When did Catholics shift this far towards the right/conservatism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Methodist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I mean, I think I belong to the first generation of Catholics not to have been beaten with a whalebone at school
Oh my goodness. I attended a Catholic school in the 1950’s taught by nuns wearing full habits and living in the convent next door. And no student was ever beaten with a whalebone or anything else.
The nuns were not mean, and they did not guide us either right or left politically. What they did do was teach the Catholic Faith in its entirety, without qualms, without equivocation, without dissent, a Faith which I retain to this day.
 
especially against Catholicism.
Could it be because it is one of a few religions whose leader lives outside of the US? I guess the same can be said of the Church of England.

Evangelicals OTOH …
 
Last edited:
I think you are probably from the United States? You have to remember that the British were an almost uniquely barbaric race (rivalled only by Australians, Canadians, South Africans, and of course the Crown dependency of the Isle of Man).

Until the 1960s, boys at Eton College were birched on their bare buttocks in public. Eton was unusual only in continuing to use the birch until the later 20th century. At Harrow School, birching was so famous that the school preserves a birch and a birching block to display to visitors. At Eton and virtually all public schools, it was also tradition that corporal punishment was inflicted not only by teachers but also by older pupils (in some schools, a majority of beatings were carried out by senior pupils). This practice was so widespread that Douglas Hurd, for example, Britain’s sometime home secretary and foreign secretary, was renowned for the sadistic beatings he had administered as a schoolboy. The King’s School, Canterbury, an Anglican establishment attached to Canterbury Cathedral, used to have a tradition known as a “school beating”, in which the victim was summoned to the school library and all the school prefects took turns to beat him with a cane. A “school beating” was such an ordeal that it was the only corporal punishment at the school to be administered on the clothed, rather than bare, buttocks.

Even at schools that did not use the birch, caning was common, both for misbehaviour and poor academic work. The headmaster of one public school once infamously caned the entire rugby team for losing a game. Note that a caning at such a school meant multiple strokes on the bare buttocks. Although most schools abandoned caning in the 1980s, it remained legal in private schools until 1999. For example, the St James boys’ school in Surrey was still caning boys until 1996 (some claim even later). The last school to cane girls was reportedly Rodney School in the mid 1990s. State schools were still using corporal punishment when it was banned in 1986, except in London, where it had been banned by the local authority in 1979 - some smaller local authorities may also have imposed voluntary bans around the same time. As recently as 1981, the British children’s TV show Grange Hill showed a girl being caned by the headmistress, something which was not remotely implausible at the time.

In 2017, a scandal came to light involving John Smyth, a senior British barrister. It was revealed that in the 1970s and 80s he had been involved with an Anglican charity called the Iwerne Trust, which organised camps for boys from public schools. During these camps, and on other occasions, Smyth had beaten boys until they bled. He got away with it because, although the severity of his beatings was extreme, it was not wholly different to the kinds of beatings that were standard in public schools.

Apologies for a rambling reply. My point is that severe physical beatings were the standard method of discipline in many/most British schools until the 1970s and even later. Whalebones seem to have been a peculiarity of Catholic schools, but this probably wasn’t any more barbaric than the beatings given in Anglican schools.
 
OP, just because a few people with extreme views posted those views on this forum, that no more means it is representative of Catholicism or Catholics at large than if there’s a white supremacist or antifa member sitting in the pews at your local Mass.
We get a lot of trolls here, too.
Also, not all the examples of posts you quoted were at all extreme views - one was someone simply arguing that Hitler wasn’t a socialist, amongst others.
I don’t know that trawling through internet forums for opinions you find distasteful is that healthy a pursuit. Most true, practicing, faithful Catholics are good people with fairly normal views.
 
Last edited:
Also, not all the examples of posts you quoted were at all extreme views - one was someone simply arguing that Hitler wasn’t a socialist, amongst others.
Apologies if I was ambiguous: the post which I found strange was the one which claimed that Hitler was a socialist. There is a revisionist school among US conservatives over recent years which tries to argue that the Nazis are an example of left-wing extremism.
CAF is atypical of U.S. Catholics. Really.
Well, that is reassuring to know. I really despaired when I read a post that referred to female undocumented migrants from Latin America having “anchor babies”. I remember when the Catholic Church instigated a movement called Strangers Into Citizens, which, as the name suggests, was concerned with obtaining not just an amnesty, but citizenship, for illegal immigrants into the UK. And then not two decades later I am reading about “anchor babies” on a Catholic forum, not to mention an entire thread about the alleged criminality of undocumented migrants.

