When did Catholics shift this far towards the right/conservatism?

[Rozellelily]

“Woke”, “wokeness”, “wokedom” used as pejoratives; attacks on liberals, progressives, “social justice warriors”, “snowflakes”, “virtue signalling”.

On “wokeness”. It probably shouldn’t be used as a pejorative, but I do see “wokeness” ideology causing many issues and divisions in society.
For example, if we look at racism and race related issues (and I will use the example of black people in USA, but really any example could be used.)

The Christian way of dealing with racism and “close the gap” between white and black people in the USA would be to:

• condemn abuse based on race,
• support black run businesses,
• support programmes such as reducing over-representation of blacks in the prison system,
• financially support programmes that help black people to start their own business, gain well-paid employment, or get higher education
• help black people -particularly men- to have exposure to excellent black role models
• help any issues of absent fathers among black communities

The “woke” way would be to:

• Claim that the colonization of the western world has created every one else problems
• claim that non-blacks should not “culturally appropriate” and should not wear hair braids, wear sombreros, or bindi’s, etc
• Claim that any women that tan their skin too dark using fake tan are trying to be black and harming black people
• Believe that black people should be given acting roles of white historical figures such as the queen of England (just bizarre imo)
• My way or the highway mentality
• “If you don’t agree, I will shout you down” behaviour

Can you see the difference and how this “wokeness” is actually divisive to societies? All they do is cause people to be further from each other instead of harmony.
They are well-meaning but their methods are damaging.

Catholics probably wouldn’t care so much, if it wasn’t that this ideology and promoters have become so powerful in our western societies.

And the ironic thing, is that sometimes it is not even people from those cultures who are complaining. E.g., Indians (south Asian ones) often see it as flattering when people want to learn their culture and wear a Sari etc, but it is the “woke” usually Americans (sorry to Americans) that take issue with it!

There’s a saying "he who shouts the loudest has the least to say", but it seems these days he who shouts the loudest has the most power in society, gets policies made based off those shoutings, gets to run the social narrative, influences the people with more gentle natures into believing their ideologies who agree just so to keep the peace, etc…

Also, on the media, sadly the media often does give biased reporting these days. I actually think the media may be better in the USA than where I live (In Australia) because in the USA there are comparitively many different media organizations, but in Australia we have like 3 or 4. There is a real monopoly here.

 

[BT3241]

American Catholics because of polarization in their country and politics it doesn’t effect the rest of us I see no change where I live.

 

[TMC]

I am seeing on CAF a dramatic shift to the right:

The key point in this sentence is “on CAF.” In real life, Catholics tend to be politically moderate, or even a bit to the left (at least in my experience.) The Church as an institution is hard to pin down in American political terms, being to the right on some issues like abortion and gay rights, but to the left on other issues, such as social justice, economic issues, and so forth.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I was Catholic in the 70s-90s, most Catholics supported Labour, Amnesty International, Howard League for Penal Reform, CND, regulation of the arms trade, fair trade, Third World debt cancellation, citizenship for illegal immigrants, anti-apartheid. Politically, similar to Anglo-Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Quakers, Salvation Army.

There’s still a lot of moderate-to-left Catholics, just not on this particular forum, or on many other Internet forums.

I am seeing on CAF a dramatic shift to the right:

Many US Christians in general, including Catholics, began to swing to the right after Roe v. Wade and during the Reagan Administration.

A giant focus of US Catholicism during the Cold War years was to vanquish Communism. Reagan is credited with helping do that. The Republican Party also became the party that endorsed pro-life, and for many Catholics, ending abortion is THE most important issue. Also, it’s not like there was a lack of Republican/ right-wing Catholics during the years prior to Roe either; I’d say the parish I grew up in was pretty evenly split between the two US parties.

Like I said, there are still left-leaning Catholics, but the right-leaning Catholics tend to dominate Internet forums because the media does not support their view and they are always seeking communications outlets. Traditional Catholics also gravitate towards the Internet and they tend to be right-wing too. If you want to find left-leaning Catholics, go visit the America Magazine Facebook page, or go to a Father Martin book signing. They’re all there.

Or, you could just visit different parishes and see which ones are more Republican, which are Democrat, and which are split down the middle.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Then I left.

No, you got it wrong, Amnesty International went left!

 

[Methodist]

My generally conservative (read Republican) voting tendencies are almost 100% informed by the abortion issue.

It sounds like you have a lot of very sensible views which are exactly the kind of thing British Catholics would have been arguing for 20+ years ago. I also can entirely understand voting Republican if you think it stands a chance of saving the lives of the unborn.

