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sacredcello
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Thanks, I will do just that!
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BamaRider
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Look, I dunno much but my son is 28, and will marry in the Faith in a Catholic Church. SOMEDAY LOL.
Speaking hypotheticaly, if he marries a Protestant girl I would feel the right thing is for our family to handle anything financialy that has to do with the Church, and ceremony. If she’s Catholic, then I think that would be a shared expense.
But here is where I have a problem. My wife and I were married in our current parish 32 years ago, full honors (Nuptial Mass) my son was baptized in the parish, my parents, Godmother had their funeral Mass celebrated here. I’ve been a member since I was 11 years old and I am currently 52. We have supported this church financially going on 50 years, and now they’ll gonna charge me the use of the Church if my son decides to come home to marry in the parish of his Baptism? (he lives in another city)
Somehow that doesn’t seem correct. But I don’t know any of this for sure, because is not getting married soon, I was just thinking about what ifs.
I live in the deep south, you don’t cut the AC off in the summer EVER. You folks up north turn the heat OFF in winter except when someone is in the church? How does that work? If so I’ll be sure to bring a extra coat if I attend Mass in St. Paul in Febl LOL. (I’m thin blodded anyway)The AC is gonna be on here if a wedding is taking place or not. As far as the other stuff (clean up, music etc) that depends.
I’m thinking if there is a full time music person, on the parish payroll, I’m sorry but thats his JOB to work with couples to get the music right. I can see compensation for clean up guys with 8-5 hours that must come in on a weekend to attend things.
We have none of those at our parish. Our music people are whoever we can talk into it. I can see compensating them for their time.
How do ya mix a wedding party with a Vigil Mass? Guests just co mingle in with the rest of the folks who were just looking to go to Mass? Does the bride march out in this situation? What about all those guys who showed up for Mass and got a wedding, they get to crash the reception? LOL.
Just my :twocents:
Speaking hypotheticaly, if he marries a Protestant girl I would feel the right thing is for our family to handle anything financialy that has to do with the Church, and ceremony. If she’s Catholic, then I think that would be a shared expense.
But here is where I have a problem. My wife and I were married in our current parish 32 years ago, full honors (Nuptial Mass) my son was baptized in the parish, my parents, Godmother had their funeral Mass celebrated here. I’ve been a member since I was 11 years old and I am currently 52. We have supported this church financially going on 50 years, and now they’ll gonna charge me the use of the Church if my son decides to come home to marry in the parish of his Baptism? (he lives in another city)
Somehow that doesn’t seem correct. But I don’t know any of this for sure, because is not getting married soon, I was just thinking about what ifs.
I live in the deep south, you don’t cut the AC off in the summer EVER. You folks up north turn the heat OFF in winter except when someone is in the church? How does that work? If so I’ll be sure to bring a extra coat if I attend Mass in St. Paul in Febl LOL. (I’m thin blodded anyway)The AC is gonna be on here if a wedding is taking place or not. As far as the other stuff (clean up, music etc) that depends.
I’m thinking if there is a full time music person, on the parish payroll, I’m sorry but thats his JOB to work with couples to get the music right. I can see compensation for clean up guys with 8-5 hours that must come in on a weekend to attend things.
We have none of those at our parish. Our music people are whoever we can talk into it. I can see compensating them for their time.
How do ya mix a wedding party with a Vigil Mass? Guests just co mingle in with the rest of the folks who were just looking to go to Mass? Does the bride march out in this situation? What about all those guys who showed up for Mass and got a wedding, they get to crash the reception? LOL.
Just my :twocents:
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sacredcello
Guest
I am a professional musician who works in many different churches, both Catholic and Protestant and have found that the music director ALWAYS gets compensated for his/her time coordinating and playing weddings and funerals in addition to their salary. All the other professional musicians, like myself, are also paid, since we were invited to play by the family. Most salaries for music directors are not enough to pay the bills. Though you may not realize it, many of us have earned masters or doctoral degrees in our field of music, just like doctors and lawyers have spent their time in pursuit of excellence in their field, though we don’t earn anywhere close to the amount that they make.