Somewhere, I can’t find it now, but somewhere, I saw somebody arguing that his own mother shouldn’t be allowed to vote because she was an immigrant even though she was a naturalised US citizen. His argument was that only natural born citizens should be allowed to vote. I have seen quite a lot of strange posts about voting rights, e.g. that women should no longer be allowed to vote (seriously), that the voting age should be raised to 21 or even higher, that there should be a threshold either for property ownership or federal income tax receipts, and that voters should have to pass a literacy test or have a certain standard of education.

I do apologise for any offence caused to anybody. It certainly was not my intention. It is reassuring not only to know that CAF is not typical of present-day Catholics, but also that I am not wholly mistaken in thinking that this site does attract a disproportionate number of people who come here to post Trump propaganda, conspiracy theories, moral panics, and various right-wing, conservative opinions that are far outside the range of normal viewpoints. I mean, like this:
48.png
Is there a race problem in America? Social Justice
There’s racism in this country. But it doesn’t necessarily require violence. My husband for instance, would never hire a certain race of people to work for him. Not ever. And they aren’t black. My husband is as harmless as a kitten, but he just can’t work with them. And it’s for the best that they don’t get hired.
The really shocking thing is that seemingly nobody had a problem with this blatantly racist post. There are certainly no replies telling her how wrong she is.
 
Truth be told, individual Catholics can say all sorts of things.

This doesn’t mean that they are reflecting what the Church teaches.

I’ve seen a lot of outrageous posts from Catholic posters here which are outright racist. Doesn’t mean the Church approves of racism.

Those that say bigoted hateful things are saying this in spite of not because of the Church.
 
From what I am seeing on CAF, I am wondering whether the Catholic Church is now something like “the John Birch Society at prayer”.
Especially if you dig into the prevalent thinking at your typical Traditional Latin Mass venue, this absolutely nails it!

In larger diocesan Latin Mass parishes, you might have a bit more diversity, but yes, it skews archconservative. I have to keep my mouth shut about liberal and progressive policies that I embrace — Medicare for All, free meals for everyone at all public schools, free tuition at least at all public colleges, and even some form of reparations for systemically and historically dispossessed groups. And though it’s not an issue for me (because I am staying away from Mass until there’s a vaccine), I would be right in the forefront on mask ordinances, banning of large gatherings, and when it comes out, vaccination for COVID. I supported Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primaries (solely because he wasn’t Hillary!) and I really had to keep that to myself!

My generally conservative (read Republican) voting tendencies are almost 100% informed by the abortion issue. If everyone were pro-life and abortion weren’t a political issue, I’d definitely skew liberal.

And as for SSPX and, a fortiori, sedevacantist venues, well, the farther “right” you get, the thicker the politics get. (As for SVs, Catholics faithful to the Pope and to the magisterium shouldn’t be assisting at non-una cum Masses anyway.)
 
Last edited:
In the past few years, the denizens of online communities like 4chan, 8chan have invaded this forum. Most of them are angry with an axe to grind.
 
The really shocking thing is that seemingly nobody had a problem with this blatantly racist post. There are certainly no replies telling her how wrong she is.
I’m guessing this poster is Ruth Anne?

She’s aired her anarchy, nobody tells me what to do, views several times. I think she’s one of those survivalist people that distrusts government, public education and immunizations.

I think she’s been banned.

I’ve been told by another poster, that since I wasn’t white, I was incapable of behaving morally. The poster has since been banned.

I’ve had death threats PM’d to me also.

Poster has been banned as well.

All sorts of scary characters. Part of life online I guess.
 
Last edited:
I think she’s been banned.
Correct.

The really shocking thing is that seemingly nobody had a problem with this blatantly racist post. There are certainly no replies telling her how wrong she is.
Because they were all engrossed in the multiple different arguments occurring in that thread. But somehow, one post where people don’t denounce her makes the forum racist despite numerous other occurrences of racist remarks occurring on this forum being denounced. You have looked at the numerous threads here denouncing racism, right?
 
