What stops a man from pursuing?

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Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
  • some are shy
  • some try too hard and are too pushy
  • some are halfway in between
Till I was 42 I was shy. Since then I have come to understand that some adaptations are needed to my autistic, dyspraxic levels of practical achievement and also that I need further emotional development too.

A bloke needs sufficient emotional development, whether he has twigged to that or not.

Exactly the same factors are relevant to a call to seminary.

Seminary years, dating, engagement, etc, are all opportunities for further discernment on all sides. There are more fish in all seas!
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Thank you. Shyness is a real problem but not insurmountable. God bless you.
 
Norseman82 said:
My last post was meant as a joke, BTW.

However, in all seriousness, here are some things stopping men from pursuing:
  1. Rude treatment.
  2. “Herd menatlity” - I heard this from a female speaker at a National Catholic Singles Conference. In other words, people of the same gender congregate together into a “herd” that the oposite gender cannot penetrate (except in a herd).
  3. Economic and employment considerations, especially if the male is conditioned to be the sole breadwinner and he is expected to have 13.8 kids. (OK, the 13.8 kids part is an attempt at humor as well).
  4. Emotional/spiritual “blackmail” using common cliches meant to discourage us (see how often they are repeated here at CAF). Examples include:
    a) Questioning your vocation to marriage and instilling doubt it is “God’s will”.
    b) Related to 4a, constantly pushing “vocation to singleness”.
    c) Saying “In God’s time, not yours” / “God has said ‘Not yet’”.
    d) Discouraging people by bringing up horror stories of married couples with misfortune.
    e) Always saying “marriage is hard work”.
    f) “You need to stop looking” / “You will find love when you least expect it”.
    g) “You need to accept/be happy being alone first”.
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Thank you for following up your first post. 😉 I think in the situation I’m thinking about, it’s possibly one of the reasons in number 4…
 
So far the reasons have seemed to either be due to poor treatment by a girl, sensing little interest or some internal “struggle” that has nothing directly to do with the lady. I guess in short, a man will either pursue or not. Other than being a good Christian and encouraging him by seeming receptive, there is nothing really more for a lady to do. 🤷
 
ZellieFan said:
So far the reasons have seemed to either be due to poor treatment by a girl, sensing little interest or some internal “struggle” that has nothing directly to do with the lady. I guess in short, a man will either pursue or not. Other than being a good Christian and encouraging him by seeming receptive, there is nothing really more for a lady to do. 🤷
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I’m not a guy, but if I have said this once I’ve said it a thousand times and it still holds true:

A guy is going to spend time and money on the things he wants to spend time and money on.

(And I don’t care if it’s $5 bucks for coffee or $500 bucks for dinner, it’s not about the amount it’s about allocation of resources. If he isn’t spending effort on you it is because he is just not that into you.)
 
Not everyone is attracted to everyone.

Men can be interested in more than one woman at a time. If one of those women is interested in this man but she does absolutely nothing to make her interest known (Just waiting for him to make a move or not really putting effort into getting to know him) she should not be surprised if this man passes her up for a woman who he is also interested in but makes her interest known to him, goes out of her way to talk to him and get to know him and gives him clear signals that she is interested in him

Fear of rejection.

Talking to a woman for awhile and realizing that you have nothing but your faith in common.

Woman sends a red flag. She sends too many mixed signals that he figures it is not worth the headache.

There could be a lot of reasons. Not even counting the ones that truly do have nothing to do with the woman but are only his personal issues. I guess fear of rejection falls into that category though.
 
Norseman82 said:
My last post was meant as a joke, BTW.

