Where are the Bible verses to back up baby sprinkling?

[Sabda]

Right and then it has to be accepted. I give you a Christmas presant…until you take it in your hand, unwrap it and say thank you you have not accepted the gift. I can give you a gift and you can put it on the floor and walk away. They gift was given, but not accepted. Both have to be done to complete the act.

Exactly, parents have a responsibility as Christians to raise their children up in the Christian faith. Once the child is of age they make the decision to accept that Christian faith fully, we call this the Sacrament of Confirmation. The children can not accept the faith if they don’t know it and the best way for them to learn is to live it with their parents.

How do you give a present to a baby? By giving it to the parents and letting the parents open it up and use it to help the baby learn about the world around them. Have you never given a baby a present? Are you saying that baby’s should not be given presents simply because they don’t understand or know that they need to accept or reject the gift?

 

[SHW]

**
Purpose for baptism for babies:**

Spiritual rebirth. To become born again. To become regenerated spiritually so that it will be possible for us to inherit eternal life when we die.

Adam sinned the first sin (Original Sin) and thereby lost eternal life for himself and all his progeny. We became God’s “enemies” through Adam’s sin.

Rom 5:6-15
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world (Original Sin), and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 … 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s (Adam’s) offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

**Why does Baptism cleanse us from Adam’s sin (and all other sins on our souls at the time of Baptism)? **

Jesus applies the merits of His Sacrifice on the Cross to our souls through Baptism. The waters of Baptism cleanse our souls of Original Sin (Adam’s sin which we all inherited) and also all our personal sins (if we have any on our souls).

Babies need to have Adam’s sin (Original Sin) removed from their souls so that they can be spiritually reconciled to God (born again) even though they do not have any personal sins on their souls at the time of their baptisms. Baptism’s main purpose is to remove Original Sin from our souls.

How are the merits of His Sacrifice applied to our souls during/through Baptism?

1 Cor 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The Holy Spirit removes all sins from our souls through Baptism (by water and the Spirit) and we are “born again” or “regenerated” spiritually and we become reconciled to God.

Jn 3:3-7
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Titus 3:4-7
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The water of Baptism makes us born again/spiritually regenerated. We are no longer God’s enemies. We are reconciled to God and we now have hope of eternal life.

Jn 19:34
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately **blood and water **came out.

1 Jn 5:6-8
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are** three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood**; and these three agree as one.

We become Jesus’ disciples when we are baptized with water. We become members of His Church through Baptism. The Holy Spirit removes all sins from our souls through the water and the blood. The baptismal water applies the merits of the blood of Jesus’ Sacrifice to our souls and we are then born again/spiritually regenerated.

Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

After baptism (after we are made Jesus’ disciples), we are to be taught to observe/do all things that Jesus **commanded **so that we may inherit eternal life when we die.

Baptism reconciles us spiritually to God and this reconciliation gives us hope of eternal life.

 

[SHW]

Purgatory:

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

These souls in purgatory (prison) were the souls who had repented while the flood was drowning them. Jesus went to preach to them while He was waiting for His resurrection from the dead. So, sometime between Friday afternoon after His death until He arose from the dead on Resurrection Sunday (Easter), He preached to these poor souls in purgatory (prison). They had already been in this prison (purgatory) for about 2000 years because Noah’s flood happened about 2000 years before Jesus’ Incarnation.

Where were the souls of the Righteous/Just persons who had lived and died before Jesus’ birth and death? They were not in Purgatory/prison. They were in a place of comfort awaiting the re-opening of the gates of heaven so that they could enter.

They were waiting in “Abraham’s bosom” or some call it “Limbo” or “Paradise” for short because it is a place located somewhere between earth and the third heaven where God’s throne is located (2 Corinthians 12:1-5), possibly it is the place called the second heaven.

Luke 16:19-26
There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
**
The persons who were in Abraham’s bosom were not in prison.** Abraham’s bosom was a place of comfort. The rich man was in hell. He had every comfort on earth but neglected to love His fellow man. He did not give his excess away. He kept it for himself (Luke 3:11)This is one reason why Jesus taught that it is very difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 19:23).

