What's a Catholic Grandparent to do?

[oneofmany]

My hubby and I are both Catholic, his second marriage, he had an annulment. He has 2 boys from his first marriage. One boy is married and now has 3 boys himself. During my hubby’s first marriage he took his family to a non-denominational church so his 2 boys only got Sunday school there. Both are not now going to any church.

The problem is when the babies were born we knew they would not get them baptized at all, anywhere, so we baptized them. We were worried if something would happen to them, at least we would be less worried knowing they were at least baptized by us, if no one else.

My sister had the same problem. She raised her son in the church but he married a non-Catholic and they have fallen away from going to church. He has 2 boys. They took the first one to church for baptism soon after he was born but for the second one they waited so my sister baptized him. They finally took him to be baptized by a priest in the church. One priest I told said my sister had really baptized him, the priest just gave him a good hair washing.

Also, my sister has gone to church with her son and his kids on occasion. Her grandkids have had CCD but I guess they didn’t listen very well. They received communion but the one boy won’t keep the host in his mouth. She had to tell her son not to encourage his son to go to communion for that reason.

Any thoughts on this? I really don’t want to encourage my step-son to take his kids to our church if we will have the same problems with his boys. My hubby would love them to become Catholic but my DIL has no interest. It seems the wife makes the call when it comes to what religion the family will be, etc.

Being a Catholic grandparent can be hard.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

My hubby and I are both Catholic, his second marriage, he had an annulment. He has 2 boys from his first marriage. One boy is married and now has 3 boys himself. During my hubby’s first marriage he took his family to a non-denominational church so his 2 boys only got Sunday school there. Both are not now going to any church.

The problem is when the babies were born we knew they would not get them baptized at all, anywhere, so we baptized them. We were worried if something would happen to them, at least we would be less worried knowing they were at least baptized by us, if no one else.

My sister had the same problem. She raised her son in the church but he married a non-Catholic and they have fallen away from going to church. He has 2 boys. They took the first one to church for baptism soon after he was born but for the second one they waited so my sister baptized him. They finally took him to be baptized by a priest in the church. One priest I told said my sister had really baptized him, the priest just gave him a good hair washing.

Also, my sister has gone to church with her son and his kids on occasion. Her grandkids have had CCD but I guess they didn’t listen very well. They received communion but the one boy won’t keep the host in his mouth. She had to tell her son not to encourage his son to go to communion for that reason.

Any thoughts on this? I really don’t want to encourage my step-son to take his kids to our church if we will have the same problems with his boys. My hubby would love them to become Catholic but my DIL has no interest. It seems the wife makes the call when it comes to what religion the family will be, etc.

Being a Catholic grandparent can be hard.

I’m not a grandparent, I’m afraid I cannot give you advice on that.

I am a godparent though and feel like your role in your grandchildrens lives is similar to that role however in your case the parents don’t appear too interested in spiritual matters.

It’s hard to see family not getting involved or uninterested in the faith especially where children’s souls are involved.

Continue being interested in their spiritual well being. Pray for them. You are planting seeds.

I will pray for you and your family.

 

[St_Francis]

First of all, you all have to stop baptizing the children!!!

A lay baptism like this should be performed **only **when the child is in danger of death.

The Church Herself does not allow baptism unless there is a good chance the child will be brought up Catholic.

Among other things, if your grandchildren were to convert as adults, they would be unknowingly already baptized, and they would not confess their sins, thinking they would be washed away with the baptism they would be performing in ignorance of its falsity.

And, yes, it is hard being a grandparent! But you have to let go. The best thing for you to do is to pray and make sacrifices for your (step)children and their children, and maintain good relations with them, which means not interfering. I have an older daughter whose decisions I am not always happy about, too, and I know how hard it is!

You and your sister might go and discuss what you have done with a priest to see what should be done. Don’t talk ti the one who laughed it off, talk to a priest who will take it seriously.

 

[Eleanor61]

As for the church only baptizing a child if there is a good chance the child will be brought up Catholic, then why were my nephew’s adopted children baptized when he is a practicing homosexual in a relationship which is completely outside of Church teaching? Children are baptized every day by priests who have a pretty good idea that they will see them again only for first communion and maybe confirmation. I think you mean even a tiny chance, at least that is what I see. It is very difficult for a priest to refuse anyone a sacrament, which is why Joe Biden is a frequent communicant in our parish, being from our diocese.

It is not advisable for the grandparents to be so involved, but you can make a case for what they did. I know of nurses who do this all the time, lay baptism, and the child is not necessarily in danger of death. There are also those who would say the child is in danger of spiritual death, if you hold to the traditional definition of baptism, not as some initiating ceremony into the church but as removing actual original sin.

