When did Catholics shift this far towards the right/conservatism?

[Methodist]

It sounds as if you are deeply political, and uncomfortable in any environment where those with a different political opinion even have a presence.

Not at all, but there’s the normal range of opinions and then the range of opinions that are outside the norm. I do not have a problem debating with Conservatives, Liberal Democrats, Scottish Nationalists, etc, or with US Republicans or other mainstream supporters of right-wing parties.

However, some of the views found on CAF are well beyond the mainstream. I am thinking, for example, of a user such as @RuthAnne (@RuthAnne, I have tagged you so that you have the opportunity to respond). There are numerous posts in which she insists that allowing one’s children to attend school constitutes allowing them to be raised by the state. This is clearly well beyond the normal range of political opinion. She is also against vaccines. She also believes that her husband was right to refuse to employ people of a certain race, which she never named, because she thinks that they make poor employees. She seemingly accepts that this is racist, but doesn’t think it should be illegal. She also has a lot of weird ideas about Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War.

Or @Anonkun still claiming on 19 November that Trump has been elected for another four years. Again tagging so that he has the opportunity to respond. He also posted:

Which N word? Naughty? Notice? You have to be more specific

Now, it would probably be against forum rules to call this racist, but I am going to say it is the closest thing to racist that I can probably get away with saying on here and not getting another post deleted. Come on, we all know what “the N-word” means.

Or @redbetta:

you often see news articles in the US of trashy lesbian couples being arrested for stuff like child abuse or assaulting fast food workers.

This is the kind of thing which I find to be beyond what I care to engage with.

If you look at all the modern socialist countries in Europe(relatively small populations compared to the U.S. btw) they shame women into killing Downs Syndrome babies, and coerce euthanasia among the elderly and mentally ill.

Clearly not true, as there are only three countries in Europe where euthanasia are legal.

Anyway, I find it hilarious on a forum where people are constantly talking about “totalitarianism” creeping in from the left that large chunks of my OP has been redacted on spurious grounds! How can I be prevented from saying that people on here have said that there are no-go zones in European cities when someone has literally said exactly that?

"Socialism always fails, even so-called democratic socialism" Social Justice

Now, as to the existence of no-go zones: –They exist in Germany: Angela Merkel admitted they did in a February 2018 interview. –They exist in France. The New Republic has said no-go zones had developed in France due to a failure to integrate immigrants from France’s former colonies. –They exist in the UK: Suffice it to sy, it is most certainly NOT “complete nonsense” as you write. If anything, I’d say the same of your own claims.

 

[Methodist]

I’ve never seen anyone ever mention any of these things here on CAF, or if they have, it’s a forgettable minority. I don’t know what Catholics you’ve been hanging out with.

Islam as a system of life Non-Catholic Religions

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, som…

South Africa's lesbians fear 'corrective rape' [to "cure" them] World News

A good horsewhipping might cure them of this predeliction,plus a week in the stocks.I would say we should disarm them but that would be against my faith. In Canada until the early sixties rapists and armed robbers would be flogged or “paddled”(a much,much worse corporal punishment than the lash) as part of their sentence.The punishment would be given twice over the period of their sentence.If sentenced to twelve strokes they would be given six allowed to heal and contemplate receiving the next…

Iran girl gets 100 lashes for sex World News

About 15 years ago my City Councilor made the serious suggestion that we reinstitute stocks back into the Boston Common and a public whipping post for floggings. I totally agree with this idea, and others supported his suggestion, but it was vetoed by the mayor. But like the death penalty, it would be managed by an inept and broken American legal system which cannot accurately determine guilt from innocence, and we could easily sentence an innocent man to either the death sentence or a public …

"A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" Sunday May 17 at 1:30 PM EDT on EWTN (Television): Where did political correctness, gender conflict, gender confusion, Culture of Death come from? Chilling look at impact of Saul Alinsky Social Justice

The answer to these, and many other questions, can be found in the EWTN Documentary “A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing,” a chilling look at the impact of Community Activist Saul Alinsky, whose “Rules for Radicals” still wields a huge influence on American culture – and the world. You’ll have to tune in to find out what happened in that Chicago parish, but suffice it to say that Father Mitch Pacwa personally witnessed the execution of a former gang member – as a result of this demonization and stirri…