It will be interesting. I’ll be sure to let you know, if it happens!
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Sarabande
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BamaRider - I just loved the tone of your entire post. It sincerely made me smile. 
I think it really depends on the parish. Since my parish is our archdiocese Cathedral, the majority of couples who marry there aren’t even parishioners, but are usually people from other parishes. I know they give breaks to those who are more involved with the parish. For instance, my husband and I did not have to pay the fee when we were married there because we were so involved with the music liturgy. If you are a parishioner there, they can’t turn you away from getting married just because you can’t afford the fee. BUT they can if you are just some couple who don’t even attend mass there and have no other connection to the parish, but for some reason would like to get married at that church.
LOL!!! Yes, they don’t necessarily turn it all the way off, but when people aren’t in there, they turn it down REALLY low. Even during mass, it is FREEZING in there. Sometimes my hands are ice cold or my feet get so cold that I’m ready to burst by the time mass ends. I took my coat off during Good Friday and I was shaking and eventually had to put the coat back on by the end of the mass. hahaha! In summer at the cathedral, it keeps cool pretty well when all of the lights are turned off during the week. But they tend to turn up the AC during mass. In the country mountain parish where I attended a lot as a child and now during visits to our family property, they don’t have air conditioning, but do have fans and only use them during mass.
Actually, at many parishes, if they have a salaried music director, it is usually an estimation. So, let’s say the average organist/music director salary at a large parish is about $40,000 a year. This is what happens with some of my colleagues: The parish will guestimate the number of funerals and weddings they have a year. So at a very active, young parish there may be about 85 weddings/funerals give or take - maybe less (we have about 85 a year at the cathedral). Multiply that by, let’s say, $200 per wedding depending on the city you are in and standard of living. That’s $17,000 (which is taxed). So, they will subtract $17,000 from $40,000. That leaves $23,000 which would be the actual set amount the parish will actually pay the organist/music director for his/her expertise as a musician, the overseer and planner of the music liturgy, and director of the choir(s). Then you hope that the church will get about 85 weddings/funerals a year to truly get the $40,000 offered. And most musicians will meet or at least have a phone/email meetings with bridal couples (or bride’s mothers) regarding the music which is included in the wedding music fee.
I actually don’t know how a wedding during a Vigil Mass would work. I’ve heard that it can be done, but I’ve never seen it, nor have I seen it offered by churches. I guess you would know which ones were there for the wedding by the people in their tuxedos and gowns or very nice cocktail dresses and heels. Maybe kind like what you see when you walk into St. Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC and there’s a wedding going on dressed very nicely and then all of these tourists walking around in their jeans and cameras.
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Sarabande
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So, so, so true. I have colleagues who spent about $100,000 for their total conservatory education - I can safely say that it will take a lot to pay that back, especially when you are first starting out. The ones who decide to go into church music won’t be making $40,000 to start - try $15,000 to $25,000 - hardly enough to pay back loans and be able to live.
I didn’t pay that much for my education, but put in all the years of private training and coaching (which I still take) and school compared to the compensation… basically I can’t think about it, lest it make me a little sick. hahaha! We definitely don’t do music and sacred music for the big bucks. It’s certainly for the love of it.
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sacredcello
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That’s great! I’m glad to hear that your church recognized your service and gave you a break on the wedding fee.
I’ve given 5 years of service singing in the choir and playing my cello for free and lectoring in my church. But, unfortunately, there was a big scandal a few years ago with our music director who was unjustly fired and the choristers all stood up for him, writing letters to the bishop and archdiocese and even pooling money together for him (by cutting off our tithe to the parish for a time), since the church gave him NO severance pay or letter of recommendation. This doesn’t sit well with the parish staff, so I don’t anticipate being given a break on the wedding fee. Oh, well.
It seems like other parishes would do as yours did in recognizing dedicated volunteers.