The Just/Righteous had to wait in Abraham’s bosom until Jesus died so that He could open the gates of heaven again. Adam’s sin closed the gates of heaven. No human person could ascend into the third heaven until after Jesus ascended there first and re-opened the gates which had been closed since Adam’s sin.
**
Before Jesus’ death and resurection:**
John 3:12-15
If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

After Jesus’ resurrection:
John 20:16-18
Jesus said to her, “Mary!”
She turned and said to Him, “Rabboni!” (which is to say, Teacher).
17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her (Acts 26:22-24).

Jesus re-opened the gates of heaven and all those in Abraham’s bosom entered into eternal life and they are awaiting the resurrection of their bodies on the Last Day (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

 

[inkaneer]

In order to be released from the laws of the Church, you actually have to make a formal defection in writing to your Bishop - you can’t just stop showing up for Mass.

Few, if any people take the time or make the effort to effect a formal defection. To them an informal defection serves the purpose. But a defection is a defection whether it be formal or not. The church is lenient in calling them Catholic. Few of these defectors would refer to themselves as Catholic. They would say “I was a Catholic” or, " When I was a Catholic." And to think they had the pearl of great price in their hands. . .

 

[jmcrae]

Few, if any people take the time or make the effort to effect a formal defection. To them an informal defection serves the purpose. But a defection is a defection whether it be formal or not. The church is lenient in calling them Catholic. Few of these defectors would refer to themselves as Catholic. They would say “I was a Catholic” or, " When I was a Catholic." And to think they had the pearl of great price in their hands. . .

Yes - which is very convenient if they get divorced, because they can easily get a Declaration of Nullity, for lack of form.

 

[tweetymom]

Yes - which is very convenient if they get divorced, because they can easily get a Declaration of Nullity, for lack of form.

Is that a good thing?

 

[jmcrae]

Is that a good thing?

For a secular person who doesn’t care what happens to him in the afterlife (or who thinks that God is a doddling Grandpa who doesn’t pay attention to how he behaves in this life, and will give him a lolly in the afterlife no matter what he does), it’s a very good thing.

Of course, it also means that he actually can’t contract a valid marriage in the sight of God, either - so if he values his immortal soul and cares where it will end up in the afterlife, he’ll want to correct his situation.

 

[tweetymom]

For a secular person who doesn’t care what happens to him in the afterlife (or who thinks that God is a doddling Grandpa who doesn’t pay attention to how he behaves in this life, and will give him a lolly in the afterlife no matter what he does), it’s a very good thing.

Of course, it also means that he actually can’t contract a valid marriage in the sight of God, either - so if he values his immortal soul and cares where it will end up in the afterlife, he’ll want to correct his situation.

So they can get an annulment? I ask this because I do not agree with annulment.

 

[jmcrae]

So they can get an annulment? I ask this because I do not agree with annulment.

I don’t agree with annulments either - and the Church doesn’t give them.

What the Church gives is a “Declaration of Nullity” when they find that the couple had never been validly married, to begin with. (ie: they were just living together without the benefit of marriage, the whole time, although they went through some kind of false ceremony for it.)

Someone who was baptized in the Catholic Church but doesn’t follow the Church’s rules regarding marriage, can’t become validly married - so if he later “gets a divorce” and then decides he wants to return to the Church, he can easily get a Declaration of Nullity in order to get married for the first time since he had never been validly married before.

 

[tweetymom]

I don’t agree with annulments either - and the Church doesn’t give them.

What the Church gives is a “Declaration of Nullity” when they find that the couple had never been validly married, to begin with. (ie: they were just living together without the benefit of marriage, the whole time, although they went through some kind of false ceremony for it.)

Someone who was baptized in the Catholic Church but doesn’t follow the Church’s rules regarding marriage, can’t become validly married - so if he later “gets a divorce” and then decides he wants to return to the Church, he can easily get a Declaration of Nullity in order to get married for the first time since he had never been validly married before.

Sorry don’t mean to be rude but it is double talk to me and I do not understand how the CC can come up with this since it is not in the Bible.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Do AOG teach pre-tribulation rapture?
I’m not asking to debate just interested to know.

Do AOG teach it is literal water in john3:5?
Ie: must be born of water and spirit?

