What We Have Lost & the Road to Restoration

  • Thread starter Thread starter paramedicgirl
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Karin said:
If you will note…I did not assume…I asked a question of the poster… guess you are ok with ALL that occurs and has occured in our Church*?*!
so lets not assume anything🙂
Click to expand...
Okay, so you WEREN’T, at the least, being flippant toward an obedient daughter of the Church?
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Okay, so you WEREN’T, at the least, being flippant toward an obedient daughter of the Church?
Click to expand...
Flippant: showing inappropriate levity
Levity: feeling an inappropriate lack of seriousness

Nope I dont think so…I see many things that occur during Mass as abuses…
Would you of prefered if I asked the question this way…
Do you have concern with the abuses that are going on in the CHurch currently and in the past?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator),

Hold steady. I didn’t say that this was gossip. I assumed that someone might actually feel strongly enough about this issue in their own Church to discuss it with their pastor. So, I pointed out the ways that should be done. Here, the best we can do is discuss things in general. If someone were to say,this priest or that priest is an evil person because he does this or that, I’d say, “repent of your gossip and go talk to the offending person after you’ve prayed about it.”

Discuss away. Don’t be defensive.

CDL
 
Karin said:
I guess some folks cant get past this part…video made by a group not in communion with Rome, so the whole video is garbage or full of lies…really a shame, as even though it was made by this type of group it does raise many valid concerns and problems that we currently face in our Church…I guess for some ignorance is bliss:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
:amen:For many, ignorance is bliss…that is so true. Sad, but true.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
The film IS wrong. The Sacraments do what the Church intends for them to DO. The Church cannot fail in that regard at all. Our Mass is validly (AND licitly confected, something they cannot claim) and all the other sacraments are constitutionally adequate for the purpose they are intended.
Click to expand...
This is an important point. The sacraments are not magic spells that depend on every word being correctly said.

When I was Confirmed, the priest did not say the words correctly, but I still felt the grace of the Holy Spirit, and my life hasn’t been the same since. Humans err, God uses them as instruments, but doesn’t require impeccability. It would have been ridiculous for me to have gone back and ask him to perform my Confirmation again!

I don’t understand the logic in dropping the exorcism prayers form Baptism and Holy Orders, but I don’t think God’s grace that is given is bound by the words used. He’s not a genie.

Many of the charges in this video are true, but to say the Catholic Church is now invalid is crazy. God would not leave us to have to discern for ourselves where His true Church is. It’s where it always has been. The Magesterium is not newly located in California. This seems like the devil stirring up division by focusing us on the externals of our faith like the Pharisees did. We need to work for and pray for restoration of tradition, but not at the expense of schism.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe the externals of our Faith are seriously important, and I hope they are restored soon. I also hope the that some teachings will be more concretely stated by the Vatican to firmly establish the Church’s unchanging dogmas. Maybe there will have to be another Council to correct all the progressive clergy.
 
Desert Brother:
I don’t understand the logic in dropping the exorcism prayers form Baptism and Holy Orders, but I don’t think God’s grace that is given is bound by the words used. He’s not a genie.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not — that the prayers were of exorcism were dropped from baptism. Quoting Father Amorth as “the” authority, lends some suspicion as to the real truth. Read CAF Apologist Jimmy Akin’s sumnation of him:
The fact is that Fr. Amorth is an individual given to making sweeping statements that are not firmly grounded and that are subject to a credulous mindset that is too ready to see possession (full-blown or not). [Etc.]
Click to expand...
Oh, and I should mention something else about Fr. Amorth. He is often credited–as he is in the article–as “the Vatican’s chief exorcist” and (somewhat more colorfully) as “Benedict XVI’s ‘caster out of demons.’” This is not true.
Click to expand...
Also referenced in Mr. Akin’s article is this link:
I begin by noting that Fr. Benedict Groeschel wrote one of the most tepid forewords to a book I have ever seen. “At first I declined,” he noted, and then he continued, “…I have difficulties with Fr. Amorth’s approach.
Click to expand...
Amorth’s book will not fare well under scholarly, or even under commonly thoughtful, analysis. There are, for starters, no footnotes, no bibliography, and no index. Save, then, for a small number of in-text references, there is no way to check most of Amorth’s multitudinous assertions, even many that he claims are well-documented.
Click to expand...
These are also my concerns with the video: no source, no footnotes, no bibliography, and no index.
 
The dropping of the minor exorcism from the Rite of Baptism was a disaster. There was no just reason for doing it (certainly none was offered), and it represented a change from the practice of centuries and centuries.

Curiously, the new Rite of Exorcism has also proven problematic. It has some unintentionally hilarious portions where the exorcist gets to tell the demon what he is in that lovely didactic manner the new liturgical books are so fond of…there was a move to insert a rubric that one could freely use the older Rite; the compromise was a priest can petition the CDW to use the older Rite of Exorcism, which, the CDW has said, “will be freely given.”
 
