P
Phemie
Guest
Most pastors probably wouldn’t consider celebrating a marriage at the anticipated Sunday Mass unless the couple were very involved with the Church and were capable of making Sunday the focus, not themselves.
- Status
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
Actually, a priest does not “charge” for any sacrament. He is offered a “stipend” which covers his work. Think honorarium.
And again, you have not considered that the church (the building, not the People of God) needs heat or air, along with cleaning and all that stuff.
W
wanner47
Guest
Ditto.
Also, this bears repeating:
Off-topic –
Sarabende, I’m sorry that your fiance feels that way about the Church scandal. Does he expect to find a Protestant church *without *scandal? If he does, let me know – I haven’t found one yet (see here and here, for example)
S
Sarabande
Guest
Hi! I think you might be thinking Sacredcello? I’ve been married for a while now - 5 years this August.
Sarabande
S
Sarabande
Guest
Quite right. And as someone else mentioned, many brides want the all the “bells and whistles”. They want to choose the readings, music, petitions, etc. Whereas if they have it during a regular mass, I would assume that it would be like how they do it for a Baptism. And I think it’s safe to say that many brides wouldn’t want that, even if it was offered and if it meant that they would save a few hundreds of dollars.
T
TLara
Guest
just my thoughts.
my wife and I were married at our parish and the only fee we paid was a small donation for the priest. I think if you really investigate further you will find that the people paying high fees are not members of the parish they are getting married in but rather drive around until they find the church for their dream wedding. At our parish we have people inquire all the time about getting married at our church that are not members and most are not even catholic. In the past two years I’ve been to many catholic weddings and not a single time did the couple pay a fee for use of the church, but they were all parishioners of the church they got married in.
my wife and I were married at our parish and the only fee we paid was a small donation for the priest. I think if you really investigate further you will find that the people paying high fees are not members of the parish they are getting married in but rather drive around until they find the church for their dream wedding. At our parish we have people inquire all the time about getting married at our church that are not members and most are not even catholic. In the past two years I’ve been to many catholic weddings and not a single time did the couple pay a fee for use of the church, but they were all parishioners of the church they got married in.
T
turtle18
Guest
Your kidding right? This isn’t a new practice, this has been going on for years. These aren’t considered “bells and whistles.” And for years it cost money to heat and clean the church. Most churches I know have the electricity and HVAC on whether you are there or not.
The only difference I see between now and then is that large sums of money are being paid out by the Church to settle lawsuits. In my opinion, they are taking advantage of “bridezilla” by charging her for the wedding, instead of using the opportunity to evangelize her.
G
Guitar
Guest
Turtle, that argument has been dealt with on this thread by a number of us who are quite well acquainted with the process of dealing with wedding couples of all stripes, the good, the bad and all shades in between.
It has been explained to you more than once that the opportunity to “evangelise”, as you put it, is taken advantage of and you have been told by many of us that in most cases this falls on completely deaf ears.
Let me say it one more time - Bridezilla/Groomzilla does not listen. The fact that they continue to be Couplezilla, in all cases in my 20+ years of working experience, is down to them. It is not because no one took the time or effort to help them understand. Many of us musicians and parish office staff, and certainly many priests of my acquaintance, spend much time, effort and stomach acid we can ill afford in the mostly fruitless attempt to “evangelise” such people. We should for reasons of Christian charity/kindness/outreach/[insert other appropriate term here]. Failing that, we might do it to save the Mass and the church we love from disrespectful treatment. Even failing that, a couple that follows the rules quietly just makes our own work so much easier. It would make no sense for us to not bother with “evangelisation”.
Bridezilla chooses to remain so - I have never come across a case where she got to the wedding in that state because nobody tried to evangelise her.
It has also been explained to you ad nauseam that many of these charges have nothing to do with Bridezilla - things cost time and money, endov. The electricity company does not care about the bride’s attitude when it draws up the bill. It has also been repeated over and over that she is not being charged for “the wedding”.