UK -Tommy Robinson Driven Into Exile by Arson Attack; Suspects BLM World News

I hope he comes to America. I hope Ayann Hirsi Ali also comes. He’s been outspoken about the Muslims but this not incident had nothing to to with that community. Tommy Robinson has been driven out of his British home and into forced exile by an arson attack which endangered his wife and children. In a subsequent Parler statement, Robinson expressed his disappointment at the way the attack and its aftermath had been reported in the mainstream media, which implied that he had invited the arso…

Europe is falling to Islam Will America? World News

“How about America? As Ronald Reagan once said, “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” Nowadays it might be more accurate to rephrase that to “never more than one election away.” If the Democrats should regain the presidency, and possibly the Senate, in next year’s election, we can expect a marked increase in Islamic influence over our government and our society.”

We can’t just continue living as if there was no tomorrow because there is a tomorrow World News

I’m afraid you are mistaken if you think that Hitler was a socialist. His party did have the phrase “National Socialist” in its name, but he wasn’t actually a socialist. He was absolutely a socialist. Socialism is government ownership or strict control of the means of production. Hitler permitted the allusion of private ownership, but it would be delusional to think he didn’t exercise total control.

Hey Democrats, Trump illegally trying to start a war is actually worthy of Impeachment World News

Well, it wasn’t really a civil war to start with. The south merely wanted to withdraw from the union and be left alone. There was no struggle over the control of government. You can’t assure me of something that is untrue. Lincoln formed an army of 75,000 and created a naval blockade, clearly an act of war, without the prior consent of congress. That was illegal per the Constitution. If the war was legal, it’s pretty clear that Jefferson Davis would have been tried for treason. Why was …

Nelson Mandela has died World News

Mandela was a real terrorist. He was a member the the ANC’s terrorist wing for years. He is responsible for the deaths of men, women and children through a bombing campaign that lasted for several years. He wasn’t removed from the terrorist list until 2008. I just don’t understand people’s thought processes here. Is it that easy to forget?

 

[vz71]

The church, and those faithful to God and his church, are always in the same place.

Modern society has moved.

 

[Mark121359]

“snowflakes”

Yep. I’m guilty of using that term on here. What term would you suggest that I use when describing twenty something college kids having meltdowns over Trump’s victory over HRC? I mean c’mon. Play-doh, coloring books, puppies, Legos, cry-in rooms for college aged kids??? Sheesh. The only thing missing was Goodyear being called in to install rubber rooms!

 

[jtt88]

Hi, I’ll share my thoughts as having been a conservative married to what one would think of as an “old school” liberal (ie she came from an old union family, but is very pro-life and even votes against pro-choice candidates based on that). Biggest is abortion that drives someone one way or the other politically in America. The reality is the Democratic party in the past 20-30 years in particular have gone all in on this. So much so today that there’s only a few congress people that are Democrats that say they are pro-life and maybe only a couple that are consistent on that. It’s become a thick line for that party, unfortunately, which for most serious Catholics is a critical problem.

Second has to do with economic focus and view of government. Democrats have over the decades become more socialist leaning, ala the Europe model like Sweden. Unfortunately, this also is also a real issue, because the Church has clearly taught many times that socialism is unacceptable. That doesn’t make free market possible for abuse, which is true of many economic systems, but socialism has been specifically called out as incompatible with Catholic thinking and the idea of subsidiarity.

A third problem that has come to a head in recent history is the gender agenda. Gay rights l, trans rights, redefining marriage and all that stuff. Democrats are all in on that politically. Republicans are a mixed bag, but not as clearly hostile to religious institutions like Catholic institutions, in this regard.

Final point, and I tell my wife this. I don’t view myself as Republican. Republicans are politicians and they are flawed and I have many quibbles with them, just not as many and not as egregiously. I emphasize to her I am Catholic and orient my intellectual and political thinking towards that. If a party was clearly wrong on critical issues (like what is human life) I’m not afraid to change. I’d actually be quite happy if the Democrats were better on some of these things, as I’d feel like there’d be more choices.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

You speak of the left as if they are static. Perhaps, many of the things you’ve stated have not remained what they once professed to be and people are discovering that and are not wanting to be associated with them.

Praise for Franco, Salazar, Pinochet.

Also, this is complete balderdash. It’s one of the most egregious examples from your post. I’ve read a lot of things on the Internet, but I’ve yet to see Catholics profess any admiration for Franco, Salazar, and Pinochet. I find you disingenuous.

