What role should the Church have in aiding aliens

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Rye…you are right. We all believe the Biblical and church teachings about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc, etc. The problem is this: HOW? To what extent should TAXPAYER money or CHURCH FUNDS be used to pay millions of illegals benefits, and calling that “God’s work?” IF taxpayer money were not used to pay for their free health care, free education, automatic citizen-status for kids born here of illegals, undercutting Americans with cheap wage rate, crime like MS13 gang domination, clogging this work force with less-than-high school educated workers…etc.etc., they would go home, because the church will not do it, and has no money to do it… AND if they tried, the parishoners would rebell because we need the money to run our parishes…and…surprise, surprise, take care of OUR OWN POOR. So—>NO freebies…no illegal hiring by employers…they leave! No carrot to stay…they go home, because the Pew study says that the majority of illegals had jobs in Mexico before coming here. (Heck–they can work for the companies that have taken jobs TO Mexico from Americans here!.) If an illegal came to my door, hungry, and somehow I found him to BE illegal, I’d call the Border Patrol (good luck), and then feed him. Feeding the hungry doesnt mean I have to feed a guy who is stealing from my home and then give him the tv !!
Here are to good articles about the problems with illegals taking Americans jobs:

cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment

cis.org/node/1071
cis.org/ReligionAndImmigrationPoll
 
Rye…you are right. We all believe the Biblical and church teachings about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc, etc. The problem is this: HOW? To what extent should TAXPAYER money or CHURCH FUNDS be used to pay millions of illegals benefits, and calling that “God’s work?” IF taxpayer money were not used to pay for their free health care, free education, automatic citizen-status for kids born here of illegals, undercutting Americans with cheap wage rate, crime like MS13 gang domination, clogging this work force with less-than-high school educated workers…etc.etc., they would go home, because the church will not do it, and has no money to do it… AND if they tried, the parishoners would rebell because we need the money to run our parishes…and…surprise, surprise, take care of OUR OWN POOR. So—>NO freebies…no illegal hiring by employers…they leave! No carrot to stay…they go home, because the Pew study says that the majority of illegals had jobs in Mexico before coming here. (Heck–they can work for the companies that have taken jobs TO Mexico from Americans here!.) If an illegal came to my door, hungry, and somehow I found him to BE illegal, I’d call the Border Patrol (good luck), and then feed him. Feeding the hungry doesnt mean I have to feed a guy who is stealing from my home and then give him the tv !!

Believe me, I’m in total agreement with you. Perhaps I didn’t say some things correctly in my post. I think I’m just having a hard time which perhaps some others are having - I’ll try to explain - it’s a conflict between what I feel God would want me to do and how much, as an American, I/we’re willing to take. On the one hand, I think about how I’ve been taught if I see someone in need who is for instance say, hungry, I was brought up not to give them money but to go get that person something to eat. In my mind and heart, I go back to the whole situation of thinking about “whenever you did this to the least of your bretheren you did this to me…” I would hate not to help someone and then after I die have Jesus come to me and say “Why didn’t you feed me?” I have grown up all over the world and this is the only country i know of that is so laxidasical about it’s borders - but then I hear some of these Bishops - one being the Bishop in Orlando coming out and saying we need to help these people regardless of the US laws - I hear this (and of course I paraphrased what this Bishop said) - and I want to tell that Bishop - fine, you want to help, then you start giving 25% of your budget to doing all of this stuff. I know what I’m about to say is somewhat conspiratoriale sounding, but did anyone here ever wonder if these illegal aliens coming over from Mexico were let say Muslim instead of Catholic, if this might be a different situation? The majority of those crossing are Christian/Catholic- (I do have a source to back this if anyone doesn’t believe me) - I just don’t want to see our tax dollars going to do things that encourage them to stay and continue to stay - like allowing them to have drivers liscenses - and it makes me so angry that they do cross the border and seem to expect some of these things- I don’t know of any others that came to America during the Ellis Island time that didn’t expect to learn a new language - it does seem that more and more we are being expected to make accomadations for those that speak Spanish instead of English - and why should they not have to follow the rules that other immigrants from other countries that come here have to follow? I am by no means an isolationist, but really, do all of you believe that the Catholic Church would be so big on giving these aliens so much if they were Muslim or anything other than Christian/Catholic? There might be some (IMHO)- but not nearly to the extent it is now. This is one of those areas where I can’t see an answer to fix it - but I sure don’t want to continue to encourage it which I believe is what’s happening when the illegals come here and seem to get a lot of freebees.
God Bless
Rye
 
