekend? You had a couple of real choices to make, didn’t you? You could be the sort of child your parents hoped you were and obey every rule, or you could abuse your new found freedom and exploit the situation. What did you do when you thought nobody was watching?

Same situation with God. If God were to appear in front of you today and never leave your side, you wouldn’t get the chance to prove you were the man he created you to be. You would only be doing the right thing because God is 2 feet away from you. That is not what God wants from us. He wants us to grow and learn, not obey because we fear him. He is proudest of us when we do the right thing out of love and respect. He is disappointed, but forgiving, when we fail.

So here we are now, left to our choices. We were given instructions by the Lord before he left and told he would be back home soon. What will we do with the time we have been given? Do we throw a party and risk him coming home early? Or do we obey Him because we love Him, and even though we know we can get away with it, we keep his rules. To break them would break our own hearts as much as His.

Stay strong, God bless.
 
OMGOSH… it’s the sinners prayer… the hocus pocus, say it and be saved magic spell…

Really! And to think, Jesus never gave us that prayer!!! No thanks, I will stick with Jesus’s instruction on prayer:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be
Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done,
on earth, as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our
daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us
not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Or how about something else from the Bible:

.

BibleBeliever… how do you explain this:
2 Thessalonians 2
14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Doesn’t that mean that we should not depend on the Bible Alone?
can you please tell me where in the bible is this prayer? Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is
the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now, and at the hour of our death. Amen
 
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