Karin said:
I guess some folks cant get past this part…video made by a group not in communion with Rome, so the whole video is garbage or full of lies…really a shame, as even though it was made by this type of group it does raise many valid concerns and problems that we currently face in our Church…I guess for some ignorance is bliss:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
What you said is so true.
 
i watched this video and i have mixed feelings.

Tho i feel that the older traditions are much more tasteful and reverent I feel that it is just traditions. human tradition. I believe that our focus for standing out as the true church and light and salt of the earth should lay in how we conduct ourselves outside of the mass. The focus of the church should be going back to what christ wanted for us. Unadulterated love, endless compassion and uncommon charity.

That is what makes the church the true church. Not our traditions and tastes.

as an aside…why does anyone want to go to a latiin mass? I don’t understand Latin and i feel that if the congregation doesn’t speak the language used, those words don’t edify the church. this was forbidden by paul the apostle.
 
Well, your view on the use of Latin is un-Catholic and at variance with Vatican II, of all things.

Catholicism rests on Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition. Remember that.
 
Joysong said:
Are you stating that you have personally read these books and seen this as Father’s actual words? Or was it alleged to have been stated by him in someone’s blog? I saw in this article that he did not downplay the exorcism in baptism:

The video is full of edited clips that are not verified with an authentic source and are often promoted by websites that unfortunately will stoop to falsehood and taking things deliberately out of context in order to obtain their objectives of slandering the Church. It was pretty apparent in a recent thread where the poster pulled quotes from one of these websites and did not check it out. When the actual text was found in reliable sources, it was quickly observed that the website had deliberately altered it for the sole purpose of deception.

There is no date showing when the supposed actions took place, nor a source to determine the veracity of them. I have personally seen some of these on the websites I mentioned.

It is sad that one needs to promote their agenda of demeaning the Church’s liturgy by using the most scandalous and ISOLATED actions as though they were the norm of the universal Church. Can’t the traditionists do better than this? Do they really believe this is pleasing to God?

In addition, this seems to be in violation of a number of forum rules.
  1. Mandatory threads on news reports of current events as well as the quoted works of others MUST be linked to a publicly available article/reference on the web.
Quotes from books must include standard reference information, including title, author,(and page number if possible). (Publisher, date, and preferably ISBN are helpful).
  1. Posting material or linking to a site that promotes bigotry, prejudice, or hatred toward those of any race, religion, ethnicity, culture, or national origin
  2. Posting material that can reasonably be construed as intended to proselytize Catholics
    [advocating TLM as opposed to N.O.]
  3. Identifying individual parishes or clergy (including hierarchy) as “unfaithful to the Magisterium”, guilty of “liturgical abuse”, or otherwise engaged in unacceptable or unpopular practices, based on personal “knowledge” or opinion without publicly available documentation that such has been alleged
Two cents.
Click to expand...
I said I read the books, so yes, that means I actually read them. :confused:

And yes, Father Amorth does say in each of his two books, that the prayers for both exorcism and baptism have had key elelments removed from them which weakens them. If you don’t believe me, buy the books and read them. I don’t have time to go through them to locate and print the exact text.
 
Karin said:
…I guess for some ignorance is bliss
Click to expand...
Anima_Christi said:
For many, ignorance is bliss…that is so true. Sad, but true.
Click to expand...
Some might argue, to borrow even more from English poet Thomas Gray, that ignorance of some matters is indeed bliss, where “'Tis folly to be wise.” (remainder of quote taken from Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College).

And I think it is folly to place oneself in league with those attacking any Roman Catholic Mass.

Some of us are simply more circumspect as Catholics on where we allow ourselves to search for “truth”.

The OP’s blog linking to the video states that the video “asks” the following four questions:Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith? Does the clergy still truly “believe?” Can we count on today’s Church to lead us to salvation?
Let me guess - the video also “answers” those four questions for us, doesn’t it? All in the negative?

Please let me know if I am wrong, and I may consider watching it.

Peace all.
 
:tiphat:
40.png
Tassitus:
The OP’s blog linking to the video states that the video “asks” the following four questions:

Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith? Does the clergy still truly “believe?” Can we count on today’s Church to lead us to salvation?

Let me guess - the video also “answers” those four questions for us, doesn’t it? All in the negative?
Click to expand...
 
tassitus said:
And I think it is folly to place oneself in league with those attacking any Roman Catholic Mass.
Click to expand...
If people dont want others to attack any Catholic Mass than may I suggest that Bishops, Priests, and us the common man stop the abuses of the Mass that seem to be going on very frequently in many Parishes!
 
Joysong said:
:tiphat:

The OP admits in her blog that she is SSPX. Enough said?
Click to expand...
Joysong, you stand corrected. I am the OP of this thread, and I am not SSPX. I attend the Novus Ordo Mass, but wish I could attend an indult TLM. So, just what are you talking about? :confused:
 
I removed it, for I realized the person who told me this may have been mistaken.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top