What We Have Lost & the Road to Restoration

[lak611]

I noticed errors in the video. The whole bit about Cardinal Bugnini being a freemason was brought up again, even though that rumour has long been disproved. Makes me wonder if the group that made the video are SSPX.

Since I see the ban has been lifted, now I’ll ask a question about that video. Was it produced by a sedecavantist group?

 

[steve_green_2]

It begins and ends with our public worship, the mass.

Is the new mass better ? Has it produced more fruit ?

Why does it always need to be changed or reformed ?

Golly, want reverance and beauty in a vernacular mass, just go to an Eastern Catholic Church. They had it going on a long time before 1969 !!!

Glad this chaw chewing Kansan found it in dem har sticks here by geepers !!!

 

[Unfinished]

Since I see the ban has been lifted, now I’ll ask a question about that video. Was it produced by a sedecavantist group?

Unsure. They sure fringed on the edge if they were not.

I was just over on the traditional forum and I watched the video for the Sarum Rite and the Ambrosian rite. The music on the Sarum rite video blew me away.

And of course I attend the Tridentine Mass weekly.

I truely felt a huge sense of loss. As if someone I knew had died. Much of our Catholic identity has been stripped away. Perhaps it is just the sacred polyphony echoing through my ears and knowing that if I decide to get up for Mass in the morning… I will leave sad. At least I still have the Eucharist.

 

[tassitus]

Sorry, I was going to give the video a look-see, but could not make it past:

This video asks the hard questions: Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith?

I want nothing to do with anything that goes for that effect…

Peace all.

 

[Walking_Home]

After viewing this video–the word that comes to mind is–rape.

 

[lak611]

Sorry, I was going to give the video a look-see, but could not make it past:

This video asks the hard questions: Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith?

I want nothing to do with anything that goes for that effect…

Peace all.

I did watch the entire video, and I am wondering about the person/persons who produced it. Are they faithful to the Magisterium, or are they a sedecavantist group? They brought up a lot of things about the Sacraments that I have a problem with. They disparage the revisions to how the Sacraments are given (much comparison with the wording in how the Sacraments are administered). I looked in my Catechism, and I don’t see anything wrong with our Sacraments. For instance, in the video they claim that babies aren’t anointed with Chrism during Baptism, which they still are. They had a problem with a Deacon baptising. They seemed to think Anointing of the Sick was more about physical healing, but from reading the words used in the Anointing in my Catechism, I don’t see any emphasis on physical healing but rather on healing of the soul through forgiveness of sin.

To the OP, do you have any information on the person or persons who produced this video? I question their faithfulness to the Magisterium of the Church.

 

[lak611]

Since I see the ban has been lifted, now I’ll ask a question about that video. Was it produced by a sedecavantist group?

I checked out the Ave Maria site, and it IS SSPX, so it CANNOT be trusted as it is not faithful to the Magisterium of the Church.

 

[santaro75]

the priest in that video that is dancing and throwing the ball and later saying that everyone is a eucharistic minister … i have been to a few of his masses. he seemed very cocky, obviously homosexual and oddly creepy. later i found him being indicted on numerous charges of sexual misconduct with minors.

read this

phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2005-02-24/news/feature_3.html

interesting what they said about the priest population in that city because i made the observation while i was there that there were so many obviously gay priests there. i don’t understand why people get offended by that observation when it is so obviously true.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Paramedicgirl:

Why would you sposor and propagate on your blog a video that commits (at the very least) the error of calling Blessed John XXIII a modernist? Modernism is a heresy, as opposed to simply “modern” or “contemporary.” You’re prepared to assist in the spreading of the idea that a beatii was a heretic?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I’ve only seen 1/2 of the video but I will say this. If the Roman Rite had retained what it had I would probably be Roman Rite today. Not that I regret becoming Eastern Catholic. On the contrary, I love the Divine Liturgy and rejoice that we are in communion with Rome. It’s simply that much in the new Church offered little other than what I already knew in Protestantism. Why would a person convert to Catholicism if it offered nothing that one didn’t already have?