 

[on_the_hill]

You speak of the left as if they are static. Perhaps, many of the things you’ve stated have not remained what they once professed to be and people are discovering that and are not wanting to be associated with them.

Praise for Franco, Salazar, Pinochet.

Back in the day, there were posts on CAF that supported the Franco regime because he was supposedly pro-Catholic Church.
Similarly, I’ve seen CAF posts that supported street violence against gay people, and posts that praised Putin as the savior of Christendom in Europe.

 

[Methodist]

Also, this is complete balderdash. It’s one of the most egregious examples from your post. I’ve read a lot of things on the Internet, but I’ve yet to see Catholics profess any admiration for Franco, Salazar, and Pinochet. I find you disingenuous.

St. Fransisco Franco? Spirituality

I wodner if the Holy See woudl ever consider canonizing Fransisco Franco? Though he gets much flack, he did help keep Spain from being taken over by godless socialists. He defended the Cahtolic faith and allowed it to flourish in splendour from 1939-1975. His rule also made possible the Opus Dei of St. JoseMaria Escriva. I know there were some questionable human rights stuff, but it was a “different time” as they say. Any thoughts?

Catholic Church in Spain fights Franco-era image Catholic News

Did the article mention the savage brutality delivered by the Republicans to the Church during the Spanish Civil War? Zapatero would have been a Spanish Republican’s dream. Spain has been infected with the same secularism that has infected the rest of Western Europe. It’s very easy to blame religion for all the world’s problems. The Enlightenment has held that as one of its core beliefs for centuries. Spain should remember its history from a little farther back say, the year 711. The Mus…

Catholic Church in Spain fights Franco-era image Catholic News

What was so nightmarish about Franco? He was a dictator, but he wasn’t a Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Pot, etc.

Fights as Spanish Civil War clergy are beatified Catholic News

I love how all the anti-Franco liberals are totally ignoring the fact that the communistic “Popular Front” government won through fraud and intimidation and butchered tens of thousands of innocent Spaniards (known as the “Red Terror of Spain”) Franco was a model leader, along with Portugal’s Antonio Salazar. If Franco were still ruling Spain the country would be in much better shape. [image] President Eisenhower warmly embraces Franco If Presiden…

Traditional Discernment? Traditional Catholicism

I agree in your praise of Franco. I do not understand your dislike in “reactionary politics” whatever that means. The only reason I mentioned illegal immigration is because I see the priesthood primarily as administering the sacraments, not promoting a twisted view of “social justice.” Yes I am Roman Catholic, but I am also an American. The two do not contradict unless the laws of America start to go against Natural Law- ex. Roe v. Wade. In regard to immigration, the reason why our Lord was bor…

Salazar: Catholic Statesman or Fascist Despot? Traditional Catholicism

He’s to be emulated, though I think that Franco was better.

St. Antonio Salazar? Spirituality

Lol this is kind of a joke, but he seems a kinder and gentler sort than Fransisco Franco. He promoted Church, stopped Communism etc, ( though not illiteracy hmmm:blush but perhaps no different from any other devout Catholic

BLM Supporter Kneels on Neck of White Child World News

Yeah Pinochet was more CIA puppet/free market capitalist stooge than Catholic autocrat. I like him more than say Castro but less than Salazar.

Sistine Chapel homoerotic? Catholic Living

No offense, but I cannot, as a Catholic, imagine what it would be like to live in one of the Nordic countries, Benelux, the UK, France, the Czech Republic, or the northern/eastern parts of Germany. I think I would love Poland or Malta. I believe that even Spain and Italy are now very liberal. I don’t know about Portugal, but it sounds better, and I always admired Salazar. I know that many of the Eastern Orthodox countries are quite conservative, but I don’t know how good it is being a Catholic i…

 

[RhodesianSon]

but I’ve yet to see Catholics profess any admiration for Franco, Salazar, and Pinochet

I praised them a few posts up. They were decent men, and it shouldn’t be controversial to praise them.