If it is any consolation, whether the mom goes to church or not doesn’t make much impact, it is the father’s practice that sticks with the kids, according to research. I do agree that the grandparents need to surrender the outcomes to God.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Among other things, if your grandchildren were to convert as adults, they would be unknowingly already baptized, and they would not confess their sins, thinking they would be washed away with the baptism they would be performing in ignorance of its falsity.

Just on this one note… they wouldn’t be held responsible for sins that they honestly believed, in good faith, were already forgiven… the confession would thus still forgive the sins that weren’t confessed, just as they always forgive the sins we’ve forgotten to confess when we forget something in good faith.

 

[St_Francis]

As for the church only baptizing a child if there is a good chance the child will be brought up Catholic, then why were my nephew’s adopted children baptized when he is a practicing homosexual in a relationship which is completely outside of Church teaching? Children are baptized every day by priests who have a pretty good idea that they will see them again only for first communion and maybe confirmation. I think you mean even a tiny chance, at least that is what I see. It is very difficult for a priest to refuse anyone a sacrament, which is why Joe Biden is a frequent communicant in our parish, being from our diocese.

Look at the rules of the Church. The fact that random people, nurses or even priests, do not follow the *teachings *of the Church does not mean it is all right.

And I agree that pro-abortion politicians receiving Communion is a scandal–but it is a scandal because it is wrong. Baptizing children without the knowledge that there is angood chance they will be brought up Catholic is *also *wrong–it’s just not national news.

It is not advisable for the grandparents to be so involved, but you can make a case for what they did. I know of nurses who do this all the time, lay baptism, and the child is not necessarily in danger of death. There are also those who would say the child is in danger of spiritual death, if you hold to the traditional definition of baptism, not as some initiating ceremony into the church but as removing actual original sin.

If it is any consolation, whether the mom goes to church or not doesn’t make much impact, it is the father’s practice that sticks with the kids, according to research. I do agree that the grandparents need to surrender the outcomes to God.

 

[St_Francis]

Here is a good explantion for not baptizing children without assurance they will be raised Catholic

A couple of points made in the article: if a baby or child is *not *in danger of death, a parent must consent and there must be a good assurance the child will be raised Catholic. If a baby or child below the age of reason and reasonably likely to die before attaining the age of reason, he or she should be baptized. This does not need to consent of the parents.

As to why healthier babies or children should be refused baptism if there is insufficient assurance he or she will be raised Catholic, from the link:

Everyone is required to keep the precepts of the natural moral law, but Baptized Catholics are held to a higher standard under penalty of sin.  We are required to attend Mass on Sundays and holy days;  to observe the laws of fasting and abstinence;  to contribute to the support of the Church and clergy;  to observe the laws concerning marriage, confession, and the reception of Holy Communion;  and may be bound by other particular laws as well.  While there might be some excuse for the person unaware of his Baptism as an infant, the obligations of Church law would bind those who were aware in much the same way as they bind the fallen away children of lackadaisical Catholic households.

So a person who has been baptized but not raised Catholic is in *greater *eternal peril than is the same person who has not been baptized.

It is not that I or the Church do not believe in the efficacy and actual action of the sacrament, but that there are ramifications that many are not aware of.

 

[mountee]

Your best course of action as a grandparent is to model your faith and how happy it makes you on a daily basis. Let your grandchildren see you being a happy Catholic and want to be like you. I am the grandparent of 5 Catholic children and I know that even though they are being raised Catholic if they don’t come to love their faith they will fall away as they grow up. I try to show them how important it is to me and I would do this whether they were Catholic or not. Be patient and most importantly, pray without ceasing. God will take care of it for you.

 

[brooklynavegirl]

Lovely answer. That is the best course- don’t interfere, don’t stop praying!

 

[Jeanne_S]

Your best course of action as a grandparent is to model your faith and how happy it makes you on a daily basis. Let your grandchildren see you being a happy Catholic and want to be like you. I am the grandparent of 5 Catholic children and I know that even though they are being raised Catholic if they don’t come to love their faith they will fall away as they grow up. I try to show them how important it is to me and I would do this whether they were Catholic or not. Be patient and most importantly, pray without ceasing. God will take care of it for you.

Well said! God is the hound of heaven

 

[maryjk]

The problem is when the babies were born we knew they would not get them baptized at all, anywhere, so we baptized them. We were worried if something would happen to them, at least we would be less worried knowing they were at least baptized by us, if no one else.