CDL

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I do have to concede that where they are right, they are right. The Church has indeed passed through a silly season. That still doesn’t make producers of this video faithful sons and daughters of the Church.

 

[Anima_Christi]

I do have to concede that where they are right, they are right. The Church has indeed passed through a silly season. That still doesn’t make producers of this video faithful sons and daughters of the Church.

Not opposing error is to approve it…and those who approve the postconciliar errors are anything but faithful sons and daughters.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I don’t see anything wrong with the Sacraments. The quotes I have included below are from the Catechism.

What is wrong with “Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit”? I don’t see where Confirmation is any less valid.

What is wrong with anointing a baby or child/adult (if they are a convert) with chrism after the pouring of water and trinitarian formula? Is Baptism less of a Sacrament because a Deacon may perform it, not just a Priest?

I like face-to-face Confession. It is an option, not a requirement. I could still confess behind a screen if I want to. I don’t think rooms instead of confessionals make the Sacrament of Penance less valid. A more personal contact with the Priest to me is good, because if he knows you, he can give advice on how to avoid falling back into sin. Before there was face-to-face Confession, the priest usually just gave a Penance and then Absolution. I like being able to talk to my Priest about sins that trouble me and get his advice. I don’t think that’s a Protestant thing. Protestants don’t even have Confession to a minister. Jesus gave advice to people when He forgave their sins, and the Priest is acting as Jesus did. Jesus always saw people face-to-face when He forgave them their sins, so I think it is good for the Priest to see me face-to-face when he is acting “in persona Christi”.

What is wrong with the Anointing of the Sick? The priest says, “May the Lord who frees you from sin save you and raise you up”. That sounds to me like it is addressing sickness of the soul (sin), not just healing of physical illness.

Holy Orders is still the same Sacrament. The prayer that the Bishop says when laying on his hands mentions “stand without reproach before your altar, to proclaim the Gospel. . . to offer you spiritual gifts and sacrifices, to renew your people by the bath of rebirth. . .” That still definitely means the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Father Amorth, the head exorcist for Rome, says in his two books, that the baptismal prayers have been watered down to remove the prayers of exorcism. He says that he feels it was a mistake, because now the prayers are weakened. If you read these books, you will find out much more that has been weakened by the changes in the Church.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Paramedicgirl:

Why would you sposor and propagate on your blog a video that commits (at the very least) the error of calling Blessed John XXIII a modernist? Modernism is a heresy, as opposed to simply “modern” or “contemporary.” You’re prepared to assist in the spreading of the idea that a beatii was a heretic?

For your discernment, John. Just like everybody elses. There are some things I don’t like about the video, as well. But there are some good points too. It’s up to each of us to discover what they are.

 

[palmas85]

I do have to concede that where they are right, they are right. The Church has indeed passed through a silly season. That still doesn’t make producers of this video faithful sons and daughters of the Church.

So what? They presented an admittedly biased film that accurately portrayed the state of a large segment of the Church today and gave their views as to why it happened. There were also some exagerations in the film as well as some errors. Do you advocate ignoring the truth that was there because the group that produced it was the SSPX or some other group and slanted the video their way? A lot of what they had in there was true Kirk and you know it. I don’t believe that one has to be a loyal son or daughter of the Church to make a statement about the condition of the Church and to point out the problems that it has, In fact someone who is totally and completely loyal, might be hesitant to point things out, even if they knew them to be wrong, wouldn’t you agree Kirk?

 

[netmilsmom]

Pitifully, this has been moved to the TC forum and now will not be discussed with the people who need to. A big, yup that’s right from all of us, is not a discussion.

I agree that this is made by a group not in union with Rome but the problem is that no one discussed or disputed the facts of the Sacraments in this.

I wish someone could have told me that the film was wrong about them instead of just dismissing it because of who made it.

