Wow… Imagine if they took the “Fix your own country” advise from you. I’m sure that is half the reason we look the other way. If we closed the border then there would be revolution in Mexico. Then the 12 million here would flood the immigration courts with a valid reason to be here… political asylum.Yes…I agree that they are children of God, but if you carry your logic to its ultimate end, this country, if the person says he or she wants to come in here, must let (due to the “all God’s children” argument) all people in here, there will be no country, no laws, and we will bankrupt this nation (even more than we are now)—in a word–disaster for this nation. I mean, under your logic, whatever “God’s children” say they want–they get!, simply because they say “I need it.” They can sneak in here, trash the farms and land they cross over, steal SS #s, get low wages under the table, cheat people out of jobs who are on the “legal” immigration list, get free education for their kids, get free medical care—If that is what it takes to get the “Gods children” argument to work. Don’t Gods children have a duty to do ANYTHING?? How about God’s Bishops in the country, where they came from, FIXING the problem so God’s children from (let’s say) Mexico, dont feel they HAVE TO escape the country.
I have NO legal, Christian or national duty to illegals except make sure that I, or someone else (if I know), don’t sin against those persons, (abuse them) and make sure the people who gave them the carrott to entice them to come here (like the employers who know they are illegal and help the conspiracy) are punished so that it wont happen again.
This nation has no duty to take care of all the people who WANT to come here.
We dont have jobs, money, or anything else to give people who have violated the laws of this country. We cant satisfy the needs of everyone, individually or as a nation. Try this—Go Home and Fix Your Country Before You Ask…Not Demand…To Come Here !
I was thinking the same thing. I am late to this thread and I think some of you need to re-examine first the thread title and then your hearts. The Church is not a law enforcement entitity. It is the Bride of Christ. The role of the Church is to minister to all in need, even as Chrsit Himself he did. Period. First, that role should be tending to the spiritual needs of all, regardelss of what language is needed. Second, the Church should practice charity to the neediest, regardless of citizenship,language or immigration status.It saddens me to see so much hatred towards any kind of human there is. Especially from CAF members. I suspect that now that we are in, lets just close the borders all other human beings.
And what is the Church’s role in dealing with “lawbreakers”? The Church may have a responsibility to obey laws that are otherwise moral, but I don’t think the Church has a general role in enforcing the nation’s laws. Whether a person is poor may or may not be relevant to the country’s decision on how to deal with that person, that depends on the country’s laws. It is certainly relevant to the Church’s decisions, which depend on God’s laws.They are illegal and to be handled like any ohter lawbreakers. Whether they are poor or not is irrelevant.
Which goes right back to two points:If we closed our border, (like the law requires and the lawmakers take an oath to enforce) and there was revolution in Mexico, maybe then Mexico would change its corrupt government and then the citizens of THAT country could…FIX IT ! They wouldn’t be sending their poor, less- than-high-school educated people here to take free stuff Mexico wont give them…and paid for by Americans. You people who just love to feel good about how good you want to treat all the illegals, you tell me, just how do we do it? and what other law is it ok to violate just because it makes you fellow Catholics feel good, or it is some sort of church teaching other than take care of the world. How do you want to pay for that world to be taken care of? Can you Catholics just wish it were so, or do you have any common sense. Its not “hate” to look at the situation and then answer logical questions about what this nation would look like if you have NO border and have everyone who comes here illegally getting free education, have their kids be citizens and anchor babies, and then uncle Jose from Mexico and everyone who wants to come (dont laugh–its the facts) and free medical, and cutting the feet out from under the LEGAL immigrants we welcome by the under the table jobs the illegals get. So—you go ahead and feel good about feeding and taking care of all the people in the world, and giving all the freebies they get, but then you tell me how much YOU want to pay to do it. Your money not mine. So if the church wants to practice “charity” it shoud be to legal residents and Americans who are poor, need jobs and have not vioated any laws ! How about taking care of the parishoners who put money in the collection plate? Read this----we dont have enough MONEY !
Remember give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? Why do so many want to make that an exceptipn? They are breaking our laws by being here, round them up and deport them. If we dont have enough law enforcement to do that, take the lawenforcement off of the failed war on drugs and put them on the war on illegal immigration.And what is the Church’s role in dealing with “lawbreakers”? The Church may have a responsibility to obey laws that are otherwise moral, but I don’t think the Church has a general role in enforcing the nation’s laws. Whether a person is poor may or may not be relevant to the country’s decision on how to deal with that person, that depends on the country’s laws. It is certainly relevant to the Church’s decisions, which depend on God’s laws.
