Where is Catholicism in the Bible?

[st_lucy]

As far as interpretations goes, the holy Spirit gives me understanding, but many things are common sense, also depending how much of the Word you read. You have to read the entire thing to really understand it, not just what other people tell you. That is rthe eason I don’t belong to any denomination is because even in America, where there should be religous freedom, there are too many people trying to make me believe like them.

You keep saying that the Holy Spirit gives YOU the understanding of the Holy Scripture. But YOUR understanding is very different than say mine. So one of us is wrong, right? So if you have a question who should you go to? Your friend who also has the Holy Spirit guiding him? Well, I know I can turn to the Church that Jesus **Himself **set up for me to turn to. You see the Church has not changed in 2000 years so I know that I can trust them to give me ONE answer and not ten thousand answers.

Jesus promised that He was going to send us the Holy Spirit to guide His Church. Now when you have so many different interpretation going on with all the interpretors saying that they are being guided by the Holy Spirit you need to stop and think. Someone is differently not being guided by the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit cannot contradict Himself.

So what should you do? You do some research and learn your history. Who was the first person who said so and so. I encourage you to do this research and see for yourself. Someone has obviously been misguiding you and now the ball is in your court.

I believe the Holy Spirit has guided you here to find out for yourself. So stick around and learn more. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Mommyof02green]

Where is Mary in the Trinity?

Allan, maybe you would like to read what Catholicism teaches about the Trinity.

After you read what Catholicism teaches about the Trinity, you can tell me where Mary is…

The Holy Trinity, especially the dogma of the Holy Trinity is talked about and described in paragraphs 232-267 of the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church)

Here is the link: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p2.htm

Yes, I know that it’s not the Bible. However, your question seems to imply that Catholic’s make Mary apart of the Trinity. Which is simply not true. So in order to see what Catholicism teaches about the Trinity, one would needs to read Catholic Literature.

That is why I’m suggesting that you read this part of the CCC. Paragraphs 232-267 of the CCC talk about God, and the dogma of the Holy Trinity. This would hopefully give you some insight into what Catholicism really teaches re: the Trinity.

If you disagree with my faith fine, but at least disagree with what I REALLY believe!
Not some fiction!

Thanks for taking the time to read what Catholicism teaches about the Trinity. Hopefully you also took the time to read the other links I gave earlier. Those links would also help non-Catholics see what the Catholic Church teaches,

Again, if you are going to disagree with my faith, fine disagree with what I **REALLY **believe!

:bible1:May God Bless You!:bible1:

 

[buffalo]

From what I know of world history the Catholic Church is not the same as it was when it started. It is perverted. Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, but the catholic church keeps getting more deceived. For example, in america we speak english, so why would anyone need to know latin. what is latin good for. How can you expect to save people, if they don’t know what you’re talking about.

Latin is the language of the church. Being a dead language it preserves the deposit of faith against changes in language meanings.

 

[Allan1972]

You keep saying that the Holy Spirit gives YOU the understanding of the Holy Scripture. But YOUR understanding is very different than say mine. So one of us is wrong, right? So if you have a question who should you go to? Your friend who also has the Holy Spirit guiding him? Well, I know I can turn to the Church that Jesus **Himself **set up for me to turn to. You see the Church has not changed in 2000 years so I know that I can trust them to give me ONE answer and not ten thousand answers.

Since you cay that the Church has not changed, I want you to answer this question before I discuss anything else with you lucy. Did they have a Hail Mary at the begining of the Catholic Church.

 

[Karin]

Since you cay that the Church has not changed, I want you to answer this question before I discuss anything else with you lucy. Did they have a Hail Mary at the begining of the Catholic Church.

How about you answer some of our questions before we all continue?

It would seem that you come here throwing your falsehoods out (our some un-named websites falsehoods) and we have answered them all…yes when we ask you questions you ignore them and post more lies about our religion…

 

[Allan1972]

1. I’ve realised now that Catholics think that the saints are already in heaven. If so, then why does this scripture say this?

"13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13
QUOTE]

It is talking about the second coming of Jesus and it says that the dead in christ shall rise, meaning they are to dead or asleep.

 

[Brendan]

it. I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t. She was the mother of Jesus.

So are you saying that Jesus is not God? I thought you said that you were a Christian?

 

[Mommyof02green]

It is talking about the second coming of Jesus and it says that the dead in christ shall rise, meaning they are to dead or asleep.

Q: Some groups, such as Christadelphians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists, claim that we are not conscious between the time of our death and our resurrection but that our souls either cease to exist or are asleep. They cite verses that picture death as a sleep (e.g. Dan. 12:2, 1 Cor. 15:51). How can we refute this?

A: These verses use what is known as phenomenological language, the language of appearances. Phenomenological language occurs when we describe something as it looks, irrespective of how it is. The classic example of phenomenological language is talk of the sun rising and setting. The sun appears to rise and set , but this motion is actually due to the rotation of the earth rather than to motion of the sun around the earth.

Verses that speak of the dead sleeping use phenomenological language. For example, Daniel 12:2 states, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” This image is of people getting up much as a sleeper rises in the morning. The sleep being discussed is phenomenological sleep, not literal sleep (Daniel is not talking about living people who sleep on the ground). Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds, enhancing the sleep analogy), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” In fact, this euphemism is common today.