 

[Karin]

Pitifully, this has been moved to the TC forum and now will not be discussed with the people who need to. A big, yup that’s right from all of us, is not a discussion.

I agree that this is made by a group not in union with Rome but the problem is that no one discussed or disputed the facts of the Sacraments in this.

I wish someone could have told me that the film was wrong about them instead of just dismissing it because of who made it.

I guess some folks cant get past this part…video made by a group not in communion with Rome, so the whole video is garbage or full of lies…really a shame, as even though it was made by this type of group it does raise many valid concerns and problems that we currently face in our Church…I guess for some ignorance is bliss

 

[puzzleannie]

watching this video is a complete and utter waste of time. just read the tone of the responses on this thread. it sows a spirit of depression and discord so cannot be of the Holy Spirit.

better tactic: assist at Mass every Sunday and Holy Day at your own parish or the one that feeds you best, daily Mass when possible, with a spirit of unity with Christ and the whole Church, with a spirit of obedience to our Pope and Bishops who have given us the Order of the Mass, the rubrics, the lectionary and who have been charged by Christ with that responsibility, and who are our divinely ordained shepherds. Spend the effort formerly wasted on websites and books of disobedient, schismatic, bitter, ex-Catholics on developing the virtues, beginning with humility and obedience.

 

[Karin]

watching this video is a complete and utter waste of time. just read the tone of the responses on this thread. it sows a spirit of depression and discord so cannot be of the Holy Spirit.

better tactic: assist at Mass every Sunday and Holy Day at your own parish or the one that feeds you best, daily Mass when possible, with a spirit of unity with Christ and the whole Church, with a spirit of obedience to our Pope and Bishops who have given us the Order of the Mass, the rubrics, the lectionary and who have been charged by Christ with that responsibility, and who are our divinely ordained shepherds. Spend the effort formerly wasted on websites and books of disobedient, schismatic, bitter, ex-Catholics on developing the virtues, beginning with humility and obedience.

gather you have not watched it…sad…I guess you are ok with ALL that occurs and has occured in our Church?!

 

[GregoryPalamas]

watching this video is a complete and utter waste of time. just read the tone of the responses on this thread. it sows a spirit of depression and discord so cannot be of the Holy Spirit.

better tactic: assist at Mass every Sunday and Holy Day at your own parish or the one that feeds you best, daily Mass when possible, with a spirit of unity with Christ and the whole Church, with a spirit of obedience to our Pope and Bishops who have given us the Order of the Mass, the rubrics, the lectionary and who have been charged by Christ with that responsibility, and who are our divinely ordained shepherds. Spend the effort formerly wasted on websites and books of disobedient, schismatic, bitter, ex-Catholics on developing the virtues, beginning with humility and obedience.

The positive approach is always best. Yet, how does a generation know what it has lost and what it might regain unless it becomes aware of what is possible? How does one learn what one has lost unless one knows why the patrimony is there in the first place? Since I’m not Roman there are many things I do not know.

1. But it is easy to see that the priest facing East with the people is a holy act of worship. Facing West offers a different message.
2. Having architecture that and music and chant that lifts the heart toward God or presents God in our midst is far superior to silly slap happy secular music which carries us no where and does at times carry us downward. The Gregorian chant is by VCII records still the standard for RC Churches. Where is it.
3. By following the patterns of worship established by St. John’s Revelation and continual Church tradition one is transported to communion with the saints and much of what is done today does not.
4. The altar of sacrifice offers a much different message than the common table.

I have some sense as to how rapidly these changes occured and how disruptive they were to you. It is difficult to imagine how that happened. Will it all be reclaimed. I believe that much of it will but how long will it take? I believe that it will take far longer to reclaim it than it took to destroy it. I encourage you to reclaim your patrimony. Get on the Church councils. Don’t let another temple be destroyed to be replaced with an ugly useless building. Learn the ways of holiness and teach them to your children.

CDL