And now, after 10 pages of discussion, you’ve restated the position you took on about page 3, that has been refuted several times since.
At this point it seems that, like Bridezilla, you are not listening. I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s kinda what it looks like.
S
Sepharad
Guest
ALL religions charge something for their time and use of their facilities. Its usually on a donation basis (not sure of the RCC though)
T
Tsuwano
Guest
I wonder how much Jesus charged to change the water into wine?
W
wanner47
Guest
Ooops! My mistake. Sorry.
S
Sarabande
Guest
I wasn’t putting down the “bells and whistles” at all. All I was saying that most brides and grooms would rather do that, than to have the sacrament done during a regular Sunday or Saturday Vigil mass than save the money. There is nothing wrong doing it either way.
You seem to ignore all of the other posts saying the costs to take care of the churches have gone up so much while the amount of money coming in during collections and such have gone down. Also the costs to pay lay people working in the churches which clergy and religious used to do when there are more of them around is something to consider. But you seem to ignore all that others have mentioned. Do you even work in a parish and know the ins/outs of all of this? Many who have responded have worked in at least one church if not more. They have a better idea of what’s going on. It’s not about taking advantages of the “bridezilla/groomzilla”.
Even prior to the law suits there have been charges for the use of the churches. My childhood parish, which was a normal suburban parish had it. 7 years ago it was $650. It was $650 even before the sex abuse scandal. And as I mentioned before my current parish had charge since the 80s, at least - LONG before the law suits. So that can’t be blamed. Perhaps some dioceses have had problems and may be part of the it today, but it is nothing new.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
If you want to receive the Sacrament of Matrimony for free, the Church will accommodate you. All that is needed is a priest (or an ordained Deacon) and two witnesses. Period.
[You usually have to interview with the priest (or Deacon) so that they can arrange for you to receive pre-marital counseling and so that they can make sure there are no impediments to the Sacrament of Marriage (previous still-valid marriages; blood relationships, etc.]
[And if you want the marriage to be recognized civilly, then there is a bunch of paperwork that the civil authorities require be signed.]
If you plan a wedding with the secular parts that might include a catered reception at a rented hall, photographer, florist, band or DJ, a purpose-made wedding dress, attendants in matching dresses and tuxedos, then those aspects will cost a significant amount of money. Likewise, if you plan the religious part of the wedding to include significant participation by people other than a priest (or ordained Deacon) in a five minute exchange of vows and a blessing which would include the reception of the Sacrament of Matrimony, then you have to expect that there will be some costs involved.
Just as the catering hall and musicians and dress makers are not sitting there waiting for you to show up and to perform their various services and ministrations at no charge, so also the Church does not have staffs of people waiting for you to arrive at this stage of your life for free.
The Sacrament is free. The party and all the paperwork are not.
[You usually have to interview with the priest (or Deacon) so that they can arrange for you to receive pre-marital counseling and so that they can make sure there are no impediments to the Sacrament of Marriage (previous still-valid marriages; blood relationships, etc.]
[And if you want the marriage to be recognized civilly, then there is a bunch of paperwork that the civil authorities require be signed.]
If you plan a wedding with the secular parts that might include a catered reception at a rented hall, photographer, florist, band or DJ, a purpose-made wedding dress, attendants in matching dresses and tuxedos, then those aspects will cost a significant amount of money. Likewise, if you plan the religious part of the wedding to include significant participation by people other than a priest (or ordained Deacon) in a five minute exchange of vows and a blessing which would include the reception of the Sacrament of Matrimony, then you have to expect that there will be some costs involved.
Just as the catering hall and musicians and dress makers are not sitting there waiting for you to show up and to perform their various services and ministrations at no charge, so also the Church does not have staffs of people waiting for you to arrive at this stage of your life for free.
The Sacrament is free. The party and all the paperwork are not.