The law does not or never as it required a close border.If we closed our border, (like the law requires and the lawmakers take an oath to enforce)
The second part of that saying is “… and render unto God the things that are God’s.” What you did was classic proof-texting to twist scripture to its opposite meaning. God requires us to love all our neighbors and be charitable to all without prejudice. Our duty to our nation means that the Church should not, for example, be assisting in the violation of the law, but that does not mean that those who do break the law are excluded from acts of charity. The Church should not “round them up and deport them”.Remember give to Caesar what is Caesar’s?
But our lawenforcement should. 15 years ago an unliscensed illegal alien did a hit and run car crash on me for which I had no recourse for the damage he caused, now this year about 2 weeks ago the same happened to a good friend of mine. I’m not saying beat them to a pulp or anything like that, I’m just saying deport them. We have an obligation to be humane to our countryment and those immigrants who came here legally.The second part of that saying is “… and render unto God the things that are God’s.” What you did was classic proof-texting to twist scripture to its opposite meaning. God requires us to love all our neighbors and be charitable to all without prejudice. Our duty to our nation means that the Church should not, for example, be assisting in the violation of the law, but that does not mean that those who do break the law are excluded from acts of charity. The Church should not “round them up and deport them”.
Then perhaps we should stick to the topic of this thread, specifically the Church’s role in aiding illegal immigrants. The moderator has warned on this topic and gotten his ruler. It will be confusing if we go off on our favorite political agendas instead of sticking the topic at hand, as per the verse quoted, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar and unto God the things that are God’s” We are focusing on God at this time.But our lawenforcement should. 15 years ago an unliscensed illegal alien did a hit and run car crash on me for which I had no recourse for the damage he caused, now this year about 2 weeks ago the same happened to a good friend of mine.
You mention harboring a criminal - isn’t the illegal alien considered a criminal because that person’s being here is ILLEGAL? So if the Church houses the illegal alien it is housing criminals. Unless the deffinition of criminal has changed from a person who is doing something illegaly - that’s how I was brought up.I think you are hitting all of the major issues. Exodus 22:21 says we shouldn’t mistreat aliens, which really hits on your “The Church should push for sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegals.” I worked a stint at the New York Attorney General’s Office in the Labor Bureau and 90% of the work was investigating business which hired illegal aliens at wages of $1 an hour (this was 2 years ago). Some of these people were working 90 hours a week. That is mistreatment.
The church is in a very tough position because we are to feed and clothe the poor a majority illegal aliens are, but we are also to abide by the laws and governance. I don’t think feeding or housing aliens would be consider “breaking the law” unless they are harboring a criminal (which is where some of the problems occur). Only the government would have access to criminal warrants (especially international), so the Church could be unwittingly feeding and clothing someone wanted in connected with criminal activity.
Personally, I don’t think there is anything wrong with assisting an alien seek a legal status. Most fear that by applying, they will be kicked out, so they remain silient, when some could make a legitimate claim of persecution.
Jesus forgave the criminal on the cross (Gospel of Luke). I think this thread was about aliens, not criminals.You mention harboring a criminal - isn’t the illegal alien considered a criminal because that person’s being here is ILLEGAL? So if the Church houses the illegal alien it is housing criminals. Unless the deffinition of criminal has changed from a person who is doing something illegaly - that’s how I was brought up.
God Bless
Rye
O.K. - then if this is a Church thing - ministering to another human being - then maybe the Church should offer to pick up all the tabs that our US government is now picking up for the illegal aliens- I’m sure the Vatican won’t mind selling some of it’s pricelss (until it’s up for sale) artwork in order to help with these poor illegal immigrants in America-Impartiality. It shouldn’t even become an issue. If you are ministering to another human being, then that is what you do REGARDLESS of social status.
‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Matthew 25:40
And a letter to the Catholic Church should include that any church mass that you attend must be in ENGLISH and no worshipping of Aztec images to be at that church.This is the reason our silly open borders and bind admission to illegals is so ridiculous!!
"We’re moving to Mexico.
Dear Mr. President NObama:
I’m planning to move to Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I’m planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico, and I’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way down?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who come to the U.S. From Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
- Free medical care.
- English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
- Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
- I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
- Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
- I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
- Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
- I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services and be able to vote.
- I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
- In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
- I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put US. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
- I want to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
- Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say a critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
- I want to receive free food stamps.
- Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
- I’ll need Income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican Taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
- Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov’t pays $4,500 to helpme buy a new car.
- Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!
Which goes right back to two points:
- The church does not know borders.