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding this, but…you took the grandkids to be baptized without their parents’ knowledge?
If so, that sounds very…dishonest.
If the parents find out, they will be very upset and rightly so, and they will not trust you in the future with their kids.

I thought at least one parent had to give consent for such a thing?
And that the priest checks that at least one parent is present and/or has done so?
.

It sounds to me as though they Baptized the children at home. And the grandparents did the baptizing.

It is something they have to tell the parents. But as a parent, if I found out my in-laws did something as big as this behind my back, well, let’s just say, we wouldn’t be on speaking terms.

(My child has been baptized. When I say that I would be upset, it would be if they did something as life changing as this without discussing it with me.)

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I hate to be harsh, but I don’t understand what standing you think you have here if you are not the parents…

 

[KCT]

And, yes, it is hard being a grandparent! But you have to let go. The best thing for you to do is to pray and make sacrifices for your (step)children and their children, and maintain good relations with them, which means not interfering.

Grandma in a similar situation to the OP…I agree with what’s above.

 

[oneofmany]

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding this, but…you took the grandkids to be baptized without their parents’ knowledge?
If so, that sounds very…dishonest.
If the parents find out, they will be very upset and rightly so, and they will not trust you in the future with their kids.

I thought at least one parent had to give consent for such a thing?
And that the priest checks that at least one parent is present and/or has done so?

.

No, we would not do that and I don’t think a priest would do it without informing the parents anyway. We did it at our home with Holy Water and said the words of baptism when they were babies. Even they didn’t know what was happening to them so they would not tell their parents.

It may be keeping the parents out of it but we feel better about removing the original sin. I thought that was what baptism was for. I see many Catholic children who were baptized and they aren’t being brought up Catholic anyway. Like my nephew, his children hardly ever attend church and go to public school. My nephew tried to find a CCD class for them but he could never get them to call back, so he gave up. Then if his son is not keeping the host in his mouth what kind of religious teaching did he get anyway? Not all CCD teachers know what they are teaching.

If the parents don’t care about the faith and find out the grandparents baptized the child what difference would it make to them if it means nothing to them? It would be like grandma gave you an extra hair wash. HAHAHA But we don’t ever intend to tell them. Not because we want to keep secrets from them but we don’t want to open a pandora’s box, kinda like letting the kids have an extra treats or stay up really late without telling the parents. I am sure grandparents do these things all the time when the parents let them babysit plus it’s not like we are telling the kids never to let their parents know and we take them off to church all the time.

Actually, we have taken the kids to church when they stay all night and the parents know. The oldest would go to church with us all the time if he could, he loves it.

 

[Bklynguy]

My hubby and I are both Catholic, his second marriage, he had an annulment. He has 2 boys from his first marriage. One boy is married and now has 3 boys himself. During my hubby’s first marriage he took his family to a non-denominational church so his 2 boys only got Sunday school there. Both are not now going to any church.

The problem is when the babies were born we knew they would not get them baptized at all, anywhere, so we baptized them. We were worried if something would happen to them, at least we would be less worried knowing they were at least baptized by us, if no one else.

My sister had the same problem. She raised her son in the church but he married a non-Catholic and they have fallen away from going to church. He has 2 boys. They took the first one to church for baptism soon after he was born but for the second one they waited so my sister baptized him. They finally took him to be baptized by a priest in the church. One priest I told said my sister had really baptized him, the priest just gave him a good hair washing.

Also, my sister has gone to church with her son and his kids on occasion. Her grandkids have had CCD but I guess they didn’t listen very well. They received communion but the one boy won’t keep the host in his mouth. She had to tell her son not to encourage his son to go to communion for that reason.

Any thoughts on this? I really don’t want to encourage my step-son to take his kids to our church if we will have the same problems with his boys. My hubby would love them to become Catholic but my DIL has no interest. It seems the wife makes the call when it comes to what religion the family will be, etc.

Being a Catholic grandparent can be hard.

This is going to sound harsh, but as grandparents, you have no right to baptize grandchildren behind the parents’ backs. The Church is very strict on this. Bishops have overturned baptisms because they were done without the consent of the parents.

 

[maryjk]

If the parents don’t care about the faith and find out the grandparents baptized the child what difference would it make to them if it means nothing to them? ** It would be like grandma gave you an extra hair wash. HAHAHA ** But we don’t ever intend to tell them. Not because we want to keep secrets from them but we don’t want to open a pandora’s box, kinda like letting the kids have an extra treats or stay up really late without telling the parents. I am sure grandparents do these things all the time when the parents let them babysit plus it’s not like we are telling the kids never to let their parents know and we take them off to church all the time.