T
turtle18
Guest
Al, I noticed your bio says you are married. Care to tell us how much of a fee you paid the Church for your wedding? Not the stipend for the priest or the fee to the musician.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
That was almost 40 years ago and I can’t even remember the name of the church. It was in an urban neighborhood with a church almost on every block. We also did the wedding on a budget. We had the reception at a restaurant called Weinerwald. No joke. We had a very small group. Priest and two witnesses. 1-2-3. Family. 20 people total. When we got to the church, … it was being painted; scaffolds everywhere. Painters were up in the upper stories sitting there like that fellow at Notre Dame, watching the proceedings.
Possibly we didn’t pay anything. But that was a LONG time ago. Everything was different back then. Seems like church finances were vastly different then. I wasn’t involved in any church activities; at the time I had no idea of any of the financial drama going on, if there was any. It wasn’t until decades later that I got involved and became knowledgeable about church finances, committees, and Church politics.
The changes have been very radical since the early 1970’s.
Today, many individual parishes are hurting financially and with priest shortages. They still had Catholic schools back then. Money was never the problem that it is today. [Money was always a problem, but not like today.] Back then, parish boundaries were pretty strict; you went to YOUR parish.
Nowadays they are closing churches because of financial problems. In some neighborhoods now, there is one priest for 10 parishes. Huge changes.
And there are problems because of doctrinal issues. And because of priests and bishops getting involved in leftist politics. Heresies out of Louvain in Belgium that migrated to the United States. Parishioners are leaving the Church; and taking their weekly envelopes with them.
Abortion is a big issue nowadays. It was not even on the radar horizon back then. At least not as a political issue for the working person in the pews.
People nowadays are very involved. I know of some people nowadays who got so “agitated” that they went to Rome, to visit the Holy Father personally, to complain about the “stuff” going on. Nowadays priests and bishops get fired.
None of that back then. At least none that I was or am aware.
Getting off topic. But the fact is that finances back then were not anywhere near the problem that they are now.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Apologies for getting so “into” this reply.
Got timed out.
But here’s what’s important:
The shock of Roe v. Wade didn’t happen until almost two years after we got married. Roe v. Wade was on January 22, 1973.
It just seems like church attendance, church finances, and Church politics really didn’t start to decline until after that.
In the 80’s there was a worry about an actual Honest-to-God schism in the American Catholic Church. People were even debating how to … what was the correct pronunciation of the word “schism”. “ch” or “k”.]
I inadvertently got caught up right in the middle of that.
Church buildings were being renovated into non-recognition. All that money that had gotten poured into church building construction was being thrown away so that alterations could be pursued that moved the organ to behind the altar and etc. Some call it “wreckovation”.
A lot of Catholics, who were being inadequately catechized, were leaving. Either staying home and sleeping in or joining evangelical and pentacostal churches. There are a lot of (former) Catholics who now are among Jehovah Witnesses.
With reduced numbers of parishioners, closing parishes, closing schools, sharply reduced priestly vocations (and many of those caused scandal later on), the financial situation today seems to be very different from the financial situation 40 years ago.
Sorry.
You asked me what time it was and I told you how to build a watch.
S
sacredcello
Guest
I am the one with the fiance who has issues with the Church. His problems with the Church are too complex to explain here, but I do appreciate the link that you included about the scandals in Protestant churches. I don’t know if it will help. My fiance is already well aware that more married men commit sexual abuse against children than do priests.
Most of his issues, though, I believe can be traced back to his upbringing by Catholic parents who are active in their parish, but reject the Church’s teachings about sex and morality. They have, unfortunately, poisoned their children with their ideas – all 3 of their sons have left the Church.
I went to Mass this morning at the parish where my future father-in-law is a Eucharistic minister. At breakfast afterward, he went on a tirade about what a terrible Pope John Paul II was. I don’t even know where to begin with him, except to keep my mouth firmly closed.
That said, I pray that my fiance will be able to break free of the lies he has been told by his father.
Happy Father’s Day!!!
