When did Catholics shift this far towards the right/conservatism?

[TRose225]

BLMs page has stated “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable,” it says on the page titled “What we believe.” They also are for abortion. “we deserve, and thus we demand, reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe and able to thrive.”

I would never associate with that organization as a Catholic.

 

[RhodesianSon]

so you can’t really have one without the other.

Sort of. True Judaism ended with the destruction of the temple by the Romans I ~70AD. What is now called Judaism is a poor imitation. No priesthood, no sacrifice, no nation (modern Israel doesn’t count for the same reasons). The Catholic Church/Christ has replaced those things.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

Absolutely true, completely agree. Didn’t really bring that up because well, I’m not trying to complicate things. This is the type of stuff that takes forever to explain.

Yet, Catholics still believe that the Jewish people will still be converted before the end of time. So there is still some semblance of Judaism in the world today, but it certainly is a shell of what it was. (Because it just turned into Catholicism, wink wink)

 

[PrayForMe]

OP, much of what you describe does not even seem applicable to the average Catholic but to many “Traditionalist” Catholics. Nonetheless, some of your assertions are worth addressing.

Fears about leftism, socialism, communism, Marxism, i.e. anything left of the above.

Um, yes, because those things are all contrary to Catholic teaching (and, for that matter, Christianity period).

Praise for Putin; denial of interference in western democracy.

What are you talking about? This is not a “Catholic” issue, this is just what some Trump supporters are guilty of. This has nothing to do with views of the typical Catholic.

Reliance on right-wing media (Breitbart, Fox, RedState, LifeSite, Washington Examiner, NY Post) with no awareness of their bias.

This is indeed an issue with some, but this is, again, is not a “Catholic issue”. You’re generalizing. This is an issue not even just with those on the right, but those on all ends of the political spectrum and with America in general; we have become so partisan we cannot see how biased we often are.

Hostile to mainstream media; perception that objective news sources, e.g. BBC, are biased; perception that fact-checking sources, e.g. Snopes, Full Fact, are biased.

Well, this is partly true for the reason I just mentioned above about partisanship. However, there is good reason to be suspicious of the mainstream media nowadays. Partisanship aside, the media is largely comprised of those on the left, and some Americans are tired of being told by the media how they have to think and behave instead of just being given the news in an unbiased manner.

Anti-Semitic canards: Jewish influence in media, entertainment, finance, as well as in communism, dog-whistles about Soros; reference to “cultural Marxism” (Nazi conspiracy theory).

This is a view more prevalent with pre-Vatican II, or “Traditional” Catholics. Again, this is not reflective of the views of most Catholics. You’re generalizing again.

Covid-19: anti-lockdowns, anti-masks.

The anti-mask movement is stupid, but I am opposed to lockdowns unless absolutely necessary. They have an unintentional consequence, which is the economic and mental damage they cause.

Anti-feminism; support for an exaggerated form of masculinity.

You’ll need to elaborate on this point, specifically on how you define “feminism”.

A readiness to explain (or overlook) appalling behaviour by Trump; false claims about Biden (e.g. dementia); unsubstantiated claims of electoral fraud.

Overlook appalling behavior from Trump? Yes, you do see some of that, I agree. And I also agree the electoral fraud claims are unsubstantiated. As for Biden, I don’t know if he has dementia, but it is clear he’s aging, that much is certain. And I don’t care for him as a candidate or politician.

 

[Fauken]

This is a view more prevalent with pre-Vatican II, or “Traditional” Catholics. Again, this is not reflective of the views of most Catholics. You’re generalizing again.

Even then this a more extreme view among traditional Catholics. Traditionalism is a spectrum, and not all of us are anti-Semitic.

 

[PrayForMe]

Even then this a more extreme view among traditional Catholics. Traditionalism is a spectrum, and not all of us are anti-Semitic.

Correct, thank you. I did not mean to imply that. I tried editing my post but it wouldn’t let me.

 

[FrankFletcher]

Methodist:

Franco, Salazar, and Pinochet were examples of good Catholic rulers.

I believe they were decent men who did the best they could given the circumstances they were in, and that their rule was better for the Church than the alternative.

 

[TRose225]

The Democratic party has shifted far left since the 70-90s. No doubt about it. They used to find things to compromise with Republicans then-like Welfare reform. Now the Dems refuse to put forward a bill for ANYTHING that Republicans would agree with them on without add-ons for every entitlement they want. While the Republican party has shifted a little more to the center, the Dems are uncompromising in their far Left beliefs. Maybe it’s just that many Catholics do not think the extreme views of the modern Left are something they identify with anymore.

 

[RhodesianSon]

What? Had the Republicans won in the Spanish civil war they’d have committed Stalin-esque mass killings against priests and nuns. There’s a reason the church sided with Franco.