They teach that when the antichrist is reveled, around that time the rapture will take place. We do not know for sure, so this is how I live personally…It the rapture takes place pre-tributation i will be ready…if its mid-tribulation I will be ready and if we have to go through the tribulation and then we are raptured, I need to be ready…so I keep looking up, waiting for that trump to sound, and being ready. That is what we should all be.

O.K. question 2.Jesus was talking to Nicodemus here. Not the natural birth for Nicodemus already had this birth and he was tild he had to be born again of both water and Spirit. Not water baptism…all O.T. saints were saved and baorn again without water baptism ( Heb. 11, Rom 3:23-25, Heb. 9:15, Rom. 4, Gal.4:29, Dt. 32:18, 2 Peter 1:21and lots more if you want them…They all had the Holyl Spirit, gifts and many blessings without water baptism. Ps. 51:12, 1 kings 3:12, 4:29-34 ect. Many in Christ’s ministry were gorgiven without water baptism 9 Mt. 9:1-7, 22, Mk.5:34, 10:52, Lk 7:48 , 17:19 , 18:9-14, 19: 1-9 etc…Men have been baptised inthe Holy Spirit before water baptism…Acts 9:17,10:44-48,11:14-18,15:7-11…Christ was baptixed in water without forgivveness of sins Mt. 3:15-17 It is a mere figure 1 Peter 3:21 and witness…1 John 5:6-10 but not held as essential to salvation 1 Cor. 1:13-24, 15: 1-5 , Rom1:16 , more in Acts, Eph., John, 1 John…Water is used in a fugurative sense of ssalvation John 4:14 , Isa. 12:3 of the spirit baptism… John 7:37-39, and of cleansingt by the Word of God…John 15:3, Eph. 5:26 Since men are cleansed and born again by the Word Jas.1:18, 1Peter 1:23 It is clear that being born of water means being born again by the Word of God. Long answer, and I hope it helps.

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry don’t mean to be rude but it is double talk to me and I do not understand how the CC can come up with this since it is not in the Bible.

I don’t know, either, but it is the teaching of the Church, which is God on earth, so it must be true.

To my way of thinking, once you are married, that’s it, you stay married until death ye do part, no matter what. (Even if you have to separate for a time, because of major problems, you would never consider yourself “single” and you would never shut the door permanently.)

 

[tweetymom]

I don’t know, either, but it is the teaching of the Church, which is God on earth, so it must be true.

To my way of thinking, once you are married, that’s it, you stay married until death ye do part, no matter what. (Even if you have to separate for a time, because of major problems, you would never consider yourself “single” and you would never shut the door permanently.)

I agree with your second part 100% But really question the first part. If it is the teaching of the CC why didn’t God see that it was in the scriptures?

 

[jmcrae]

O.K. question 2.Jesus was talking to Nicodemus here. Not the natural birth for Nicodemus already had this birth and he was tild he had to be born again of both water and Spirit.

No - “water and the Spirit” is a reference to Christian baptism with water.

He did not say “water, by which I mean the Holy Spirit” but “water AND the Holy Spirit” - two substances, there - one is water, and the other is the Holy Spirit - both of them are together, in the same place.

 

[jmcrae]

I agree with your second part 100% But really question the first part. If it is the teaching of the CC why didn’t God see that it was in the scriptures?

Because He knew that we wouldn’t have the Scriptures for the first 400 years of the Church, so He put it into the Holy Tradition, so that the first generations would also be able to know about it.

 

[tweetymom]

:

Because He knew that we wouldn’t have the Scriptures for the first 400 years of the Church, so He put it into the Holy Tradition, so that the first generations would also be able to know about it.

:nope:

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Where are the Bible verses to back up baby sprinkling?

Baptism means to “immerse into” and you will not find any place in Scripture where infants are baptized nor the first 2-3oo years of church history. What ever Scripture you receive, just insert infant and that is how you will have it in Scripture. You must insert it into Scripture.

Baptism always represents an object/person going into the water or in many cases Christ; not water being poured on top of a person. Funny; I was just studying this subject last night.

If you read the places in Scripture and substitute the word “immersion” or “immersed” where you see the word baptized or baptism; it opens up new understanding and thought.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Ezekiel 36:25, “I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.”