 

[humbleseeker]

Someone joined a day ago but has researched 15 years worth of threads, most over 100 posts, on various topics, to pull out snippets to support their limited claims? Something smells here…

 

[BartholomewB]

I was taking it to be a representative sample of Catholicism in the English-speaking world. There are posters on here who are moderate and even left-wing and liberal, but they are heavily outnumbered by posters who are right-wing, often very right-wing. Furthermore, when I have come across more moderate posters, I have often found that the person is actually an atheist, agnostic, non-religious, lapsed Catholic, Protestant, or Jew.

You write as though you have conducted a careful statistical survey of posts on all the forums and subforums here at CAF. I frankly don’t believe you have even attempted such a thing.

In your superficial flipping through a few threads here and there, you failed to notice the real weakness of nearly all political discussions here at CAF. It’s the shallowness of mindless repetition of empty slogans, which all too often boil down to nothing more than one side yelling “Trump good, Biden bad,” and the other side yelling back, “Biden good, Trump bad.” They’re both as empty-headed as each other.

 

[Petra202]

Thank you for a great reply! I agree with what you said especially that “Catholic” is a religion and not a political party.

 

[Petra202]

I think you are making false projections!

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

Disingenuous. A scant handful of people posted something on the Internet so it becomes all Catholics becoming far-right extremists somehow to you? Hm.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

None of which is remotely representative of even most Catholics, and you know it.

 

[Methodist]

omeone joined a day ago but has researched 15 years worth of threads, most over 100 posts, on various topics, to pull out snippets to support their limited claims? Something smells here…

Not really. Didn’t I already say I have been browsing here for some time? You don’t need an account to browse. With rudimentary knowledge of how to use a search engine, it’s not difficult to find 15 years’ worth of posts on relevant topics.

What you are calling a “shift to the right” might more properly be called a “shift back to the right.”

I think this is an excellent point. Thank you. I am in my early 50s, so my awareness of the Catholic Church dates to the mid 1970s. My impressions of the Catholic Church are things like seeing posters of Hélder Câmara with the quotation, “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist”; priests and (more often) religious being arrested for chaining themselves to the perimeter fences of naval and air force bases; letter-writing campaigns for death row prisoners; campaigning for Jubilee 2000; the little shop at the back of the church selling those brightly coloured, hand-painted crosses from El Salvador and fairly traded tea, coffee, chocolate, and artisanal products, and lobbying churches, schools, universities, etc to adopt fair trade policies; Lord Longford campaigning for the release of Myra Hindley (which, at the time, I agreed with, as I was convinced, rightly or wrongly, that she had shown true repentance).

However, you are no doubt correct that there was a very different kind of Catholicism, especially prior to Vatican 2, which was very conservative and more aligned with right-wing political ideologies. I mean, I think I belong to the first generation of Catholics not to have been beaten with a whalebone at school (and only because I was fortunate to attend a relatively progressive Catholic school - many Catholic schools in Britain were beating children with whalebones and other implements until well into the 80s). In the 1940s, Archbishop McQuaid of Dublin had been warning the minister of public health about the moral risks of tampons. Senator McCarthy was leading the anti-communist witch-hunt and the Lavender Scare moral panic during the 1950s. So, yes, I guess that you would be right to think that this is more of a return to an earlier iteration of Catholicism.

The left especially in recent years has become militantly anti Christian especially against Catholicism. Not to mention it is captivated by the atheistic Philosophy of Marxism …

A perfect example of what I am talking about. Where I am from, the UK, our main left-wing party, the Labour Party, is not, and never has been, militantly anti-Christian, anti-Catholic, or atheistic, nor, even, particularly Marxist. Actually, there has always been a very close relationship between the Labour Party and Methodism.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I find myself at home in neither US political party.

I am probably closer to Republican than I am Democrat (indeed, if I ever run for office, it would be as a Republican), but I largely feel the same way.
Having said that, I am glad that the GOP has become less hawkish since George W.

 

[on_the_hill]

Stop ruining my fun

 

[JimG]

Well, Bishop Fulton Sheen used to preach regularly against Communism and Socialism back in the 1950’s and had one of the most popular TV shows. Most Catholics were Democrats, but back then Democrats did not favor abortion, same sex marriage, transgenderism, adultery, or fornication, and destruction of traditional families.

 

[Paddy1989]

The left especially in recent years has become militantly anti Christian especially against Catholicism. Not to mention it is captivated by the atheistic Philosophy of Marxism creating division among groups of people with identity politics so it is no wonder that you’ll be hard pressed to find a Christian on the left today. It is essentially atheistic