(The good news is that my fiance is willing to practice NFP once we are married and that is better than 95% of “Catholics” out there today.)
D
dets
Guest
To: Priest and Faithful
The intent of this letter is to educate, correct and create an awareness of Sacramental and sanctuary abuse in the Catholic Church by certain priests. All below is supported by the word of God, the Catholic Church Teaching and the Canon Law.
The sacraments are an act of the whole Church, they are communal acts, in which Christ Himself Acts. The Sacramental abuse and the abuse of the sacred space of the Church referred to is in regards to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage represents the permanent union of Christ with the Church and the unbroken unity between them. Each time this Sacrament is performed we see the union and love of Christ for his Church. The Sacrament of Marriage is not an individual action that belongs exclusively to the couple, but to the whole Church, where there should be seen a joy and receive the community support. The Sacrament of Marriage is not an opportunity to make business to benefit individuals within the Church, by forcing hardship upon the Faithful who are not wealthy and denied the sacrament to them as a punishment for not pay the fee. Such action denigrates the Sacrament of Marriage. The whole community should collaborate with the celebration of a sacrament and not impose more economic weight over the couple. I have been subjected to this practice which caused me deep sorrow. A Pastor denied me the right to be married in a catholic church and to receive the sacrament of marriage because I do not have $550.00 to cover his “Church Fees”.
I will explain the inconsistencies of that practice and how this practice itself breaks communion in the Church and violent the Canon Law. It is a symptom of a deep problem in the Church. Canon Law states that the ministers cannot charge for a Sacrament. Also, the Sacrament of Marriage is a right that cannot be denied to any person that is properly prepared. Canon Law is clear regarding those two points. Sadly, the Canon Law has been used deceptively. The sacraments cannot be separated from the Church, and the sanctuary. The Pastors knows it very well. The Parish staffs under the guidance of their pastors enact this abuse. They claim that they are not charging for the Sacrament but for the church (sanctuary) “facilities”.
In fact charging for the Church Facilities to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage is to charge for the Sacrament, because you cannot separate the House of God from the Sacraments. Is not that practice a way to charge for the sacrament and a deception for the faithful?. The Physical Church is the place of the Sacraments, where Jesus is present in Body and Blood. It is the place of Prayer where the people of God gather. The bottom line of that practice is:
If you do not pay the amount, then you cannot use their Church and as a consequence, you will not receive the Sacrament of Marriage.
continue
The intent of this letter is to educate, correct and create an awareness of Sacramental and sanctuary abuse in the Catholic Church by certain priests. All below is supported by the word of God, the Catholic Church Teaching and the Canon Law.
The sacraments are an act of the whole Church, they are communal acts, in which Christ Himself Acts. The Sacramental abuse and the abuse of the sacred space of the Church referred to is in regards to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage represents the permanent union of Christ with the Church and the unbroken unity between them. Each time this Sacrament is performed we see the union and love of Christ for his Church. The Sacrament of Marriage is not an individual action that belongs exclusively to the couple, but to the whole Church, where there should be seen a joy and receive the community support. The Sacrament of Marriage is not an opportunity to make business to benefit individuals within the Church, by forcing hardship upon the Faithful who are not wealthy and denied the sacrament to them as a punishment for not pay the fee. Such action denigrates the Sacrament of Marriage. The whole community should collaborate with the celebration of a sacrament and not impose more economic weight over the couple. I have been subjected to this practice which caused me deep sorrow. A Pastor denied me the right to be married in a catholic church and to receive the sacrament of marriage because I do not have $550.00 to cover his “Church Fees”.
I will explain the inconsistencies of that practice and how this practice itself breaks communion in the Church and violent the Canon Law. It is a symptom of a deep problem in the Church. Canon Law states that the ministers cannot charge for a Sacrament. Also, the Sacrament of Marriage is a right that cannot be denied to any person that is properly prepared. Canon Law is clear regarding those two points. Sadly, the Canon Law has been used deceptively. The sacraments cannot be separated from the Church, and the sanctuary. The Pastors knows it very well. The Parish staffs under the guidance of their pastors enact this abuse. They claim that they are not charging for the Sacrament but for the church (sanctuary) “facilities”.
