What We Have Lost & the Road to Restoration

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DesertBrother said:
This is an important point. The sacraments are not magic spells that depend on every word being correctly said.

When I was Confirmed, the priest did not say the words correctly, but I still felt the grace of the Holy Spirit, and my life hasn’t been the same since. Humans err, God uses them as instruments, but doesn’t require impeccability. It would have been ridiculous for me to have gone back and ask him to perform my Confirmation again!

I don’t understand the logic in dropping the exorcism prayers form Baptism and Holy Orders, but I don’t think God’s grace that is given is bound by the words used. He’s not a genie.

Many of the charges in this video are true, but to say the Catholic Church is now invalid is crazy. God would not leave us to have to discern for ourselves where His true Church is. It’s where it always has been. The Magesterium is not newly located in California. This seems like the devil stirring up division by focusing us on the externals of our faith like the Pharisees did. We need to work for and pray for restoration of tradition, but not at the expense of schism.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe the externals of our Faith are seriously important, and I hope they are restored soon. I also hope the that some teachings will be more concretely stated by the Vatican to firmly establish the Church’s unchanging dogmas. Maybe there will have to be another Council to correct all the progressive clergy.
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The pink actually makes tons of sense!
And I think that all of us agree that the whole church is not invalid, but it’s nice to see some actual discussion of all of this. 🙂
 
paramedicgirl said:
Just for the record, in the blogging world, when you take some information from another blog and post it on your own, you do the hat tip. It means you are not stealing their information to post as your own.
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Thank you for the instruction. My ignorance of anything blog-related should be quite apparent.

I trust that I did not mistate your position on this matter; if so, allow me to offer a sincere apology.
 
tassitus said:
Thank you for the instruction. My ignorance of anything blog-related should be quite apparent.

I trust that I did not mistate your position on this matter; if so, allow me to offer a sincere apology.
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God Bless you! 🙂
 
paramedicgirl said:
Yes. I have reported her to the mods.
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How sad, she acknowledged a mistake and fixed it and you still feel the need to do this. I don’t understand why a few always feel the need to go after this poster with such zeal. It seems oddly misplaced. Whatever…

You are the OP here and I did watch the video, what I find really sad about all this is that these kinds of videos cause more rancor and divisions in the church then help the situation. It brings scandal to the Church, something we don’t need. I understand the concerns for those who are worried but I have to agree with Puzzleannie where she writes:
watching this video is a complete and utter waste of time. just read the tone of the responses on this thread. it sows a spirit of depression and discord so cannot be of the Holy Spirit.
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better tactic: assist at Mass every Sunday and Holy Day at your own parish or the one that feeds you best, daily Mass when possible, with a spirit of unity with Christ and the whole Church, with a spirit of obedience to our Pope and Bishops who have given us the Order of the Mass, the rubrics, the lectionary and who have been charged by Christ with that responsibility, and who are our divinely ordained shepherds. Spend the effort formerly wasted on websites and books of disobedient, schismatic, bitter, ex-Catholics on developing the virtues, beginning with humility and obedience.
really don’t need.
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Nicely put 🙂
 
Blue_Serenity said:
How is God prevailing when the Mass used to be of great reverence and now it’s become an entertainment?
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All in good time. The last fourty years is a blip in the time span of God, even though it seems like eons to us who have had to live through it.
 
tassitus said:
Thank you for the instruction. My ignorance of anything blog-related should be quite apparent.

I trust that I did not mistate your position on this matter; if so, allow me to offer a sincere apology.
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No harm done. 🙂
 
anamchara said:
How sad, she acknowledged a mistake and fixed it and you still feel the need to do this. I don’t understand why a few always feel the need to go after this poster with such zeal. It seems oddly misplaced. Whatever…
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Two people on this thread apologized for mistatements. It’s not that hard. If an apology had come, I think that things would be different.
You are the OP here and I did watch the video, what I find really sad about all this is that these kinds of videos cause more rancor and divisions in the church then help the situation. It brings scandal to the Church, something we don’t need. I understand the concerns for those who are worried but I have to agree with Puzzleannie where she writes:
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Is something so big that it can’t be discussed?
Yes, it may well cause rancor and divisions but the divisions stay and get bigger when people refuse to discuss other’s concerns.
If the concerns in this video are not discussed, the fester and grow larger.
If they are discussed, and the facts given or logic used, they lessen.