Jesus requires baptism for entering heaven (John 3:5; Mark 16:16). St. Paul tells us that all are born with Adam’s sin and thus need baptism:

Thank you for that passage in Ezekiel; I have been looking for a short time and “bam”; there you put it out there.

Here it is in context:
Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

This is the purification or cleansing that Jesus spoke of while speaking with Nicodemus in John 3
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Nicodemus would have immediately knew the words of the Lord to the prophet Ezekiel and if you read it carefully; it is a picture of salvation. New heart of flesh, cleanse of sins etc give you a new spirit. By Gods Grace through Faith; it is the gift of God, not by works or rites or rituals or traditions, but by Jesus Christ.

Christian baptism didn’t even exist when these words were spoken to Nicodemus…think.

Thank you soo much for that, what a blessing.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

They teach that when the antichrist is reveled, around that time the rapture will take place. We do not know for sure, so this is how I live personally…It the rapture takes place pre-tributation i will be ready…if its mid-tribulation I will be ready and if we have to go through the tribulation and then we are raptured, I need to be ready…so I keep looking up, waiting for that trump to sound, and being ready. That is what we should all be.

O.K. question 2.Jesus was talking to Nicodemus here. Not the natural birth for Nicodemus already had this birth and he was tild he had to be born again of both water and Spirit. Not water baptism…all O.T. saints were saved and baorn again without water baptism ( Heb. 11, Rom 3:23-25, Heb. 9:15, Rom. 4, Gal.4:29, Dt. 32:18, 2 Peter 1:21and lots more if you want them…They all had the Holyl Spirit, gifts and many blessings without water baptism. Ps. 51:12, 1 kings 3:12, 4:29-34 ect. Many in Christ’s ministry were gorgiven without water baptism 9 Mt. 9:1-7, 22, Mk.5:34, 10:52, Lk 7:48 , 17:19 , 18:9-14, 19: 1-9 etc…Men have been baptised inthe Holy Spirit before water baptism…Acts 9:17,10:44-48,11:14-18,15:7-11…Christ was baptixed in water without forgivveness of sins Mt. 3:15-17 It is a mere figure 1 Peter 3:21 and witness…1 John 5:6-10 but not held as essential to salvation 1 Cor. 1:13-24, 15: 1-5 , Rom1:16 , more in Acts, Eph., John, 1 John…Water is used in a fugurative sense of ssalvation John 4:14 , Isa. 12:3 of the spirit baptism… John 7:37-39, and of cleansingt by the Word of God…John 15:3, Eph. 5:26 Since men are cleansed and born again by the Word Jas.1:18, 1Peter 1:23 It is clear that being born of water means being born again by the Word of God. Long answer, and I hope it helps.

What must one do to be saved? Look at Ezek 36 starting at verse 25, this is the “water” that the Jewish leader would have thought of and it is the picture of salvation.

Then look at this, the purification of sin by water by god would have also went through his head.
Numbers 19:9-10 Now a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place, and the congregation of the sons of Israel shall keep it as water to remove impurity; it is purification from sin. 10 `The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.

You can read before and after those and it is quite interesting.

 

[SHW]

Baptism means to “immerse into” and you will not find any place in Scripture where infants are baptized nor the first 2-3oo years of church history. What ever Scripture you receive, just insert infant and that is how you will have it in Scripture. You must insert it into Scripture.

Baptism always represents an object/person going into the water or in many cases Christ; not water being poured on top of a person. Funny; I was just studying this subject last night.

If you read the places in Scripture and substitute the word “immersion” or “immersed” where you see the word baptized or baptism; it opens up new understanding and thought.

Perhaps you missed earlier posts which quoted some of the Early Church Fathers who lived in the first 200-300 years of Christianity.

Infants were indeed baptized. “Pouring” has always been an accepted method of baptizing.

Here are some examples:

The Didache

After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days (Didache 7:1 [ca. **A.D. 70]

).

Justin Martyr

As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father… and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (First Apology 61 A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus

He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus

Where there is no scarcity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether on a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available. Let them remove their clothing. Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

staycatholic.com/ecf_baptism.htm

So, since you believe that Baptism only means to “immerse into,” then were the people immersed into a literal fire when they were baptized by the Holy Spirit in what we call the Sacrament of Confirmation?

Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”