In fact charging for the Church Facilities to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage is to charge for the Sacrament, because you cannot separate the House of God from the Sacraments. Is not that practice a way to charge for the sacrament and a deception for the faithful?. The Physical Church is the place of the Sacraments, where Jesus is present in Body and Blood. It is the place of Prayer where the people of God gather. The bottom line of that practice is:
If you do not pay the amount, then you cannot use their Church and as a consequence, you will not receive the Sacrament of Marriage.
continue
D
dets
Guest
Continuation
It seems that now some pastors are the owners of the Churches and have the right to deny the sacrament of Marriage because you do not have the money to pay “their fees”. This policy is an abuse of power, and denigrates the dignity of the Faithful that come for the Sacrament of Marriage.
In my case, it happened after the Pastor agreed to allow me to use his church for my Marriage and we set the day of the wedding. A few days after this, the church requested $550.00 ($200.00 to use the Sanctuary, $250.00 music and $100 wedding coordinator.) I gave a donation or a contribution of $200.00 as is the custom in the Catholic Church. I did not gave the $200.00 a fee for use the sanctuary as they request. I explained that I would not need the wedding coordinator ($100) because the celebrant priest will coordinate the ceremony. I also let them know that I had the musician that would do it for free and with love. Unfortunately, their rules are: “ if you do not going to use their music Director or wedding Coordinator, you have to pay the fees anyway.”
Why the couple have to pay $250.00 for the music director when the couple have a family or a church friend that would do it for free and with love?. Why should the couple have to pay a wedding coordinator that is not needed? Then I explained my economic situation to the staff person, I am not working, my fiancé has a car of the year 1991, no air conditioner on it and a broken window, etc. I pleaded to the staff to consider my situation, but they did not want to listen and said that I would not be married there unless I paid the full package of $550.00 (Sanctuary, wedding coordinator and music). The staff were more concerned with putting money into the church bank account rather than considering my situation. I do not understand how the music director and the wedding coordinator could take the money from a couple if they are not involved in the wedding. It begs the question of correct and proper behavior, to say nothing of ethnics and charity.
This experience left me feeling as though I was negotiating to be able to receive the sacrament of matrimony. I did not felt the compassion, love of Christ, no empathy, but only the monetary concern or worry to get business for the music director and the wedding coordinator. No matter all the explanation of my economic situation, they did not want to listen. I left a check of $200.00 donation under the door of the Pastor’s office. The next day I received an email advising me that after consideration, they will not allow me to merry at that church and asked me to pick up the $200.00 check donation. I asked for a reason by email but received no answer. How could this be permitted? When we met with the Pastor, there was no suggestion that we would not be able to marry at the church. Such action is unconscionable and creates the belief that the sacraments, in this case, the Sacrament of Marriage, belongs only to the rich people or those who can afford to pay the fees.
Also there was another fee called “suggested gratuity” for the priest of $300.00, that is in addition of the package mentioned. The faithful are glad to give a donation to a priest, but a suggested donation of $300.00 is inappropriate. The duty of the Priest is to be the minister of the Sacraments. Also the diocesan priest receives a salary that is more than what many faithful receive. I would like to ask you to remember the time you were in the seminary studying to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Look upon the poor faithful people that were paying for you and for all other members of the body of Christ that supported your studies economically so that you might be ordained. It was the community, not you alone. The day of your ordination was a day of joy and no one of you were force to pay a penny for that, because the community was there for you. Whatever you received freely, should be given freely. God will provide what the church will need. If the Church needs money, other methods for acquiring funds should be employed that do not include charging for the Sacraments.