Last edited:
RuthAnne was pure troll. Like the platonic ideal of a troll.
 
48.png
MNathaniel:
Why on earth would you (clearly an adult) think that a tiny number of online strangers (only around 70 users regularly check in each day here) on a niche website are an accurate sample to draw any kind of conclusion about what a “significant portion”, much less a “majority”, of a religion of 1.2 billion people thinks?
It is the largest lay apostolate on the internet and the largest online community of Catholics in the world.
And that is why it’s a crying shame the community is being dissolved at the end of 2020.
I was therefore taking this to be a representative sample of Catholicism within the anglophone world.
Except that it’s not.

It is a “representative sample” of those who are deeply committed enough to the Faith, to spend time in front of a keyboard asking questions and taking a stab at amateur armchair apologetics. The vast majority of Catholics do neither.
Being such a minority in the US, many Protestant ideas have seeped in to Catholic sentiments, particularly of those who don’t know better.
Truer words were never spake.
 
Well, I think that of the far left and of the far right, The far right is definitely the lesser of the two evils and perhaps that is one of the reasons Catholics have “Shifted” towards the far right. I mean, the extreme left Catholics condone abortion, the seizing of other peoples property to give to folks who did not earn it, support BLM when YES one of the leaders of the movement has stated that she and other leaders are trained Marxists and Marxism is in direct opposition to The Church. They accuse everyone of racism yet give minorities a pass to be racist to whites (I am mexican american and I can tell you that the only racist comments I have seen on my social media is from liberals against whites) They will gladly condemn the police for shooting a black man but black on black violence is a topic that will not be addressed by the far left media. Yes, black men are far more likely to be killed by the hands of another black man then the police. I am probably a “racist” in their eyes just for stating that fact. Yet, I would get more of a pass for saying it then a white person because I am a minority. That is hypocrisy.

I am against abortion. I am pro labor. I am all for allowing people who were brought here illegally as infants a path to citizenship but I do not believe just everyone has a right to be here just because they want to be here and I think open borders would be crazy. Lots of people are closer to the middle than you seem to think.

I would say this “shift” is definitely because of the two extremes, the far left is by far the more despicable of the two.

And calling someone a “snowflake” is a much nicer insult then the standard “If you do not agree with me, you are a racist” insult of the far left extremeists.
 
Last edited:
Every Pope in memory has been a heavy critic of abortion. I believe Pope Paul even wrote about it in an encyclical.
I’m guessing this poster is Ruth Anne?

She’s aired her anarchy, nobody tells me what to do, views several times. I think she’s one of those survivalist people that distrusts government, public education and immunizations.

I think she’s been banned.

I’ve been told by another poster, that since I wasn’t white, I was incapable of behaving morally. The poster has since been banned.

I’ve had death threats PM’d to me also.

Poster has been banned as well.

All sorts of scary characters. Part of life online I guess.
I believe the poster even said they would not vote for Trump or Biden at that.

“Death threats” in this forum or another? Wow. I am so sorry to hear such.

I spend time on twitter, I follow a few people, I figure sometimes, they must really get it, maybe not the heavy duty threats but very vulgar language, things like that. Some of these people too who run twitter accounts I’m convinced though, they get paid for it. It’s kind of a job.

Anyway, fortunately, I have never experienced things like this.

Well said.

Not breaking it down into Conservative or Liberal, some have liked the Church clinging onto tradition.

That means, feed the poor and so on.

Yes, during Communism (think Fatima), the Church apparently had a strong response to Communism. Thus, Thatcher and so on.

I do note I believe I saw English spelling from the one poster, “apologise” for example I think I saw. This reflects being from other than the US.
 
Last edited:
On a public internet forum you get all kinds of viewpoints. Some are so outrageous that they get banned. But overall CAF seems to be pretty liberal in allowing a wide range of freedom of speech. Personally I don’t see a need to respond or argue against every outrageous post just because it’s there. Some posts should just be ignored.
 
Faithful practicing Catholics have not shifted towards the right. Society keeps shifting leftward. Church teaching hasn’t changed despite the best efforts of some to do so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top