What Was Wrong With The Jews?

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Reuben_J

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Despite being God’s chosen people they suffered untold proportion of destruction as a nation in their History. The flood during Noah’s time, the destruction of the temple resulting in slavery in Babylon and the second destruction of the temple by the Romans. Each somehow was preceded by warnings and prophecies; and the exhortation for them to turn back to God.

Are not we all having the Jews in our hearts and that disobedience and disbelief could lead to our own destruction. I am exploring the idea that this is God’s own message that even as Christians it would not guarantee our salvation if we sin.
 
Reuben_J said:
Despite being God’s chosen people they suffered untold proportion of destruction as a nation in their History. The flood during Noah’s time, the destruction of the temple resulting in slavery in Babylon and the second destruction of the temple by the Romans. Each somehow was preceded by warnings and prophecies; and the exhortation for them to turn back to God.

Are not we all having the Jews in our hearts and that disobedience and disbelief could lead to our own destruction. I am exploring the idea that this is God’s own message that even as Christians it would not guarantee our salvation if we sin.
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Really, why do you start posts like these? Why not focus on the Jews who are in the church right now and work from there. You will find that most Jews that accept Jesus as the Messiah actually went back and read the scriptures for themselves to see what the God foretold through the prophets.

If you are gonna ask “what is wrong with the Jews”, then you gotta ask equally, “what is wrong with the gentiles”.

Read Romans 11:30-32 again.

BTW, there were no Jews at the time of Noah.
 
I think that there is an important message in the trials and tribulations of the Children of Isreal. God wants a relationship with us. He wants us to love him and worship him and him alone. He will be there for us and care for us. He will not always do it in the mannor that we want. All of us can be a stiff necked people. We should see that God’s ways are not our ways. It is hard to do. Everytime they fell, God provided a way back. He never abandoned them, even when they turned their backs on him.

We all are like them. We all want it our way at times. We look to God in times of trouble and ignore him in the good times.

I always loved the line in Fiddler on the roof when he says that he wished someone else would be Chosen for a change. Being the CHosen People did not make the road easy, but it made the trip worth it.
 
Reuben_J said:
Exactly, our individual salvation is not guaranteed if we sin and do not repent.

In respect to God’s dealings with the Jews and with the Church, these are covenants. And God is always faithful to His covenants. God promised Abraham that his descendants would be like the stars in number. This was borne out in the old and new testaments. He promised to be their God. He promised a messiah from the line of David. He did chastise them, but only to bring them back to Himself. Even today, the Jews are in a special relationship with God. Jews who have accepted Christ call themselves completed Jews.

We live under the new covenant. Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the church and that He would be with it until the end of the world. So we have His promise that the church will endure.

Individually, we know that if we are baptized and continue to follow Him we have eternal life. If we remain in Him (I am the vine, you are the branches) we have life. If we don’t remain in Him and bear fruit, we are good for nothing except to be cut
down and put in the fire. These are images Jesus used.
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I think there ought to be some kind of mutually agreed limit to the number of “naughty, naughty Jews threads” per week.
 
Kaninchen said:
I think there ought to be some kind of mutually agreed limit to the number of “naughty, naughty Jews threads” per week.
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If you read the original post, the OP was talking about how God dealt with his chosen people and applying it to how he deals with us. This was not Jew bashing. The Jewish scriptures document God always being faithful to his covenant with the Jews although sometimes he allowed them to be brought low.
 
Kaninchen said:
I think there ought to be some kind of mutually agreed limit to the number of “naughty, naughty Jews threads” per week.
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My biggest problem with Jews is not rejecting Jesus, but that they say atheists can validly be Jews.

So in theory one day every single Jew on the planet could be atheist while still parading around under the banner of God’s Chosen People. :harp:

That’s seriously messed up, and something only Jews can fix themselves. Otherwise, naughty naughty, shame, shame, all that.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
My biggest problem with Jews is not rejecting Jesus, but that they say atheists can validly be Jews.

So in theory one day every single Jew on the planet could be atheist while still parading around under the banner of God’s Chosen People. :harp:

That’s seriously messed up, and something only Jews can fix themselves. Otherwise, naughty naughty, shame, shame, all that.
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A Jew follows the teaching of Hebrew and much of the Old Testament

What people get wrapped up in is that if one is a citizen of Israel they are a Jew. not true.

Now there are people who call themselves Christians but get divorced for rediculous reasons such as we fell out of love breaking a convenant they made before God.

Catholics that practice birth control, do not go to Sunday Mass, or confession.

People call themselves Christians and get abortions for convience.

I think the word you left out was practicing. for if you do not practice your faith than you have none.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
My biggest problem with Jews is not rejecting Jesus, but that they say atheists can validly be Jews.