Continue
It seems that now some pastors are the owners of the Churches and have the right to deny the sacrament of Marriage because you do not have the money to pay “their fees”. This policy is an abuse of power, and denigrates the dignity of the Faithful that come for the Sacrament of Marriage.
In my case, it happened after the Pastor agreed to allow me to use his church for my Marriage and we set the day of the wedding. A few days after this, the church requested $550.00 ($200.00 to use the Sanctuary, $250.00 music and $100 wedding coordinator.) I gave a donation or a contribution of $200.00 as is the custom in the Catholic Church. I did not gave the $200.00 a fee for use the sanctuary as they request. I explained that I would not need the wedding coordinator ($100) because the celebrant priest will coordinate the ceremony. I also let them know that I had the musician that would do it for free and with love. Unfortunately, their rules are: “ if you do not going to use their music Director or wedding Coordinator, you have to pay the fees anyway.”
Why the couple have to pay $250.00 for the music director when the couple have a family or a church friend that would do it for free and with love?. Why should the couple have to pay a wedding coordinator that is not needed? Then I explained my economic situation to the staff person, I am not working, my fiancé has a car of the year 1991, no air conditioner on it and a broken window, etc. I pleaded to the staff to consider my situation, but they did not want to listen and said that I would not be married there unless I paid the full package of $550.00 (Sanctuary, wedding coordinator and music). The staff were more concerned with putting money into the church bank account rather than considering my situation. I do not understand how the music director and the wedding coordinator could take the money from a couple if they are not involved in the wedding. It begs the question of correct and proper behavior, to say nothing of ethnics and charity.
This experience left me feeling as though I was negotiating to be able to receive the sacrament of matrimony. I did not felt the compassion, love of Christ, no empathy, but only the monetary concern or worry to get business for the music director and the wedding coordinator. No matter all the explanation of my economic situation, they did not want to listen. I left a check of $200.00 donation under the door of the Pastor’s office. The next day I received an email advising me that after consideration, they will not allow me to merry at that church and asked me to pick up the $200.00 check donation. I asked for a reason by email but received no answer. How could this be permitted? When we met with the Pastor, there was no suggestion that we would not be able to marry at the church. Such action is unconscionable and creates the belief that the sacraments, in this case, the Sacrament of Marriage, belongs only to the rich people or those who can afford to pay the fees.
Also there was another fee called “suggested gratuity” for the priest of $300.00, that is in addition of the package mentioned. The faithful are glad to give a donation to a priest, but a suggested donation of $300.00 is inappropriate. The duty of the Priest is to be the minister of the Sacraments. Also the diocesan priest receives a salary that is more than what many faithful receive. I would like to ask you to remember the time you were in the seminary studying to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Look upon the poor faithful people that were paying for you and for all other members of the body of Christ that supported your studies economically so that you might be ordained. It was the community, not you alone. The day of your ordination was a day of joy and no one of you were force to pay a penny for that, because the community was there for you. Whatever you received freely, should be given freely. God will provide what the church will need. If the Church needs money, other methods for acquiring funds should be employed that do not include charging for the Sacraments.
Continue
D
dets
Guest
Continuation
Some other Churches charge for the bridal room no matter you will not use it. I thought that the bridal room was an act of Charity for the bride… No charity for the bride that some times have to travel one hour from the family home to the Church and have to use the Church to dress. The bridal represents the Church!. I was very sad when I realize that no charity in the Church but money talks.
The faithful are forced to pay the full package in order to get the Sacrament of Marriage. According to the policies established at the local catholic churches of this archdiocese, if you do not pay their CHURCH FACILITY FEE, MUSIC DIRECTOR and WEDDING COORDINADOR FEE, no matter that you have your own musician and coordinator, you will not marry in that church and you will not have the sacrament of Marriage. The priests claims that they charge because there is electricity expenses. It is not an excuse to charge for the Sacraments. Why the couple have to pay hundreds of dollars for electricity if the sacraments belongs to the whole Church. It is a cost that should be included as part of Sunday offerings. We, the faithful give on Sunday the donation with happiness to cover the expenses of the sacraments, which belongs to all of us. The Church is permitted to lease the building and facilities for special events related to the Catholic Church. The intention of such permission was not to charge for celebrate the sacraments in the Church.