I see some of the points d97c and rye are making, both of you guys sound pretty educated in politics and economics. But accusing all spanish speaking people coming across the borders that they are Mexican…, I don’t know, but it sounds narrow minded. Way of topic now, this became a Mexican national witch hunt pretty fast wouldn’t you agree?
 
I see some of the points d97c and rye are making, both of you guys sound pretty educated in politics and economics. But accusing all spanish speaking people coming across the borders that they are Mexican…, I don’t know, but it sounds narrow minded. Way of topic now, this became a Mexican national witch hunt pretty fast wouldn’t you agree?
It wasn’t too long ago that all Americans were considered, “the ugly American”, by people south of the border. I’m sure they feel exactly the same way about Americans as Americans feel about them.
 
I quite frankly dont care what “they” think. We have sent our jobs to Mexico, (those jobs, which used to be worked by Americans) , and now we are hiring the illegal Mexicans for cheap wages, and cutting out the Americans who need the work… we have allowed the illegals to violate the law. We have been the givers…they have been the takers. It’s not an even swap …
 
they would go home, because the church will not do it, and has no money to do it… AND if they tried, the parishoners would rebell because we need the money to run our parishes…and…surprise, surprise, take care of OUR OWN POOR. So—>NO freebies…no illegal hiring by employers…they leave! No carrot to stay…they go home, because the Pew study says that the majority of illegals had jobs in Mexico before coming here. (Heck–they can work for the companies that have taken jobs TO Mexico from Americans here!.)
FYI - When people live here, legal or illegal, citizen or not, they are parishoners. They are our own poor, from the standpoint of the Church.
 
FYI - When people live here, legal or illegal, citizen or not, they are parishoners. They are our own poor, from the standpoint of the Church.
Are you a supporter of the Mexican invasion of the US? I have been told by people in the US Department of Justice that the Catholic Church is responsible for most of it. If they stopped feeding the problem, the problem would go away. Would you starve Americans to feed foreigners?
 
Praying for you brother mumbojumbo, hopefully one day soon you’ll have a change of heart and realize that we are all in this together. A world without end is a world without borders.
 
The Church does not teach a no-borders world or nation. Christ did not teach that, and the Catechism doesnt teach that. YOU may want that but thats not the Church’s teaching. So, mumbo and I are praying that YOU have a change of heart so this nation will not be a third world, Quebec-like, amalgam.

Like Theodore Roosevelt said:
We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an

American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

Teddy was right
 
The Church does not teach a no-borders world or nation. Christ did not teach that, and the Catechism doesnt teach that. YOU may want that but thats not the Church’s teaching. So, mumbo and I are praying that YOU have a change of heart so this nation will not be a third world, Quebec-like, amalgam.

Like Theodore Roosevelt said:
We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an

American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

Teddy was right
Amen! No one here would treat a robber, a muderer, a rapist, an embezeler, a ponzi schemist like they are not a criminal. So why we don’t treat someone who came here illegally even undocumented like they are a criminal is byond me.
 
Amen! No one here would treat a robber, a muderer, a rapist, an embezeler, a ponzi schemist like they are not a criminal. So why we don’t treat someone who came here illegally even undocumented like they are a criminal is byond me.
Well, there is a couple of reasons.
  1. there is no easy way to identify an illegal.
  2. If we “arrested” 25% of the illegals our immigration court would be backed up for 10 years.
  3. If we “closed” the borders, we could destablize our neighbors to the south.
 
I am concerned about America…not Mexico. Any concern about Mexico is subordinate to the concern I have about the United States because I am an American.
 