I like what is going on here. We actually are getting somewhere. Maybe the video is wrong. How will we ever find out if it’s kept in a closet and not brought out to the people on CAF who hold more knowledge than the average Pete in the Pew?
 
anamchara said:
How sad, she acknowledged a mistake and fixed it and you still feel the need to do this. I don’t understand why a few always feel the need to go after this poster with such zeal. It seems oddly misplaced. Whatever…
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I reported Joysong’s post to the mods before she removed it, otherwise how could I have reported it? She still refuses to apologize, and did not answer my PM. And she never admitted to making a mistake. That should tell you something…

Now, let’s carry on with the actual discussion the video was intended to generate.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Here is a link to a video that some might find interesting. It is about the changes to the Church, post Vatican II, and how they have affected us. It is about 45 minutes long. **Be prepared to watch a priest do the limbo in Mass **to demonstrate that we have tossed our belief in limbo. There is much more actual footage of real Masses. It makes you want to cry for all we have lost.
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Unfortunately this was done in my diocese, and ironically this is at the same parish were Life Teen started. 😦
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Two people on this thread apologized for mistatements. It’s not that hard.
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And it feels nice! 🙂
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
I like what is going on here. We actually are getting somewhere.
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I think so, too. I intend to spend a bit more time on this Traditional Catholicism forum, and hope that I am able to learn more about the N.O. altnernatives, to which I am both open and interested.

As for the videos, however, I simply would like to see something done by an individual or group with less obvious bias. Because I have a very hard time giving credence to anyone who “badmouths” any Order of the Mass. For now, the N.O. Mass is all many of us have, and anyone disparaging the Mass itself (apart from the ridiculous abuses we all know of), had better do so *very *carefully.

Now I guess I ought to get back to work… Thanks to you all for one of the most interesting mornings I’ve spent on this forum.
 
E.E.N.S said:
Unfortunately this was done in my diocese, and ironically this is at the same parish were Life Teen started. 😦
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You are the second person to recognize and link some of the video footage to your parish. Iinteresting…and some people thought it might be a put on.
 
paramedicgirl said:
You are the second person to recognize and link some of the video footage to your parish. Iinteresting…and some people thought it might be a put on.
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Just for clarification, it is a neighboring parish - St. Tim’s - (actually closer to me than my own parish), but I belong to Mater Misericordiae, (a FSSP parish that celebrates the TLM). 🙂
 
Karin said:
Do you have concern with the abuses that are going on in the CHurch currently and in the past?
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In my opinion, yes, that would be the better way to have phrased it, because that doesn’t seem to imply that Puzzleannie WASN’T concerned about the abuses. You do not, of course, answer to me, but I think we shouldn’t make an assumption unless we have all the facts about someone.

Which leads to the question: does the film simply ask,“Are you concerned with the abuses that are going on in the Church currently and in the past?” No, it doesn’t simply do that. It calls a pope a heretic (modernism being a heretic), a pope who is currently a beatii (Blessed John XXIII). It very strongly seems to imply that the Church doesn’t have the authority over her sacraments that she claims to have and that, “traditionally,” we’ve always believed that she had. It strongly seems to imply that she has (not in her members, but in her very self) fallen into error and lead the faithful into error. This is the danger of “mini-popery.” As an example, AlexV declares, in all of his Christ-given authority, that the removal of the exorcism from the Baptismal rite was a disaster. The Church apparently feels differently, leaning on her own impoverished and apparently witless authority. Now, placing those two views on a balance scale, weighing it out as it were, what is the person who seeks (and I’m sure we all do) to be a faithful and obedient Catholic to do? Which should we use to form our mind, conscience, etc?

I’ve always believed that there is no such thing as a bad question, just a bad conclusion. The film might rightly ask “Why these horrible abuses?” (and they were horrible), but it doesn’t do that. It blames abuse OF the Mass ON the Mass. It engages in the sin of calumny against the Vicar of Christ on earth (calumny, not merely detraction).

I think PuzzleAnnie’s advice about this film is sound. That doesn’t mean that she or I or anyone else aren’t concerned about the very abuses that the film depicts.
 
E.E.N.S said:
Just for clarification, it is a neighboring parish - St. Tim’s - (actually closer to me than my own parish), but I belong to Mater Misericordiae, (a FSSP parish that celebrates the TLM). 🙂
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And how blessed you are to be going there! 🙂 I’m jealous. 😉
 
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