It is a scandal. You hear from the faithful- we are shopping around for a church that charge less and then you hear the priests and the staff selling the “package” claiming that their church is cheaper than other Churches. The Pastor and staff are denigrating the sacrament of Marriage forcing the faithful to think that is OK to bargain the package between Churches to get the best deal. The Sacrament of Marriage has been turned into a commercial business and the manner in which it is being handled smacks of coercion.
One of the most widely told stories in the Bible speaks of how Jesus and Mary, at the wedding of Cana, helped the couple when the wine ran out. Mary, full of charity and compassion, turned to Jesus for help. Both together enriched the wedding with the best of the wines. That is a model for the priest and the Church to proceed for the Sacrament of Marriage because Jesus is the model for the priest and Mary represents the Triumphant Church. Where were Jesus and the Church when I asked for the Sacrament of Marriage? I cannot imagine Jesus denying the Sacrament of Marriage to me, because I do not have money. The pastors should respect the right of the faithful stated in the Cannon Law. The priest must be an image of Christ.
This action attempts to make the Sacrament of Marriage an individual action, rather than an action integral to the Mystical Body of Christ. I beg the priest for compassion with the poor, to see that sacraments in their proper perspective, with a direct relation of their existence and duty. The Church belongs to all the faithful, poor or rich, etc. The parishioners that support economically the Church would be very sad to realize the lack of charity in the church with their brothers and sisters that do not have economic means, yet desire to receive the sacraments.
The word of Jesus Our Lord is very clear on this subject:
41 He sat down opposite the treasury and observed how the crowd put money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents.43 Calling his disciples to himself, he said to them, “Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury.44 For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.” Mark (12, 41-44)
16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say,
23 “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; 25 and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him,
1 Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; …4 They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, 7 and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. (Mateo 23, 1-7)
24 "No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Mark 6, 24)
Another situation that I encountered due to this was that if the couples are not members of a specific parish, they have to pay extra changes. I understand that the parishioners have priority in order to reserve the church, but not to charge more to a non parishioner. Are we not one Church? If the couple belongs to another parish and for whatever reason such as, availability of their church, live in another state etc. the couple have to go to another Church, the Church should not take economic advantage of that sad situation. It is enough to have to go to another church. Whatever we do for the local Church, or for any other Catholic organization, is for the whole Church. Why are the pastors taking advantage of the faithful because they are not parishioner? If the Church is available why charge more. The Pastors do not realize that the same way he is treating the visitor from other parish, his parishioners that are not willing to marry in his parish, will be treated in the same way. Is it not a pleasure to serve no matter who is the person? Why does the Church have to take economical advantage of everything? My best friend could not marry in her own Church because they charge $1,500. She was a parishioner for 10 years. The crux of this problem is that our leaders have lost confidence in Our Lord Jesus to provide, but not in the almighty dollar. The spirit provides what the Church needs. Our Lady always depends on the Divine Providence.
A priest cannot refuse to give the Sacrament of Marriage because the Faithful does not have the money to pay the “fee for the Church”. It is a grave sin and any person that is part of that needs to ask pardon to God and stop be part of it.
The end!
Some other Churches charge for the bridal room no matter you will not use it. I thought that the bridal room was an act of Charity for the bride… No charity for the bride that some times have to travel one hour from the family home to the Church and have to use the Church to dress. The bridal represents the Church!. I was very sad when I realize that no charity in the Church but money talks.