There are two versions of the :soul sleep" theory.

The Jehovah’s Witness claims that the soul ceases to exist at death and then is re-created by God at the resurrection. If their theory were true and there were no soul which survives death, it is difficult to see why the re-created “you” is not just a copy of you. It may have all your memories, but it is hard to see why it is not just a copy. If God had created this copy while you still existed, the fact it is a copy rather than the real you would be obvious.

If it is a copy, that causes problems of justice. Because you ceased to exist, you–the real you–were never punished for your sins or rewarded for your good deeds; you simply ceased to exist. Similarly, the copy of you which was created on the Last Day is then punished or rewarded for things it never did.

Once one has distinguished between the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ view and the view that claims that our souls simply sleep between death and resurrection, one can go on to refute these ideas by using the Bible. The following verses apply to both versions of the doctrine.

In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?’”

Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist. The fact they are conscious is known because they cry out to God for vengeance. Unconscious people can’t do that. Thus conscious, disembodied souls exist.

In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Then I saw . . . the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Here again we have disembodied souls (they had been beheaded). John sees them coming to life to reign with Christ–hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Some scholars argue that this is a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one. Even if that were so, it would only strengthen the case for conscious, disembodied souls because, after having been beheaded, they would be reigning with Christ in heaven in a disembodied state.

source: catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9503qq.asp

 

[Allan1972]

How about you answer some of our questions before we all continue?

It would seem that you come here throwing your falsehoods out (our some un-named websites falsehoods) and we have answered them all…yes when we ask you questions you ignore them and post more lies about our religion…

just about all of my posts have answers to quesions. here is one right here.

Yes, the word and the holy spirit. It doesn’t say what books are or aren’t.

What lies have I said about your religion?

 

[Allan1972]

Latin is the language of the church. Being a dead language it preserves the deposit of faith against changes in language meanings.

When people say a language is dead I think they mean that no one uses it anymore.
And if english isn’t a good enough language, then why are we all using it then?

 

[Allan1972]

So are you saying that Jesus is not God? I thought you said that you were a Christian?

I am saying he’s not the Father.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Allan
Is Jesus God?

 

[Church_Militant]

I am saying he’s not the Father.

in spite of this? John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

 

[water]

Is this thread still on “Where is Catholicism in the Bible?” or what?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Show me proof that all of the other denominations deny they are the authors. Back up your statement.

Are you blind? I said Biblical Scholars not denomination!

 

[st_lucy]

Since you cay that the Church has not changed, I want you to answer this question before I discuss anything else with you lucy. Did they have a Hail Mary at the begining of the Catholic Church.

Well, of course they did. As I recall St Gabriel was the first to recite it you can read it in the Gospel of St Luke.

Now that wasn’t too hard.

Now Allan this my question to you. Do you know how the first Christan’s practiced their faith since they did not have a bible to go by until the third century? Because according to you if it is not in the bible than it is a false belief.

 

[Brendan]

I am saying he’s not the Father.

Is Jesus God? Or does your term “God” only apply to the Father?

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. I’ve realised now that Catholics think that the saints are already in heaven. If so, then why does this scripture say this?

Partly true but that’s not it.

The Catholic Church defines the Communion of Saints into three categories.

Church Militant: Living saints on earth (still alive not dead) who continue to fight a spiritual battle against the forces of the evil.

Saint Suffering: The souls of the dead, who pass away but are have committed sins that is not deadly. Their sins are being purged in purgatory.Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, “but only” (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or “yet so”) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

Saints Triumphant: Saints who dead in the state of grace and are now in union with God in Heaven.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

I don’t see it anywhere.

And if it’s not in the bible, its false doctrine. In the Bible, there is no mention of Pope, Bishop, or Mass, or most of things that Catholics talk about. Who was greater? Jesus or Peter. Who’s greater Jesus or the Pope? Who’s greater Jesus or Mary? Even Paul said for people to stop following Peter, Paul, or John, but to follow Jesus. Jesus didn’t say anything about Peter being the foundation of the Catholic Church, but the rock of God’s Church. I challenge Catholics to think about why they believe what they believe and try to back it up with the King James Version of the Bible.** Everything else is just false doctrine or heresy**.

Allan is right! Wait a minute. There’s no place about sola scriptura, either. Or 'Once saved always saved." Or that the KJV (based on faulty NT Greek manuscripts from the priest Erasmus) is the final authority in English of the Word of God.

Yikes.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Allan is right! Wait a minute. There’s no place about sola scriptura, either. Or 'Once saved always saved." Or that the KJV (based on faulty NT Greek manuscripts from the priest Erasmus) is the final authority in English of the Word of God.

Yikes.

Since Sola Scriptura is the final authority of all things, moral and faith, I should obey it in the strict sense.

I shall clone people or encourage my niece to have an abortion (she is of age)because abortion is not forbidden in the Bible explicitly. “Thou shall not kill”

The Bible didn’t say thou shall not kill infants. Cloning isn’t even mention.

The only Christian reference we got that is against abortion is the Did ache which states,

Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.

:dancing:

Source for the Didache: earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html