However, in all seriousness, here are some things stopping men from pursuing:
  1. Rude treatment.
  2. “Herd menatlity” - I heard this from a female speaker at a National Catholic Singles Conference. In other words, people of the same gender congregate together into a “herd” that the oposite gender cannot penetrate (except in a herd).
  3. Economic and employment considerations, especially if the male is conditioned to be the sole breadwinner and he is expected to have 13.8 kids. (OK, the 13.8 kids part is an attempt at humor as well).
  4. Emotional/spiritual “blackmail” using common cliches meant to discourage us (see how often they are repeated here at CAF). Examples include:
    a) Questioning your vocation to marriage and instilling doubt it is “God’s will”.
    b) Related to 4a, constantly pushing “vocation to singleness”.
    c) Saying “In God’s time, not yours” / “God has said ‘Not yet’”.
    d) Discouraging people by bringing up horror stories of married couples with misfortune.
    e) Always saying “marriage is hard work”.
    f) “You need to stop looking” / “You will find love when you least expect it”.
    g) “You need to accept/be happy being alone first”.
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I don’t think that 4a) is something anybody ought to say–as the blogger at Seraphic Singles says, you can get too old to have children, but you’re never too old to get married.

However, taking a stab at the rest of them:

b) If there’s no good prospect on the horizon or if you have a good prospect and he or she is not interested, I would call that a “vocation to singleness” at least for the time being, but not necessarily a permanent one. (Similarly, a married person is called to marriage, but once their spouse dies, they might get the “vocation to singleness” again.)
c) How can you disagree with “God has said “not yet””? If there’s nobody clamoring to marry you, that sounds a lot like “not yet.”
d) I think single people genuinely don’t appreciate the perks of their state. There are genuinely advantages of being single and childless and there are many, many problems common to married people and parents. It is hard being a flawed, stupid, sinful human being and trying to live peacefully and effectively with another flawed, stupid, sinful human being.
e) It is hard work to effectively combine the points of view of two different human beings, making sure that each gets their fair say, and that each is treated fairly. That is hard. At times it will seem virtually impossible. (Think of the last time you had a roommate. Was that easy?)
f) It’s true that a lot of people find a spouse while looking, and probably just as many find one while not looking and doing other stuff.
g) An unhappy single person doesn’t magically turn into a happy married person. Similarly, an unhappy single person will be unattractive to other single people. Those are the brakes.
 
Xantippe said:
I don’t think that 4a) is something anybody ought to say–as the blogger at Seraphic Singles says, you can get too old to have children, but you’re never too old to get married.

However, taking a stab at the rest of them:

b) If there’s no good prospect on the horizon or if you have a good prospect and he or she is not interested, I would call that a “vocation to singleness” at least for the time being, but not necessarily a permanent one. (Similarly, a married person is called to marriage, but once their spouse dies, they might get the “vocation to singleness” again.)
c) How can you disagree with “God has said “not yet””? If there’s nobody clamoring to marry you, that sounds a lot like “not yet.”
d) I think single people genuinely don’t appreciate the perks of their state. There are genuinely advantages of being single and childless and there are many, many problems common to married people and parents. It is hard being a flawed, stupid, sinful human being and trying to live peacefully and effectively with another flawed, stupid, sinful human being.
e) It is hard work to effectively combine the points of view of two different human beings, making sure that each gets their fair say, and that each is treated fairly. That is hard. At times it will seem virtually impossible. (Think of the last time you had a roommate. Was that easy?)
f) It’s true that a lot of people find a spouse while looking, and probably just as many find one while not looking and doing other stuff.
g) An unhappy single person doesn’t magically turn into a happy married person. Similarly, an unhappy single person will be unattractive to other single people. Those are the brakes.
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👍

I have always loved your posts. The epitome of reason itself.

Another big red flag is desperation.

Despair isn’t attractive.

Another big turn-off is bitterness, especially towards members of the opposite sex.

Despair can sometimes give birth to bitterness.
 
Sarcelle said:
👍

I have always loved your posts. The epitome of reason itself.

Another big red flag is desperation.

Despair isn’t attractive.

Another big turn-off is bitterness, especially towards members of the opposite sex.

Despair can sometimes give birth to bitterness.
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Aww–you’re sweet!

Yes to what you said about despair and bitterness–the people who give the “unhelpful” advice may be trying to keep the single from becoming unattractively despairing and bitter.
 
I would pretty much need the woman to start talking to me first. I used to think I was shy and describe myself as shy, but I’m actually not. Shy is being afraid/nervous to engage with people, I just don’t like it. I’m in a rough spot because while I don’t like being lonely, I generally don’t like interacting with people I don’t know. I hate small talk so for me to have any kind of conversation with a person, I already need to have some kind of knowledge of the person so I know what they like to talk about. That generally leaves strangers out because you can’t have a conversation with a stranger unless you make small talk first.
 