I am concerned about America…not Mexico. Any concern about Mexico is subordinate to the concern I have about the United States because I am an American.
Yes, I realize that. My point was the destabilization of any country south of us will give the aliens a chance to seek asylum which would be a legal recognition. I still haven’t searched for any of my notes for law school, but I was trying to remember what bumped people from that “illegal” status to a “legal” status, and the thing that keeps bubbling to the top is aliens requesting asylum. From what I recall, the burden is not that great. There is a recognition from the US (CIA, State Department, etc) that persecution is going on within their country and that they are a part of the persecuted class. The burden to prove this is frightfully low because, what refugee leaves their homeland with all the important papers to show they are persecuted? None.

The other thing I recall is the general premise that if a person is here illegally, then the government has no way of documenting their entry and they can say they came in yesterday or 10 years ago.

A war in Mexico would simply force all of the illegals here to say, “I just got here because I am being persecuted. Please recognize me. Please give me a work permit. Please let me stay indefinitely.”

Of course, the Church cannot endorse this, accept this or otherwise encourage this because this would be a lie. But this also gets to my OP. The Church can offer legal assistance (filling out paperwork), but if they have been feeding Jose for one year and now Jose says on his form that he arrived last week, then we have a problem. I’m not saying the Church does that now, but the Church needs to be excessively wary of this.
 
So…how does “the Church” do this. The Church is like “the government.” They have no money unless “the people” pay “the church” or “the government.” Gods mandate that we feed the hungry is a personal mandate…not a governmental mandate. Thats why I give money to monastaries and not the diocese here. This Bishop encourages illegals to cross the border, so they can get their money from someone else.
Regarding assylum… To qualify for asylum, a petitioner must show that he is a person who is outside any country of such person’s nationality . . . and who is unable or unwilling to return to, and is unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, that country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. 8 U.S.C. ß 1101(a)(42)(A). See also, 8 U.S.C. ß 1158(a). The applicable standard for withholding of deportation is similar to the standard for asylum but provides less discretion to the attorney general in deciding whether or not to deport. 8 U.S.C. ß 1253(h) provides:

(h)(1) The Attorney General shall not deport or return any alien (other than an alien described in section 241(a)(19))[3] to a country if the Attorney General determines that such alien’s life or freedom would be threatened in such country on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

Here is a case that shows the problem with all of a sudden saying…I want assylum. Too much fraud.
tamilnation.org/refugees/95USCourt.htm

I do agree that we shoud be working with Mexico to strengthen that country to make it more stable. Heck…they have so many of our jobs that have left the US, we better make sure it is stable !! BUT stabiity is not created by the Catholic Church in Mexico facilitating the sneaking into the US of their “needy.” I once again ask----WHERE ARE THE MEXICAN BISHOPS IN EFFORTS TO FIX MEXICO??
 
WOW, you are actually accusing the Mexican Catholic bishops of helping sneaking in people into the US.:eek:
 
Are you a supporter of the Mexican invasion of the US? I have been told by people in the US Department of Justice that the Catholic Church is responsible for most of it. If they stopped feeding the problem, the problem would go away.
What invasion are you talking about? I think your paranoia has the better of you. Rhetoric does not make for good arguement. What you have been told by people in the Justice Department is irrelevant. We follow Jesus, not inuendo and prejudice. It is he that said,
Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Do you really want to base the fate of your eternal soul on the opinon of bureaucrats?
Would you starve Americans to feed foreigners?
No, but I believe that to be a false dichotomy as it is not necessary for anyone in America to starve to death. The Church does not consider nationality. Period. As Paul told the Colossians:
3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all and in all. 12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and forgiving one another, if one has a grievance against another; as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do. 14 And over all these put on love, that is, the bond of perfection
 
Amen! No one here would treat a robber, a muderer, a rapist, an embezeler, a ponzi schemist like they are not a criminal. So why we don’t treat someone who came here illegally even undocumented like they are a criminal is byond me.
You do know, don’t you, that the Church also minsters to those in prison, as commanded by Jesus Himself? A person who commits a crime does not alienate himself from the mercy of the Church.
 
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