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sacredcello
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Isn’t that the truth! And, while we are struggling to pay back our loans, we have to educate people as to why they need to pay us in the first place! And, sometimes even our own families. When my grandfather died last year, I played for his funeral together with the pianist at that parish. I asked my uncle to pick up her fee of $150 (I would have, but could not afford it at that time), and then had to explain to him that yes, indeed, this was a perfectly reasonable fee, in fact, rather low. That’s ok, I am still so thankful to be playing professionally and loving what I do.
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Phemie
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That’s why weddings on Sundays are discouraged, although not forbidden. I’ve read an article, written by a pastor, about a couple who were very involved in ministry in their parish. They were married at the Sunday morning Mass but they did the opening rites as envisioned in the Rite of Marrige: came up together in the entrance procession, sat in the pews as I recall, and everything was as a regular Sunday Mass except that they exchanged their vows with the parish in attendance, as opposed to only their guests in attendance. Because they were so involved with their parish family it had seemed normal for them to do this as it was to have their baby baptized at Sunday Mass a few years later. This was a couple who realized that their wedding was a community sacrament and not a private occasion.
Few couples I’ve met over the years would even consider this; none but one have ever wanted the entrance rites proposed by the Marriage Ritual.
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Phemie
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Usually salaried parish organists collect a bench fee whether or not they are the ones who play for the wedding/funeral, simply because the salary they draw is based on additional compensation for playing at weddings and funerals. They are available, you pay for them anyway so why go looking for someone else?
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Sarabande
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This is true - I sort of broke it down a couple posts back at how that works out. Although, I worked in parishes where the “organist” or the “pianist” was so horrific (couldn’t even call them musicians) that the family of the deceased or the bridal couple rather pay their fee AND hire an outside musician.
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Sarabande
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That sounded like a lovely wedding.
In regards to those Catholic couples who are devout and take mass and the Sacrament seriously, I have to say that most of those couples, including myself, did not even know that the sacrament being made during a regular mass would even be permitted when we were engaged. It was never mentioned in the informatino we received, nor did I ever read it in the Catholic literature regarding Catholic marriage during the time we were engaged. That may have been something we would have wanted to do during the Latin NO high mass at the Cathedral because we were so involved with the choir during those masses as well as all of the other high masses in English, and it would have been something very beautiful to share in.
And even though these couples have the “private” mass, they know that the church is always open to people and most welcome it. Actually when we were married, we had many more people at the ceremony than our actual guests. They just looked like people who came in to pray or to see the inside of the Cathedral and just decided to witness the wedding - even a group of homeless men who were mentally challenged and they just walked in off the streets. There’s a picture of my husband shaking hands with one of them as we were leaving the Cathedral and they were congratulating us.
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Phemie
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True, anyone can attend a wedding that’s been announced, as they usually were in the bulletin in my home parish – and the practice there was that weddings were celebrated at the usual time for Mass and replaced Mass even if they were celebrated within Liturgies of the Word (as ours was).That sounded like a lovely wedding.
In regards to those Catholic couples who are devout and take mass and the Sacrament seriously, I have to say that most of those couples, including myself, did not even know that the sacrament being made during a regular mass would even be permitted when we were engaged. It was never mentioned in the informatino we received, nor did I ever read it in the Catholic literature regarding Catholic marriage during the time we were engaged. That may have been something we would have wanted to do during the Latin NO high mass at the Cathedral because we were so involved with the choir during those masses as well as all of the other high masses in English, and it would have been something very beautiful to share in.
And even though these couples have the “private” mass, they know that the church is always open to people and most welcome it. Actually when we were married, we had many more people at the ceremony than our actual guests. They just looked like people who came in to pray or to see the inside of the Cathedral and just decided to witness the wedding - even a group of homeless men who were mentally challenged and they just walked in off the streets. There’s a picture of my husband shaking hands with one of them as we were leaving the Cathedral and they were congratulating us.