Actually, we have taken the kids to church when they stay all night and the parents know. The oldest would go to church with us all the time if he could, he loves it.

I CANNOT believe you are so cavalier about the Sacrament of Baptism.

No, it is not like washing their hair. Or allowing them extra treats.

Although you didn’t intend to ever tell them, you need to. In fact, you need to report the Baptism to their parish. It needs to be recorded, so they aren’t Baptized again.

Of course, now that they are Baptized, they will need to be taught the faith. You do know that, right??? They now need to meet all of the obligations of a Catholic. You know things like, they have to be married in the Church. Once they are old enough to drive, they should be attending Mass every Sunday.

In answer to your original question, what is a Catholic Grandparent to do? If you were my child’s grandparent? I would want you to stay out of their life.

 

[oneofmany]

Whooo that is harsh, I don’t think the parents would think that way. Guess a priest can tell me why I now need to get in the parents face and MAKE them let us take over their kids religion, etc.

I don’t think that is going to happen anyway so there is no way I can do it. I didn’t **say I **thought it was just like washing their hair, I said maybe the parents would think of it that way. They don’t attend any church so I don’t think they are even going to have their kids baptized anywhere. They don’t have a parish, they don’t have anything so there is nowhere to report it to.

We would like the kids to attend Catholic school and the parents don’t like the public schools in our city so they may let them do that someday. My Step-son said he would join the church if his kids could go to Catholic school but I don’t think that is a good reason to become Catholic.

Anyway, their mother’s mother is experimenting with being a lesbian so we are also in a quandary about what to say about that to them someday, if anything. I think we do have some time to think about all of this anyway since they are only 8 months, 3 years and 4 years.

My hubby said we can encourage them to think about church so we will probably keep tilting in that direction. Their mother is liberal though so she may never consider the Catholic church if they join any. She may consider a more liberal one.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

You are really overstepping your bounds now.

 

[VivienneJ]

No, we would not do that and I don’t think a priest would do it without informing the parents anyway. We did it at our home with Holy Water and said the words of baptism when they were babies. Even they didn’t know what was happening to them so they would not tell their parents.

It may be keeping the parents out of it but we feel better about removing the original sin. I thought that was what baptism was for.
…
kinda like letting the kids have an extra treats or stay up really late without telling the parents. I am sure grandparents do these things all the time when the parents let them babysit

I CANNOT believe you are so cavalier about the Sacrament of Baptism.

No, it is not like washing their hair. Or allowing them extra treats.

Although you didn’t intend to ever tell them, you need to. In fact, you need to report the Baptism to their parish. It needs to be recorded, so they aren’t Baptized again.

Of course, now that they are Baptized, they will need to be taught the faith. You do know that, right??? They now need to meet all of the obligations of a Catholic. You know things like, they have to be married in the Church. Once they are old enough to drive, they should be attending Mass every Sunday.

In answer to your original question, what is a Catholic Grandparent to do? If you were my child’s grandparent? I would want you to stay out of their life.

Whooo that is harsh, I don’t think the parents would think that way. Guess a priest can tell me why I now need to get in the parents face and MAKE them let us take over their kids religion, etc.

I doubt there is any not harsh way of saying this. Yes baptism removes original sin and is important for that reason, but it also marks the soul of the one baptised as a Catholic, this mark can’t be removed. Your grandchildren now have to follow all Catholic teaching, even if no one ever tells them what these teachings are.

So they will be expected to go to Mass every Sunday and all Holy Days of Obligation; they will have to follow Catholic rules for marriage, so, in effect you have set your grandchildren up for entering illicit marriages, marriages that could be annulled easily (found not to have been marriages at all due to lack of form); if they were to use artificial contraception or IVF they would be taking sinful actions, without even realising it. There are so many situations they could get into where the culture around them sees no problem, but which are sinful for their Catholic souls. The full gravity of these actions would probably be somewhat less because of their ignorance.

As a grandmother myself, I can understand how you came to make this mistake, but I suggest you set up a meeting with your priest to talk about this action of yours and get his advice on what is the proper thing to do for those precious children, given the actions that have been taken so far.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You seem to think very little of your grandchildren’s parents and view yourself as a noble white knight who’s here to save them. But that is not the case. You are NOT the parents and you are clearly overstepping your bounds.

In the eyes of your church you have harmed these kids greatly. In the eyes of everyone else you are acting like an awful person. Either way something needs to change.