(In the UK, there is no point voting for a party to save the lives of the unborn, because they are all more or less equally pro-choice and the individual politicians vote with their conscience, not along party lines. Anyway, the issue virtually never comes up. There was that vote on abortion in Northern Ireland, but that was totally unexpected and somewhat irregular, as abortion is supposed to be a devolved issue. It only got voted on in the British Parliament because the Northern Ireland Assembly was at the time dormant due to a completely unrelated issue (mostly to do with a fraudulent sustainable energy scheme if I understand correctly). Nobody could possibly have voted on the issue, because it was a totally unexpected vote on a bill that conflated abortion and same-sex marriage with some really important measures to do with the powers of the Secretary of State and restoring devolved government.)

So, what baffles me is not people voting Republican for a good reason, but people making the massive leap from being pro-life to embracing hook, line, and sinker the policies and cultural values of the populist, nativist far right. I mean, the number of people on here trying to argue that the way Trump talks about women is somehow moral! Fine, just say, “The way Trump talks about women is sickening, but I have to vote for that creep because there is a chance he will save the lives of the unborn.” But I’ve read everything from (and I am only slightly paraphrasing) “it’s just locker-room banter” to “boys like to boast” to “they weren’t women, just groupies”.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The really shocking thing is that seemingly nobody had a problem with this blatantly racist post. There are certainly no replies telling her how wrong she is.

That poster is banned.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

So, what baffles me is not people voting Republican for a good reason, but people making the massive leap from being pro-life to embracing hook, line, and sinker the policies and cultural values of the populist, nativist far right.

But it’s not happening to the extent you’ve probably been told.

The US has a significant, but still minority Evangelical voting bloc, and hey tend to be the folks for whom religion and politics are very intertwined (and there are historical reasons for this—that the two movements grew up side by side here).

But outside of them, nobody is buying “hook line and sinker” in the way you seem to picture it.

And even talking to RL Evangelicals, the picture is not quite so stereotypical as the media would have you believing.

 

[Genesis315]

In the USA, the left/right distinction is evolving with its relation to Catholicism. Most Catholics of earlier generations seemed to be Democrats in the USA. At that time they seemed mostly consistent with Catholic social teaching, supporting the working class laborers, actual racial equality, etc. As others have mentioned, abortion drove many Catholics to the Republicans as well as other things directly and obviously opposed to the natural law being pushed in more recent years. But the Dems have been moving farther and farther away on the other issues now too. Trump at the very least shook things up and the parties seem to be realigning a bit, with Dems now the party favored by the big corporations, the tech oligarchs, the corporate media, the foreverwar types, and the general neo-liberal capitalist global imperium (Biden’s coalescing administration is making this even more obvious), whereas the Republicans are becoming more working class oriented, with a small movement within their tent advocating more of a common good approach gaining steam.

There’s a reason the Dems lost the Catholic vote worse than in decades this time around, despite the Dems having a Catholic candidate.

I hope the Republicans can continue moving toward an economic approach closer to Catholic social teaching which places the family, working class/labor, and the common good of both local communities and the whole at the center and end of economic activity–that combined with more conservative social positions (also favoring the family), I think could be a real winner–we’ll see if the realignment can continue in the right direction.

 

[phil19034]

Wow, there are so many misconceptions here, I don’t know where to start.

Some of the groups you reference here (like Amnesty International) used to be supported by devout Catholics until Amnesty International decided that abortion was a human right.

Amnesty International releases updated policy on abortion - Amnesty International

This is the case for many other groups too.

In regards to “fears about leftism, socialism, communism, Marxism…” the Catholic Church has officially taught that all socialism, communism and Marxism are immortal and against Catholic Church ever since the Pope Leo XIII.

As far as a lot of the other stuff you post, this differs per person. Most Catholics are totally in favor of LEGAL immigration & have few issues with granting amnesty & citizenship to illegal immigrants (assuming that immigration policies can reduce illegal immigration)

Also, in regards to universal healthcare, Catholics don’t have issue with universal healthcare (in of itself) but rather what universal healthcare means. Will it be handled locally & in accordance with Catholic teachings, or will it be handled nationally and lead to “death panels”?

In regards to praise for Franco, Putin, etc: this is a very TINY, yet vocal minority. This does NOT reflect a large % of Catholics.

The problem that many devout Catholics have is that it becomes hard to trust leaders who don’t understand why abortion is evil. And it’s even harder to trust them when they believe abortion is a human right & when they question whether devout Catholics & members of the Knights of Columbus should be allowed to be federal judges.

 

[phil19034]

Fine, just say, “The way Trump talks about women is sickening, but I have to vote for that creep because there is a chance he will save the lives of the unborn.”

This is actually what the vast majority of Catholics who voted for Trump, whom I know, actually say.

Myself included. I never thought Trump was a good candidate, but I do approve of MOST (not all) of his policies. However, I don’t approve of his rhetoric.

He can be very crude, but in general, most (not all) of his policies were good.