But for many a bride it’s all about her day and often the priest does nothing to disabuse her of that notion. I’ve watched our pastor set up for a wedding and was shocked to see him line up 10 chairs in the sanctuary, directly in front of the altar, facing the people. Sitting there they couldn’t even see the ambo without craning their necks. When I questioned it, he indicated that the entire wedding party would sit there because it was better for picture taking. My reply, “Yes, because we know the wedding liturgy is all about pictures.” Now brides love him because he lets them do anything they get in their foolish little heads, from canned music for the entire ceremony, even within Mass, including but not limited to c**p by Shania Twain, to any ‘ritual’ they care to come up with. It will make it very difficult for his successor when he’s replaced (fingers crossed…).
Interestingly, a non-Catholic bride who was in the office making arrangements, was most appreciative when I indicated that, although not forbidden, the unity candle wasn’t part of the rite and better symbols already existed in the rite itself. "Good, I can tell his mother “NO!”. It’s funny, sometimes the non-Catholic bride is much more respectful of the Catholic rite than the one who’s been raised in the Church – witness the bride who threatened to go to the bishop because our regular anticipated Sunday Mass is at 4:30 p.m. on Saturday and that conflicted with her desire to have her wedding at that time. Pastor caved and changed the time of the regular Mass to accommodate her.
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Sarabande
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Ick!!! I know the type. My example was for devout, practicing bridal couples - not the ones you speak of. I have to deal with brides all the time as a ceremony musician, so I TOTALLY know what you mean with these Bridezillas. They care more about the wedding rather than the actual Sacrament.
I’m very fortunate (and spoiled in a way) at our parish. The priests and musicians do not cow-tow to the brides. They have very specific rules to ensure that the Sacrament is respected and reverent. They don’t allow photographers in the sanctuary and are only allowed in a certain area of the cathedral to take photos. The music must be appropriate - and I’m sure you’ve heard of the stories of brides yelling at music directors and throwing tantrums for not allowing the Wedding March or some other inappropriate pop song.
But, sometimes when I’m hired as a musician at other parishes, I experience what you have related. Priests allowing anything for the tantrum bride, inappropriate music selections (I’ve had to refuse singing certain pieces of music for a wedding I was hired for recently.)
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BamaRider
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I wasn’t aware of this, mostly because our parish has no paid people. If the music guys salary is adjusted in anticipation of weddings/funerals I think it is ok. If ya tell a guy the job pays 40k a year but we budget only 25 with the difference coming from weddings and funerals I think it reasonable.
And I don’t really have a problem with the other fees, especially when couples move their weddings to the Cathedral, but may attend Mass at other parishes. I just find it circumspect for a parish to expect fee from someone who has been going to Mass and supporting the parish for 40 years!
I’m not saying that is the case in our parish, and in fact I don’t even know if we have a policy. In a 20k weddding I don’t think money is the issue, and if that is the case, I’d not feel right making sure my Chruch was not taken care of, just don’t take me for granted.
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Petrus127
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One additional factor about Church musicians that I haven’t seen mentioned here is that to be available on a day or two’s notice to sing or play for a funeral requires you not to work a regular job. I was able to do this for some years as a cantor because my other paying jobs were performances in the evenings. So the fee covers many aspects of the working musician’s training and availability.
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fnz2thrght
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correct me if I’m way off base here, but can’t a parish deny the use of the church for non-parishioners? Shouldn’t you be making the sacraments in the church where you are a parishioner? I know this is something that we stress to families in preparation for First Eucharist - that they are to make these sacraments in their own parish, not because they want Johhny and Susie who are cousins to receive together.
When I got married I wanted to be married no where but in the parish where I was baptized, made my first communion and confirmation and where I sat in the front row every week. I would have felt odd going to another church just because I wanted a bigger, more ornate building or a better organ or a longer aisle or whatever. I don’t really understand that at all. So I understand why people are charged money. We were not charged anything but I do know my dad made donations to everyone involved (priest, alter servers etc)
When I look at wedding pictures with my children we feel a connection. When I look at my other family member’s wedding pictures (church shoppers) there’s nothing. The church was simply a building that looked pretty.
