What's a clear, charitable "come-back" for protestants?

[IgnatiusJReilly]

i hoped so but it did sound like something i most likely would have said. two years ago. i am still fighting my human nature when it comes to my temper. guess that is why i am a farmer i the middle of no where,

I’m actually not angry at him. I actually understand where he’s coming from more than he knows.

I guess my definition of charity includes being brutal sometimes.

There’s this idea from Cicero that a true friend is one that will lead you or push you towards the path to virtue - even at the cost of being a little rough about it.

That’s part of my conversion story, actually. A friend of mine was pretty brutal with me about some of the things I believed and espoused. In the end I converted, and that friend was my sponsor. He’s now the godfather to my two youngest.

I love your sig, BTW. That, to me, is the best prayer ever.

 

[fbl9]

thanks for myself i would not react perhaps the way you did normally some one who pushes me gets pushed back. my temper is/was one of my greater flaws. i came here to learn more about the faith i finally embraced. somethings have been learned these last few days hope to learn moreand yes my signature is a prayer for all including those not in full communion with the church

 

[scott1228]

To Cat: I just want to say that I thought your answer was excellent. I disagree with those that gave smart-alecky responses.

To those that are arguing with Fred, I don’t think any of your answers will convince him. It appears that he has come to this site just to aggravate Catholics.

Reading his replies, I came up with a list of things that are unbiblical:

1. The list of books that make up the Bible. This was not written at the time the Bible was written.
2. Nowhere do I find that the Bible is to be interpreted by oneself.
3. Nowhere do I find someone reading the Bible and making up their own church. Those that believed, joined the church. Period.

Have a nice day, even you, Fred!

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually, there were other “Christianities” - a whole slew of them in fact - that were co-existant with the proto-orthodox (who became the Catholics).

In the first century, there were only Catholic Christians. Anyone else was either a Gnostic or a Jew, neither of which are Christian.

 

[FredSmith]

No, God showed me that the Bible is a Catholic book!

Then it was the god of this world, not the God of the Bible.

Nothing in Scripture contradicts the Catholic faith.

Nothing except praying to the dead, worshipping Mary, Purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, sprinkling children, etc.

Which came first, the Church or the Bible?

Which came first: the church or the books commonly recognized as making up 2/3 of the Bible?

Every Christian who accepts the 27 New Testament books as canonical Scripture recognizes the authority of the Catholic Church to determine what is Scripture and what is spurious.

No they don’t.

You didn’t answer my question: I was a Christian in a “Bible believing, Bible preaching” church for many years, and then God called me to become Catholic. Has my salvation been forfeited because of it?

I don’t see any evidence that you were born again to begin with. Going to a “Bible believing, Bible preaching” church doesn’t save you any more than going to a Roman Catholic church does.

That’s not even remotely the same thing.

Yes, they’re the same thing.

On one corner you have a church that believes baptism is salvific, but only for adults. One the next corner you have a church that believes baptism is a symbolic gesture. Go down the road three blocks and there’s a church that baptizes infants because they believe it’s the new circumcision and makes their children members of the New Covenant. Go around the corner and there’s a church that baptizes in the name of Jesus only. Down the road some more and you’ll find a church that doesn’t practice water baptism at all. Each church can open their Bibles and show you Scripture verses to persuasively defend their particular leanings. Each church will tell you that the Holy Spirit led them to the conclusions they’ve drawn from Scripture. But they can’t all be right, can they?

And isn’t it wonderful that they’re all united around the essentials!

 

[FredSmith]

please do tell us you ar not serious in saying FredSmith attends services at a circus. i thought you are more charitable then that. you are giving him less reason to listen

Are you kidding me? In two days, I’ve been called “a snowcovered dunghill”, “delusional”, “mentally incompetent”, an “idiot” (by somebody who couldn’t even spell “idiot”, by the way). After all of that, why on Earth would you be surprised that a Roman Catholic would say such a thing?

 

[CentralFLJames]

i hoped so but it did sound like something i most likely would have said. two years ago. i am still fighting my human nature when it comes to my temper. guess that is why i am a farmer i the middle of no where,

As a farmer, no doubt you are outstanding in your field.

James

 

[fbl9]

hi FredSmith how coming back after you have finished with the early church fathers lesson maybe then you may have a clearer view of what is the truth not just what your group wants it to be. by the looks of it there are some here including myself ready to totally DOS in your case.by the way my signature alplies most sincerely to you.hope you get feeling better

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’m actually not angry at him. I actually understand where he’s coming from more than he knows.

I guess my definition of charity includes being brutal sometimes.

There’s this idea from Cicero that a true friend is one that will lead you or push you towards the path to virtue - even at the cost of being a little rough about it.

That’s part of my conversion story, actually. A friend of mine was pretty brutal with me about some of the things I believed and espoused. In the end I converted, and that friend was my sponsor. He’s now the godfather to my two youngest.