So in theory one day every single Jew on the planet could be atheist while still parading around under the banner of God’s Chosen People. :harp:

That’s seriously messed up, and something only Jews can fix themselves. Otherwise, naughty naughty, shame, shame, all that.
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Do you have proof of that? Maybe they could be citizens of the state of Israel, or ethnic Jews. But I’m pretty sure they can’t be members of the Jewish faith and not believe in God. The commandments are in the Torah and the first commandment is a biggie.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
Do you have proof of that? Maybe they could be citizens of the state of Israel, or ethnic Jews. But I’m pretty sure they can’t be members of the Jewish faith and not believe in God. The commandments are in the Torah and the first commandment is a biggie.
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What is the Jewish faith? If you are born to a mother who converted to Judaism you can be atheist, Hindu, anything you want, but you are still a Jew because of your mother who converted.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
That was interesting. Obviously, there are some disagreements in Judaism about who is or isn’t a Jew.
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A lot of people still assume that all Jews believe in God and are just like Christians only they have a little trouble with Jesus. Some of the toughest atheists I know are Jews. Many Jews in Israel and in Israeli government came from the Soviet Union and are atheists.

So being Jewish doesn’t always mean Judaism and believing in God, that’s my big problem with Jews, like I said far more than the Jesus issue. To let Christians and others think for so long you are a people who insist on belief in God as God’s Chosen People when you really don’t isn’t very honest.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
A lot of people still assume that all Jews believe in God and are just like Christians only they have a little trouble with Jesus. Some of the toughest atheists I know are Jews. Many Jews in Israel and in Israeli government came from the Soviet Union and are atheists.

So being Jewish doesn’t always mean Judaism and believing in God, that’s my big problem with Jews, like I said far more than the Jesus issue. To let Christians and others think for so long you are a people who insist on belief in God as God’s Chosen People when you really don’t isn’t very honest.
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I have several friends who are Humanistic Jews. Most are at least as good people in society as any Christian I have known. And Israel is a secular nation, not a Judaic nation.
 
What’s wrong? Well they leave something out of everything.

Have you ever had the kosher wine it is missing something.

The pickles? Missing garlic etc.

They don’t like pork and that is good as pork, swine is not good for the body, eat turkey ham.
 
dessert said:
They don’t like pork and that is good as pork, swine is not good for the body, eat turkey ham.
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Why do you say pork isn’t good for the body? Or perhaps more accurately, why do you believe pork isn’t good for the body? Just asking.
 
Reuben_J said:
Despite being God’s chosen people they ( the Jews) suffered untold proportion of destruction as a nation in their History.
…
as Christians it would not guarantee our salvation if we sin.
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Hi

The Chosen People they were if they obeyed GodAllahYHWH, if they disobey Him then they became unchosen themselves and entitled for the wrath of GodAllahYHWH. The Quran clarifies this point:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma’idah
[5:13] And indeed Allah did take a covenant from the Children of Israel; and We raised among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, ‘Surely, I am with you, if you observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, and believe in My Messengers and support them, and lend to Allah a goodly loan, I will remove your evils from you and admit you into Gardens beneath which streams flow. But whoso from among you disbelieves thereafter does indeed stray away from the right path.’
[5:14] So, because of their breaking of the covenant, We have cursed them and have hardened their hearts. They pervert the words from their proper places and have forgotten a good part of that with which they were exhorted. And thou wilt not cease to discover treachery on their part, except a few of them. So pardon them and show forbearance. Surely Allah loves those who do good to others.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=5&verse=10

Thanks
 
Namesake said:
I have several friends who are Humanistic Jews. Most are at least as good people in society as any Christian I have known. And Israel is a secular nation, not a Judaic nation.
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It doesn’t matter that they are good people, the word JEW implies GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE to many people on earth so it is hypocritical keep using it if you don’t believe in God.

Or else people with God-given minds to think with will start redefining who God’s Chosen People really are. So the ball is in their court as to whether or not that title is worth keeping, or if it is better to sacrifice it in tolerance of atheism among their ranks.

The State of Israel has defined Jewishness as not believing in Jesus in Right of Return and denied it to Messianic Jews, so it is officially against belief in Jesus for Jews.
 
I must have misunderstood. I took the origional post to begin a conversatioin about how we are all represented in the trials and tribulation of the early Jewish people. How we should be able to see ourselves in these stories and learn from them. I guess that I missed where it said that we were talking bad about the people, not learning from them.
 
ralphinal said:
I must have misunderstood. I took the origional post to begin a conversatioin about how we are all represented in the trials and tribulation of the early Jewish people. How we should be able to see ourselves in these stories and learn from them. I guess that I missed where it said that we were talking bad about the people, not learning from them.
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No, you have not. 🙂

I can understand that this conversation can degenerate into something else perhaps because the topic is rather wide. So I can understand why it takes its own direction.

I am more interested though in what both you and and Claire have said. I thought Jesus had given us the grace to be saved but it does not prevent us sinning if we choose to. And sin would lead to our own destrcution.

What worry me though we can be complacent, and eventually succumbed to our individual weaknesses and enter into sins and become unsaved. The Jewish tragedies are good examples in the scripture. When they sinned (broke the covenant) they suffered the wrath of God and the consequence were unimaginable. The whole nation wiped out and the remnants were subjected to slavery. The Psalm about the Hebrews singing their Yahweh’s song to the Babylonians by the river of the Babylon always prick my heart.

I am wondering today whether what I am saying here have anything to do with the belief that once saved we are always saved. The ancients people of God did not but would it be any different to us Christians?

Another thing, why is that we have this tendency to sin (disobedient to God’s commandments) despite knowing that sins do not bring anything good at all?

Thanks. God bless.
 
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