When I got married I wanted to be married no where but in the parish where I was baptized, made my first communion and confirmation and where I sat in the front row every week. I would have felt odd going to another church just because I wanted a bigger, more ornate building or a better organ or a longer aisle or whatever. I don’t really understand that at all. So I understand why people are charged money. We were not charged anything but I do know my dad made donations to everyone involved (priest, alter servers etc)
When I look at wedding pictures with my children we feel a connection. When I look at my other family member’s wedding pictures (church shoppers) there’s nothing. The church was simply a building that looked pretty.
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sacredcello
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Great point! Thank you!
Most of my gigs are in the evening, too and I have often thought about taking a part-time day job, but that would mean not being available for various gigs like funerals that come up with very short notice. I also need time to plan the music with the family and practice it, so the fee is not only for my training, but for my availability for the event itself.
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Phemie
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There are always exceptions. When DD first talked about getting married we were considering the church where her dad & I were married and where we returned to have her & her brother baptized. It had not been my parish for 30+ years and had never been her parish, but it was the parish where I’d grown up, in my hometown and the one place my military brat DD considered HOME and connected to her grandparents.
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ASimpleSinner
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You just aren’t imagining all the possibilities. Among my friends
COUPLE #1
“Susie” was a convert with no “childhood parish” who was recieved into the Catholic Church in one Michigan, moved back to her hometown in Cleveland, followed “Johnny” her fiance out to Boston who was a lapsed Catholic… They started attending Mass in Boston, wanted to have their marriage in Cleveland - where they were both from - and the parish that sort of made the most sense - kind of - was Saint Soandso where the bride’s non-Catholic mother had taught for a few years.
COUPLE #2
Another couple I know came down to Ohio State - met on campus, went to the Newman Center (a particularly UGLY place which used to have particularly AWFUL preaching and incredibly ILLICIT practices…)
In this case, Suzy & Johnny come from two different parts of the state - him 2.5 north-east to Cleveland, her 2.5 hours southwest to Cinci… Columbus has hotels galore, and many beatiful Catholic Churches otherwise to choose from…
COUPLE #3
A Third Couple lives in the parish of Our Lady of Huge Suburban Parishes (a common patroness of Las Vegas parishes) and the life of the parish is such that there is something going on all weekend long- 6 or 7 Masses betwen Sat vigil & Sunday, Confessions at noon or 1 in the church on Saturday with Sat AM mass in Spanish at 9, in English at 8. If you want to get married there, you have a four hour window on Saturdays, and guess what, you ain’t the only couple vying for the 48-ish open slots. If you don’t time it right there, there is going to be a traffic jam as your guests are leaving and the Saturday afternoon folks are coming… You are going to be rushed for your photos afterwards too.
COUPLE #4
Small college town Catholic Church is booked every Saturday available for the next 24 months. Even if they could book it, Suzy’s family is all from Minnesota (8+ hours away) and holding it there in a town with few hotels and one catering hall isn’t going to cut it. Johnny’s great-uncle is a priest of a religious order who contacts the parish his religious order staffs in Toledo (45 min away) and they make arrangements for Johnny & Suzie to be married with Johnny’s uncle presiding.
There are all weddings I have been in in the past three-four years. Just because they are non-parishoners doesn’t mean or imply they showed up out of the woodwork looking for a wedding chapel. There are good and valid reasons to turn to another parish instead of your own.
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fnz2thrght
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yes, i should have said - obviously there are always exceptions (children living away from home, coming home to be married, or in your case a home parish, or other situations, obviously we should have charity towards people’s situations)
But that doesn’t sound like what the OP actually was asking. She said *“My sister is getting married and all of the churches she has checked into are charging between $150 & $1000 for the use of the Church, even if you are a member.**” * How many churches can you actually be a member of? It sounds to me that many people are simply looking for a pretty place to have their wedding and they’re outraged to be charged. That’s what I’m getting at then - can’t a church simply say that the use of their building is only for parishioners? (or those with very valid reasons for wanting to use the church)
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