Male, late 20’s here.

Biggest obstacle is access to single, faithful women above the age of 21…

Second biggest obstacle, personal baggage. I have a friend who I dated in high school, who went through an exceptionally difficult time after we broke up. When you’ve been involved in something real, superficial relationships lose their appeal, and in depth ones are approached with caution because the potential consequences are well understood.

Third, financial. I am 27, and in grad school, and my grad school is rapidly draining my account. Dating would be nice, but it would consist of a lot of rented movies in a dark basement, leading to number 4…

Fourth, temptation. As a single male, sexual urges are pretty strong, and single females have similarly strong urges. Dark basement, snuggling… you get the idea. We could be reciting the rosary together, and the rhythmic breathing might be suggestive. When we ask the father to lead us not into temptation, we do not do not fulfill our end of the bargain by leading ourselves there.

So the reasons boil down to several internal and external options. Further, men are really stupid, or at least good at faking stupid (I speak as one, remember). My efforts at dating consist of being a genuinely kind fellow to everyone I meet, and patiently waiting for reciprocity. The few times I was pushy to get into a relationship, it ended really badly, so I am in no rush.

I approach single women with zero expectations, keep respectful physical boundaries, and let something bloom, or pass without strong contest. Should there be reciprocation, I will pursue cautiously it if I am interested, or hold back either out of lack of interest, or sheer obliviousness. After a few dates/hang outs, we either put our cards on the table and discus what’s up, or we drift apart with few hurt feelings.

If your question refers to a particular individual, you may have never gotten to the “reveal” in the poker game that is dating. If an explicit statement of interest cannot be articulated, then interest will fade and attention will be drawn elsewhere. If the question is simply asked in general, then my advice is simply be forward and direct about intentions.
 
Bataar said:
I would pretty much need the woman to start talking to me first. I used to think I was shy and describe myself as shy, but I’m actually not. Shy is being afraid/nervous to engage with people, I just don’t like it. I’m in a rough spot because while I don’t like being lonely, I generally don’t like interacting with people I don’t know. I hate small talk so for me to have any kind of conversation with a person, I already need to have some kind of knowledge of the person so I know what they like to talk about. That generally leaves strangers out because you can’t have a conversation with a stranger unless you make small talk first.
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That sounds a lot like my husband–he also has no small talk. He’s outgoing and passionate at work when talking about work stuff (and also is capable of talking to people he knows about everyday life stuff), but has a tendency to turtle when dealing with new people where he doesn’t have an obvious common subject to reach for.

I was fortunate to meet him at an event where there was a subject close at hand that he is interested in and animated when talking about. Otherwise, we would never have gotten off the ground.

So, for that personality type, I would suggest:
  1. events that provide something to talk about with new people
  2. online dating (a good profile will have lots of jumping off points for conversation).
 
runningdude said:
Third, financial. I am 27, and in grad school, and my grad school is rapidly draining my account. Dating would be nice, but it would consist of a lot of rented movies in a dark basement, leading to number 4…
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How about college events? There are a lot of lectures, movies and so forth on college campuses.
 
Assuming that there are no “red flags” that would put a guy off, I would say that the ‘herd mentality’ described by a previous poster is the biggest male repellent. I like to call it “The Wall of Estrogen.” While most guys tend to have at least a little bit of the loner in them, most of the girls I’ve observed seem to naturally congregate into groups. Given that females are physically weaker, it makes some sense for them to travel in packs as a way to scare off the creeps. The problem I that they might be finding is that it works too well. Leaving aside the risk of looking like a fool in front of a group of attractive females, most guys do not believe they stand much of chance of catching and holding a girl’s attention when she’s surrounded by a group of other girls that she already knows and is comfortable with.

I have had experience with this in my own life. I know a girl (not very well, but by name at least) who exerts that previously mentioned “gravitational pull” on me. As far as I can tell, she is definitely courting material. However, I have not as yet been unable to get her undivided attention long enough to try and ask her out. On a more general note, it would seem that immediately after mass would be a great place to meet nice girls, right? Well here’s the problem: they will almost certainly be talking with three or four of their BFFs if they haven’t already booked. That wall is extremely difficult to effectively penetrate.
 
