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RuthAnne
Guest
I don’t think that’s rude at all. I would much prefer a little stretching over being spoon fed. But that’s just me.
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I agree this is wrong. It is also extremely short sighted.
Providing a bump in wages to correspond with the success of the business insures loyalty as well as increases worker satisfaction.
But I disagree that we should be artificially forcing minimum wages.
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tafan2
Guest
If you are saying that I have supported minimum wage laws, you would be wrong. Where did you get that from? Its amazing how a person does nothing more than defend the Church’s teaching on social justice issues and people immediately assume that he supports liberal political views. I have an overriding political philosophy: subsidiarity. The political left, throughout the industrialized world, have completely abandoned subsidiarity. And it will lead to disastrous results.
That does not mean that employers do not have moral obligations towards their workers. They most certainly do.
I do not believe I attributed such a belief to you.
If so, my apologies.
I disagree with the premise in this thread concerning a minimum wage.
The employer has a moral obligation to those they employ, but they should not be forced into a specific wage for that.
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Peeps
Guest
Unemployment is caused when there are not enough people qualified (education, certification, experience, physical strength, etc.) to apply for the jobs that are open.
According to our local newspapers and television stations, there are several thousand manufacturing jobs in our metro area, but there are no where near enough local people trained and certified to do these jobs. Specifically, companies are seeking welders, pipe fitters, machinists, and mechanics (especially airplane mechanics).
The training for many of these jobs lasts from a few months to a few years and there are many trade schools and programs that provide financial aid. Some employers will provide financial aid if the student agrees to commit to a certain number of years at the company.
There are also many openings for various health care professionals, especially nurses (mainly R.N.s), Physical Therapists, Medical Imaging Technologists, Medical Technologists (lab–this is how I earn my bread and butter!), Phlebotomists, and Respiratory Technologists. Some of these professions require a 4-year college degree, some a 2-year college degree, and some a certificate earned from an accredited program (offered through a Junior College or vocational career school).
Most of the positions I listed above pay far above minimum wage (exception would be phlebotomy, but the training is only a few months).
Why don’t people select one of these trades?!! I wish I knew! Do the schools not educate young teens about these options? Are kids convinced that they will be a professional athlete, a professional musician or actor, or a politician/President?
The minority unemployment in our city is appalling. Why?? No one will stop minorities from entering the trades and professions I listed above. Money is available, and even if a teenager has to take out a loan, they are pretty much guaranteed a job that will pay enough to be able to pay the loan back in several years.
I actually work at two jobs, and so do each of my daughters and my son-in-law. My husband is the only slacker who only has one job but he works very hard at his job and there is a lot of competition in his field and a lot of pressure for old-timers to retire if they can’t keep up. He keeps up and is very intelligent, and also very personable and good with customer service.
Anyway, there are plenty of jobs, more jobs than workers. It’s not lack of jobs that causes unemployment.
According to our local newspapers and television stations, there are several thousand manufacturing jobs in our metro area, but there are no where near enough local people trained and certified to do these jobs. Specifically, companies are seeking welders, pipe fitters, machinists, and mechanics (especially airplane mechanics).
The training for many of these jobs lasts from a few months to a few years and there are many trade schools and programs that provide financial aid. Some employers will provide financial aid if the student agrees to commit to a certain number of years at the company.
There are also many openings for various health care professionals, especially nurses (mainly R.N.s), Physical Therapists, Medical Imaging Technologists, Medical Technologists (lab–this is how I earn my bread and butter!), Phlebotomists, and Respiratory Technologists. Some of these professions require a 4-year college degree, some a 2-year college degree, and some a certificate earned from an accredited program (offered through a Junior College or vocational career school).
Most of the positions I listed above pay far above minimum wage (exception would be phlebotomy, but the training is only a few months).
Why don’t people select one of these trades?!! I wish I knew! Do the schools not educate young teens about these options? Are kids convinced that they will be a professional athlete, a professional musician or actor, or a politician/President?
The minority unemployment in our city is appalling. Why?? No one will stop minorities from entering the trades and professions I listed above. Money is available, and even if a teenager has to take out a loan, they are pretty much guaranteed a job that will pay enough to be able to pay the loan back in several years.
I actually work at two jobs, and so do each of my daughters and my son-in-law. My husband is the only slacker who only has one job but he works very hard at his job and there is a lot of competition in his field and a lot of pressure for old-timers to retire if they can’t keep up. He keeps up and is very intelligent, and also very personable and good with customer service.