Most Catholic Republicans understand that Trump was a very flawed candidate, and I don’t know any who voted for him during the primaries. But he was better than Hillary, and a lot felt he was still better than Biden.

 

[Maximian]

It seems like they’re so used to surrounding themselves with only people who think exactly the same way they do, that the mere presence of a different opinion horrifies and alarms them,

Hence that disbelief when Trump won last time. They told everyone else to shut up for years, so everyone did so. They thought that meant everyone else had gone away; so the left got a nasty surprise.

 

[phil19034]

I hope the Republicans can continue moving toward an economic approach closer to Catholic social teaching which places the family, working class/labor, and the common good of both local communities and the whole at the center and end of economic activity–that combined with more conservative social positions (also favoring the family), I think could be a real winner–we’ll see if the realignment can continue in the right direction.

I think this will continue. If the Republican Party can continue to become the party of the working class, while staying pro-life, it should make the Republican Party very in line with Catholic teachings.

 

[Kima]

Well the political America has become quite polarized and there´s truly nothing in between honestly. Either you have to go with democrats and their restrictions to personal freedom, self defense and thus also support many more abortions. Or you go with the republicans and have more personal autonomy and protect the lives of the unborn from further evil and harm. But truly it all falls down to the question related to abortion. It´s the most important question to ask yourself when passing a vote.

So if you care about Catholic social justice you should protect the unborn and thus vote pro-life which in this case Republican regardless of other political views. This is one of the most important choices for any Catholic when putting in a vote. This is the reason why many practicing Catholics are Republican or “far right” by your terms.

 

[ProVobis]

If the Republican Party can continue to become the party of the working class, while staying pro-life, it should make the Republican Party very in line with Catholic teachings.

The pendulum swings in many ways it seems. Looking at the popular swing only, it favored the Democrats by 2% in 2016, by 8% in 2018, and 4% in 2020. It remains anyone’s guess as to where it will go in 2022. The voter can’t seem to find a permanent equilibrium.

 

[TexMexBeliever]

Methodist,

I’m new to CAF and am Mexican American and Catholic by choice. I would agree with you the views and opinions of the majority of posts here do not sound like the Catholic Church I know. As someone commented, there are less than 100 regular CAF posters which hardly represents the views of the Catholic Church in general. The Catholic Church I know is open, loving, understanding and welcoming to all and it will always be my home.

God Bless and Merry Christmas,
Pablo

 

[redcatholic]

What an interesting observation. I think that the American church has moved to the right since then but is currently moving back to the left. It’s hard to compare because media is different as is the appearance of forums like these. Even ewtn is a gamechanger. As for the Church as a whole, top down it was more conservative under JPII than Francis from a political and economical standpoint. Regan and the pope worked in tandem to defeat leftists and communists.
However this site and apostolate has gotten more leftist if you ask me.

 

[Mark121359]

RuthAnne was pure troll. Like the platonic ideal of a troll.

I don’t think she was a troll. If she was, she was a very popular one. She received almost two thousand likes in just a year and a half!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

My generally conservative (read Republican) voting tendencies are almost 100% informed by the abortion issue.

It sounds like you have a lot of very sensible views which are exactly the kind of thing British Catholics would have been arguing for 20+ years ago. I also can entirely understand voting Republican if you think it stands a chance of saving the lives of the unborn.

Fine, just say, “The way Trump talks about women is sickening, but I have to vote for that creep because there is a chance he will save the lives of the unborn.”

That’s precisely the kind of thing I “sucked up” when I marked my ballot for Trump.

But I’ve read everything from (and I am only slightly paraphrasing) “it’s just locker-room banter” to “boys like to boast”

I’ve heard far worse in business offices during my working years.

And sometimes women joined in the banter as well. They gave as good as they got. I could not even begin to repeat some of that talk.

If the Republican Party can continue to become the party of the working class, while staying pro-life, it should make the Republican Party very in line with Catholic teachings.

I hope the GOP will re-imagine itself as the party of the working class. From all indications, that is precisely what they are doing.

Well the political America has become quite polarized and there´s truly nothing in between honestly. Either you have to go with democrats and their restrictions to personal freedom, self defense and thus also support many more abortions. Or you go with the republicans and have more personal autonomy and protect the lives of the unborn from further evil and harm. But truly it all falls down to the question related to abortion. It´s the most important question to ask yourself when passing a vote.

So if you care about Catholic social justice you should protect the unborn and thus vote pro-life which in this case Republican regardless of other political views. This is one of the most important choices for any Catholic when putting in a vote. This is the reason why many practicing Catholics are Republican or “far right” by your terms.

See above. That is indeed why.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I don’t think she was a troll. If she was, she was a very popular one. She received almost two thousand likes in just a year and a half!

Those are rookie numbers.