ZellieFan said:
You must have missed when I said “single, faithful Catholic” women. 😃 No drinking, drugs, sex, smoking, etc.
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huh? Since when are drinking and smoking sins? Smoking may not be healthy but a faithful Catholic can smoke and definitely can drink
 
ShadowBoxer said:
Assuming that there are no “red flags” that would put a guy off, I would say that the ‘herd mentality’ described by a previous poster is the biggest male repellent. I like to call it “The Wall of Estrogen.” While most guys tend to have at least a little bit of the loner in them, most of the girls I’ve observed seem to naturally congregate into groups. Given that females are physically weaker, it makes some sense for them to travel in packs as a way to scare off the creeps. The problem I that they might be finding is that it works too well. Leaving aside the risk of looking like a fool in front of a group of attractive females, most guys do not believe they stand much of chance of catching and holding a girl’s attention when she’s surrounded by a group of other girls that she already knows and is comfortable with.

I have had experience with this in my own life. I know a girl (not very well, but by name at least) who exerts that previously mentioned “gravitational pull” on me. As far as I can tell, she is definitely courting material. However, I have not as yet been unable to get her undivided attention long enough to try and ask her out. On a more general note, it would seem that immediately after mass would be a great place to meet nice girls, right? Well here’s the problem: they will almost certainly be talking with three or four of their BFFs if they haven’t already booked. That wall is extremely difficult to effectively penetrate.
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Yes, it definitely helps to give an occasionally opportunity to be “cut out from the herd.” Be a bit predictable about it. Go from one thing to another by yourself fairly often, rather than always waiting for a group. Make it easily possible to “run into you” with no witnesses to the “casual” conversation that takes place. As you point out, it is easily possible to do this at church without leaving yourself vulnerable to a literal assault.

I think my grandmother used to refer to this sort of recognition as “she let him chase her until she caught him.”
 
The main reasons I can think of are either 1. a lack of attraction or chemistry, 2. major differences in goals or values, 3. a perceived lack of interest from the other person (i.e., she just doesn’t seem that into me, I will move on).
 
Booter said:
Assuming single, Catholic, and someone I would be attracted to, the only thing I would need is a “green light.” It’s hard to describe what that is (perhaps a smile my way, laugh at one of my jokes, some expression of interest). I for one wouldn’t feel comfortable going in cold and hoping she’s into me…I need some kind of sign…guess that’s why I’m single 😛
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Booter has a point… A lot of guys like to have a clue. Don’t leave them in the dark.
 
josephback said:
I need to get through college and be able to support a family before looking for one. Nothing against a woman working, but being able to carry my own weight in a relationship is a matter of personal pride. I worry whether a woman would be willing to accept a guy in my position, as 30 years old and little to show for it materially. Finally, I just haven’t met many women that hold my sustained interest. The one exception is a woman I know who practically exerts a gravitational pull. I’m not sure she knows it, and like I said not ready to seek a wife. Five more semesters to go. Time to build the friendship.
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I have to admit, joseph has a pretty good point… I noticed that after I was out of college and had a good paying job, my confidence went up 200 percent. I figured that was just part of my personality and what makes me tick. But in my opinion a guy having a good job will find asking a girl out a lot easier than a guy who is unemployed or still in school.
 
For me (I’m married, but have babies at home so it wasn’t that long ago I dated), I’ll admit it was generally a lack of physical attraction, or a girl who seemed overly eager. I’m not saying this was wrong or wrong, but that’s just how it was. Perhaps it was a bit of shallowness on my part, perhaps not, but I had visions of finding a wife who I was enamored with spiritually and physically, and didn’t spend much time pursuing someone if either component was missing. And since it landed me a wife who I find totally beautiful physically and spiritually, it worked for me.

As a guy, I also appreciated a girl who show interest commensurate with mine, but not one who seemed too eager, because frankly, a woman who was too interested didn’t grab my attention. Again, perhaps it shouldn’t be that way, but again, it just was. I needed to pursue her, but be given some bread crumbs on the trail to follow allowing me to know she was interested, but not desparate to have me.
 
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