Anyway, there are plenty of jobs, more jobs than workers. It’s not lack of jobs that causes unemployment.
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LilyM
Guest
If a business owner cannot run their business profitably and efficiently enough to pay sufficient staff a half-decent wage, then ISTM that both the business and the jobs it provides aren’t really much truck to start with.YourNameHere:
If a business owner cannot pay for a position, there will be no position available for anyone to work in.
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tafan2
Guest
The premise if the thread is “What us a just wage”. The article linked presents the teaching of the Church over the last 130 years with regards to this premise. I disagree with none of it. No Catholic should. And we certainly need to understand this teaching better, so the thread is a good thing.
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ATraveller
Guest
Enough that I can purchase whatever books I want and have the time to read (not skim) every single one of them.
That’s the real definition of a just wage.
That’s the real definition of a just wage.
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Delphinus
Guest
I suppose that depends upon what you call a decent wage.
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ewohdrol
Guest
This is despicable. There will always be members of society without the means or abilities to better their education or skill set. Society NEEDS people to do unskilled work.
Does that mean we sentence them to a life where full time work is not a livable wage? Being christian surely requires us to give them enough for a basic lifestyle. Not to be working ridiculous hours just to survive.
Does that mean we sentence them to a life where full time work is not a livable wage? Being christian surely requires us to give them enough for a basic lifestyle. Not to be working ridiculous hours just to survive.
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Peeps
Guest
Usually in the U.S., people like this, who lack the means or abilities to better their education or skill set, are eligible for disability payments, as well as subsidized housing, free health care, etc.
I’m thinking of people like one of my best friends, who has suffered from mental illness (schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, hallucinations, impulse-control, addiction, etc.) since she was in college. When we were young (out of college), she tried working at many different jobs (40 in all), but was let go by every employer because of her bizarre behavior (due to her mental illness). She also couldn’t do the work because she had to step out every 15 minutes for a smoke.
She is a highly-intelligent person, but her illness makes it impossible for her to hold down any job, even a low-paying job like maid work.
Thankfully, she qualified for a program that we have in our city that provides assistance to people diagnosed with mental illness. She receives free housing with a supervisor on duty 24/7, a link card (for groceries other than paper goods), Medicaid when she was young and Medicare now that she is over 62, transportation (a free bus ticket), and a whole series of classes and activities. There are lots of other clients in this program, so she also has friends and a social life with these friends. (And I see her once a week and take her out for dinner, shopping, a walk, etc., and I get as much out of being her friend as she gets–she is a caring, sympathetic person who truly gives back and makes my life better!)
Her dear parents (R.I.P.) provided her with a trust fund after they died, and she is required to use this trust fund to help pay for her expenses and activities, but the organization oversees the fund and gives her an allowance that should make the fund last until her death.
My friend is not just a lucky exception. In the U.S., we generally take care of our people who truly can’t work.
The problem is–there are people in the U.S. who have “disabilities” that are used as an excuse not to work. E.g., we have a supervisor who has suffered from congestive heart failure for the last 15 years, and has had two open heart surgeries. She often experiences nose bleeds at work because of her medications. Yet, she works, full time, in a job that requires a degree and a set of skills and a lot of getting up and down and moving around.
There are people who, in her situation, would claim that they are unable to work, and if a doctor will certify their claim, they get all the benefits that I described above for my mentally-ill friend!
There are people who have the same osteoarthritis that I have, or diabetes, or depression that is kept under control with a med (like my husband), or high blood pressure that is controllable with meds, or obesity (like me!) or “anxiety” that can be controlled with meds and therapy–the list goes on, and these people will claim that they are “disabled” and unable to work, and collect free housing, medical care, food, etc.
THIS IS NOT JUST! It’s sloth and selfishness! .
But please realize that someone who is truly unable to work is taken care of.
I’m thinking of people like one of my best friends, who has suffered from mental illness (schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, hallucinations, impulse-control, addiction, etc.) since she was in college. When we were young (out of college), she tried working at many different jobs (40 in all), but was let go by every employer because of her bizarre behavior (due to her mental illness). She also couldn’t do the work because she had to step out every 15 minutes for a smoke.
She is a highly-intelligent person, but her illness makes it impossible for her to hold down any job, even a low-paying job like maid work.