I love your sig, BTW. That, to me, is the best prayer ever.

Agree. Sometimes, when one can not appeal to reason or get through disordered stubbornness one has to approach it as an emotional level. We must weigh the risks of alienation against the probability for success of invoking a positive change. But I think that its more important to get someone the truth with a robust method than it is to respect their right to be wrong and have them go through life on a path that looks like it leads to eternal damnation. The sure fire way to promote a behavior change or open someone’s eyes to reality is to invoke a stress adaptation. A lesson by profound behavior counter-example only works when somone has an open heart and mind and an active desire to take in new ideas.

James

 

[FredSmith]

hi FredSmith how coming back after you have finished with the early church fathers lesson maybe then you may have a clearer view of what is the truth not just what your group wants it to be. by the looks of it there are some here including myself ready to totally DOS in your case.by the way my signature alplies most sincerely to you.hope you get feeling better

Is English not your first language? Your posts are really difficult to read.

 

[fbl9]

talk about insulting people look at you ignorant post to me. i am finished may God do with you as He wishes.

 

[teadough]

Fredsmith
2 questions?

1.Do you feel the Holy Spirit steered you to this site?

2.If a Catholic believes in the same Father,Son,&Holy Spirit as you,yet,combines that same beliefe as yours but with the addition of partaking in the Catholic Church’s Sacrements as well,then are “we” Catholics possibly “saved” as you view being “saved”?

 

[FredSmith]

talk about insulting people look at you ignorant post to me.

I’m sorry that you feel it’s ignorant to want to be able to understand your posts, which are so poorly punctuated and with words so badly misspelled that it’s often like trying to solve a puzzle just to talk to you.

 

[FredSmith]

Fredsmith
2 questions?

1.Do you feel the Holy Spirit steered you to this site?

No.

2.If a Catholic believes in the same Father,Son,&Holy Spirit as you,yet,combines that same beliefe as yours but with the addition of partaking in the Catholic Church’s Sacrements as well,then are “we” Catholics possibly “saved” as you view being “saved”?

Believing in the “Father, Son, &Holy Spirit” doesn’t save anyone.

 

[teadough]

Fredsmith posted

“Believing in the “Father, Son, &Holy Spirit” doesn’t save anyone”

What does? I have no comback for you no matter what you say.I just want to understand your views.

 

[qui_est_ce]

In the first century, there were only Catholic Christians. Anyone else was either a Gnostic or a Jew, neither of which are Christian.

Hi Manny,
Yes, there were a lot of heretics in those days, Nestorians, Gnostics, Arians, etc.

Was it the Nestorian Heresy that held that Mary was not the mother of God (Theodokus)?

 

[SD_Catholic]

Are you kidding me? In two days, I’ve been called “a snowcovered dunghill”, “delusional”, “mentally incompetent”, an “idiot” (by somebody who couldn’t even spell “idiot”, by the way). After all of that, why on Earth would you be surprised that a Roman Catholic would say such a thing?

Here add this to your list Fred…“hypocrite”…if this makes you feel bad then you are feeling bad about what you are ( I believe in this situation it is not uncharitable to point out to Fred what he is acting like). To say everyone here is so rude for saying these things and then tell us that all Catholics are going to hell, and also replying to posts in the manner in which you do makes you a hypocrite… shall we list all the things you’ve called everyone in the short amount of time you’ve been here? Actually forget that part… you know… and it would be a total waste of time. Besides I asked you one simple question as did others and you have yet to answer it. In what denomination’s worshiping building do you attend all these Christian events?

SD

 

[IgnatiusJReilly]

The sure fire way to promote a behavior change or open someone’s eyes to reality is to invoke a stress adaptation.

Of course, the downside to this approach (as has been demonstrated in this thread) is that the person you are talking with might stick their fingers in their ears and sing “LA LA LA LA LA!!! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!” and boldly run away.

So, if the person with whom you are dialoging has a problem with cowardice, it won’t work.

Although, I can’t say that either. I’ve boldly run away from other situations only to have them gnaw at me and demand a resolution later.

In whatever its form, you can’t ultimately run from the truth, I guess.

 

[SD_Catholic]

talk about insulting people look at you ignorant post to me. i am finished may God do with you as He wishes.

hey fb19… did you ever raise pigs? That would definetly explain the previous temper issue…

 

[jmcrae]

Hi Manny,
Yes, there were a lot of heretics in those days, Nestorians, Gnostics, Arians, etc.

Was it the Nestorian Heresy that held that Mary was not the mother of God (Theodokus)?

The Nestorian heresy states that Christ is two persons: one human, and one divine. They taught that Mary was the mother of His human person, but not of His divine person.

This heresy was condemned twice; first at the Council of Ephesus in 431, which was where Mary received the title of “Theotokos” (God-bearer) and the second at Chalcedon in 451, which was where she officially received the title that first was given to her by her cousin Elizabeth, “Mother of God.”