Yeah, Franco killed those who sought to subvert Spain. He wasn’t innocent, but he was better than the alternative. As were Pinochet and Salazar.

 

[sealabeag]

Amnesty International

Your OP is very long, and many others have responded but just one example, in answer to one of the items on your list - Catholics shifted away from organisations like Amnesty International when they shifted to the extreme left and began supporting causes like killing unborn babies as a human right.

 

[on_the_hill]

Thank you for your reply. My comments are based on what I have seen on CAF over the
Interesting. I didn’t know that it was, for example, Church teaching and tradition to repeatedly claim, with no evidence, that a politician has dementia when he clearly doesn’t.

I didn’t know that it was Church teaching and tradition to argue that prisoners should be denied proper dental treatment.

I didn’t know that it was Church teaching and tradition to write-off the first black president of South Africa as a terrorist and call for statues of him to be destroyed.

I didn’t know that it was Church teaching and tradition to repeatedly and forcefully argue that Abraham Lincoln started an unconstitutional and illegal war of aggression and to falsify history to claim that the Confederacy was in no way racist or founded for the purpose of maintaining slavery.

I didn’t know that orthodox adherence to the Catholic faith required believers to promote a paranoid, hysterical fear of any political ideology short of small government, low taxation and low public spending, and privatised, deregulated free-market capitalism or a similar paranoid, hysterical fear of any movement which challenges the oppression of women and minorities. I also didn’t know that Catholics were called upon by the Church to deliberately misrepresent statistics to claim that a majority of interracial crime involves black people victimising white people and that white people are more likely than black people to be killed by the police.

This. American Catholics have been, for years now, led like sheep by conservative political ideologues who are manipulating us to support political agendas. These people foment resentment, stoke fears, and spread the idolatry of patriotism at our expense.

The virus of angry political conservatism will hurt the Church more than covid will.

 

[RhodesianSon]

spread the idolatry of patriotism at our expense.

Lol converting to Catholicism made me more critical of the US than ever. It’s led me to the belief the Democratic government is incompatible with Christianity. And as such I would love to see to America Balkanize and something better, holier, and Catholic arise from the ashes.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Your first post on a Catholic forum, huh?
. . . .

 

[otjm]

Maybe it’s just that many Catholics do not think the extreme views of the modern Left are something they identify with anymore.

While the topic is “Catholics”, it appears that a very large number of people in the US do not agree with the emphasis of the Socialists and the Marxists who appear to feel they have a significant role in determining where the party goes; it is going to be “interesting” to see how Biden and Harris deal with the issues. BLM and Antifa have made no bones about their intentions to continue to be “activists”; the riots continue in Portland (including Thanksgiving day, with graffiti and windows broken of multiple businesses). And the two groups continue to insist they will be pushing for more police agencies to be defunded and more defunding of the agencies already suffering cuts. That is not going to be on the federal level, it will be local.

Far, far too many people are living in an intellectual bubble. And if history is any example, when matters get too far in one direction, there is a tendency for a snap-back, too often not to the middle but in the other direction. Replacing one wrong with another wrong does not make anything right.

 

[sealabeag]

I didn’t know that it was Church teaching and tradition to argue that prisoners should be denied proper dental treatment…

I didn’t know that it was Church teaching and tradition to repeatedly and forcefully argue that Abraham Lincoln started an unconstitutional and illegal war of aggression and to falsify history to claim that the Confederacy was in no way racist or founded for the purpose of maintaining slavery.

I’ve never seen anyone ever mention any of these things here on CAF, or if they have, it’s a forgettable minority. I don’t know what Catholics you’ve been hanging out with.

 

[Fauken]

I’ve never seen anyone ever mention any of these things here on CAF, or if they have, it’s a forgettable minority. I don’t know what Catholics you’ve been hanging out with.

I’ve seen a lot on this forum, but never have I ever seen someone argue Lost Cause Revisionism, much less it being a tolerated view here.

You know where I’d bet that would be discussed though? World News. And that dumpster fire is hardly representative of this forum, much less Catholicism.

 

[RhodesianSon]

someone argue Lost Cause Revisionism

There was one poster who used to go on about it. Can’t remember their name.

 

[Fauken]

There was one poster who used to go on about it. Can’t remember their name.

I could certainly be wrong about it never being promoted here. My memory isn’t the greatest. But still, if it was as widespread as the OP seems to imply, I’d remember that.

 

[RhodesianSon]

It certainly wasn’t wide spread.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

“Woke”, “wokeness”, “wokedom” used as pejoratives; attacks on liberals, progressives, “social justice warriors”, “snowflakes”, “virtue signalling”.

That’s understandable because they have gone a little off the rails.