Thankfully, she qualified for a program that we have in our city that provides assistance to people diagnosed with mental illness. She receives free housing with a supervisor on duty 24/7, a link card (for groceries other than paper goods), Medicaid when she was young and Medicare now that she is over 62, transportation (a free bus ticket), and a whole series of classes and activities. There are lots of other clients in this program, so she also has friends and a social life with these friends. (And I see her once a week and take her out for dinner, shopping, a walk, etc., and I get as much out of being her friend as she gets–she is a caring, sympathetic person who truly gives back and makes my life better!)
Her dear parents (R.I.P.) provided her with a trust fund after they died, and she is required to use this trust fund to help pay for her expenses and activities, but the organization oversees the fund and gives her an allowance that should make the fund last until her death.
My friend is not just a lucky exception. In the U.S., we generally take care of our people who truly can’t work.
The problem is–there are people in the U.S. who have “disabilities” that are used as an excuse not to work. E.g., we have a supervisor who has suffered from congestive heart failure for the last 15 years, and has had two open heart surgeries. She often experiences nose bleeds at work because of her medications. Yet, she works, full time, in a job that requires a degree and a set of skills and a lot of getting up and down and moving around.
There are people who, in her situation, would claim that they are unable to work, and if a doctor will certify their claim, they get all the benefits that I described above for my mentally-ill friend!
There are people who have the same osteoarthritis that I have, or diabetes, or depression that is kept under control with a med (like my husband), or high blood pressure that is controllable with meds, or obesity (like me!) or “anxiety” that can be controlled with meds and therapy–the list goes on, and these people will claim that they are “disabled” and unable to work, and collect free housing, medical care, food, etc.
THIS IS NOT JUST! It’s sloth and selfishness! .
But please realize that someone who is truly unable to work is taken care of.
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ewohdrol
Guest
I’m not sure I follow? So because there are individuals who are lazy and entitled (and they are found everywhere in the world) employers shouldn’t have to pay a minimum wage?
So what of the majority of workers that do work hard? Do they have to work two jobs full time to survive?
I’m not discussing individuals who collect a disability pension. I am discussing a worker paid a wage that will not keep them above the poverty line. I am discussing hard workers in unskilled positions who cannot provide for their families due to the low wages they receive. We should ail to live in a world where low income workers can both work and survive. Not have to rely on charity because their 40+ hours a week still won’t cover rent.
So what of the majority of workers that do work hard? Do they have to work two jobs full time to survive?
I’m not discussing individuals who collect a disability pension. I am discussing a worker paid a wage that will not keep them above the poverty line. I am discussing hard workers in unskilled positions who cannot provide for their families due to the low wages they receive. We should ail to live in a world where low income workers can both work and survive. Not have to rely on charity because their 40+ hours a week still won’t cover rent.
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YourNameHere
Guest
Increasing minimum wage does NOT put small businesses out of business. This is a myth that has been used forever for sticking it to the working class. Paying workers a decent wage increases productivity and it is the morally correct thing to do.
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YourNameHere
Guest
If small business owners must stick it to workers through low wages, then perhaps they need to go out of business.
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Bushum
Guest
If the labor one contributes is to toward a job that makes a widget that is worth $5 on the open market and it takes an hour to make that widget why and how could the owner pay them $15 per hour? Is it the owner’s responsibility to go out of business in order to pay an arbitrary fair wage? When the owner does go out of business then the worker loses their job and is now paid zero. I’m sorry you don’t understand how the economy works but we can’t live in a fantasy land because it makes us feel good.
Even Jesus, the omniscient creator of the world, said there will always be poor among us. It’s a sad reality but reality none the less.
Even Jesus, the omniscient creator of the world, said there will always be poor among us. It’s a sad reality but reality none the less.
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YourNameHere
Guest
Simple business 101. Pass on your increased expenses on to the consumer buying your project.
Those who want slave labor should maybe move their business to China. The communists are good at sticking it to the working poor over there.
Those who want slave labor should maybe move their business to China. The communists are good at sticking it to the working poor over there.
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Bushum
Guest
You’re right comrade. They should all go out of business and then the government can take them all over and run them the right way.
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YourNameHere
Guest
Hypotheticals always sound great. The real world, not so much. Take your widget factory to China or some other communist country where they have many slave laborers.
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