The faithful are forced to pay the full package in order to get the Sacrament of Marriage. According to the policies established at the local catholic churches of this archdiocese, if you do not pay their CHURCH FACILITY FEE, MUSIC DIRECTOR and WEDDING COORDINADOR FEE, no matter that you have your own musician and coordinator, you will not marry in that church and you will not have the sacrament of Marriage. The priests claims that they charge because there is electricity expenses. It is not an excuse to charge for the Sacraments. Why the couple have to pay hundreds of dollars for electricity if the sacraments belongs to the whole Church. It is a cost that should be included as part of Sunday offerings. We, the faithful give on Sunday the donation with happiness to cover the expenses of the sacraments, which belongs to all of us. The Church is permitted to lease the building and facilities for special events related to the Catholic Church. The intention of such permission was not to charge for celebrate the sacraments in the Church.
It is a scandal. You hear from the faithful- we are shopping around for a church that charge less and then you hear the priests and the staff selling the “package” claiming that their church is cheaper than other Churches. The Pastor and staff are denigrating the sacrament of Marriage forcing the faithful to think that is OK to bargain the package between Churches to get the best deal. The Sacrament of Marriage has been turned into a commercial business and the manner in which it is being handled smacks of coercion.
One of the most widely told stories in the Bible speaks of how Jesus and Mary, at the wedding of Cana, helped the couple when the wine ran out. Mary, full of charity and compassion, turned to Jesus for help. Both together enriched the wedding with the best of the wines. That is a model for the priest and the Church to proceed for the Sacrament of Marriage because Jesus is the model for the priest and Mary represents the Triumphant Church. Where were Jesus and the Church when I asked for the Sacrament of Marriage? I cannot imagine Jesus denying the Sacrament of Marriage to me, because I do not have money. The pastors should respect the right of the faithful stated in the Cannon Law. The priest must be an image of Christ.
This action attempts to make the Sacrament of Marriage an individual action, rather than an action integral to the Mystical Body of Christ. I beg the priest for compassion with the poor, to see that sacraments in their proper perspective, with a direct relation of their existence and duty. The Church belongs to all the faithful, poor or rich, etc. The parishioners that support economically the Church would be very sad to realize the lack of charity in the church with their brothers and sisters that do not have economic means, yet desire to receive the sacraments.
The word of Jesus Our Lord is very clear on this subject:
41 He sat down opposite the treasury and observed how the crowd put money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents.43 Calling his disciples to himself, he said to them, “Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury.44 For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.” Mark (12, 41-44)
16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say,
If any one swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, If any one swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; 21 and he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who dwells in it; 22 and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! (Mathew 23, 16-24)23 “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; 25 and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him,
Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27 And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, Pay what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30 He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. 31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. 32 Then his lord summoned him and said to him, You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; 33 and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ 34 And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”1 Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; …4 They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, 7 and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. (Mateo 23, 1-7)
24 "No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Mark 6, 24)
Another situation that I encountered due to this was that if the couples are not members of a specific parish, they have to pay extra changes. I understand that the parishioners have priority in order to reserve the church, but not to charge more to a non parishioner. Are we not one Church? If the couple belongs to another parish and for whatever reason such as, availability of their church, live in another state etc. the couple have to go to another Church, the Church should not take economic advantage of that sad situation. It is enough to have to go to another church. Whatever we do for the local Church, or for any other Catholic organization, is for the whole Church. Why are the pastors taking advantage of the faithful because they are not parishioner? If the Church is available why charge more. The Pastors do not realize that the same way he is treating the visitor from other parish, his parishioners that are not willing to marry in his parish, will be treated in the same way. Is it not a pleasure to serve no matter who is the person? Why does the Church have to take economical advantage of everything? My best friend could not marry in her own Church because they charge $1,500. She was a parishioner for 10 years. The crux of this problem is that our leaders have lost confidence in Our Lord Jesus to provide, but not in the almighty dollar. The spirit provides what the Church needs. Our Lady always depends on the Divine Providence.
A priest cannot refuse to give the Sacrament of Marriage because the Faithful does not have the money to pay the “fee for the Church”. It is a grave sin and any person that is part of that needs to ask pardon to God and stop be part of it.
The end!
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