M
MyRdmrLvs
Guest
there are a few protestant doctrines that are new and are also argued over among denominations but the core doctrines are not new and are shared with our Catholic brothers.
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M
MyRdmrLvs
Guest
So the EO is under the authority of the pope?
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes, of course. Everyone eventually makes a personal decision about how they will practice their faith. In the case of most American Catholics, they do what you appear to have done, which is to reject the Apostolic faith that has been passed down to us, and embrace modern innovations that are somehow more personally fuliflling than the faith of the Apostles. I did this myself for a long time. I recognize that “I will worship the way I want” mentality.You do understand don’t you that for Catholics it is also what they think or believe in?
G
guanophore
Guest
Can you point me to where these core doctrines are listed in Scripture?
G
guanophore
Guest
Jesus left the care and feeding of His flock to the care of Peter, and Peter to his successor. All who are members of the One Flock are under the authority of the successor of Peter. The majority of them are revellious subjects.
L
Libertarian_FL
Guest
Nowhere. He never founded an historical church He founded a FAITH. The best events in the world was when the Holy Bible was translated and printed into the common languages of humanity. It ended the fraud that denominations and churches and their gatekeepers were necessary.
In the end there is the Holy Bible the Word and God, as it should be.
In the end there is the Holy Bible the Word and God, as it should be.
R
rinnie
Guest
Sure love, here it is. ONE:
It is Christ who through the Holy Spirit that make the Church one, I am sure you agree with me there. One Faith can recognize that the Church possesses these 4 properties from her divine source. THe Church is one in unity. There is only ONE God, ONE Holy Spirit so there can be only One Church. (the HS only leads us to ONE truth
)HOLY: The Church is Holy because Christ the Son of God who with the Father and the HS is hailed as Holy. God so loved the Church that he gave up himself with her as to sanctify her, he joined himself and his body and endowed her with the gift of the HS.
Through him and with him she becomes sanctifying.
CATHOLIC: The word catholic means universal in the sense of according ot the totality or in keep with the whole. It’s Catholic in a double sense. FIrst the CHurch is catholic because Christ is in her, Where there is Jesus there is the CC. ANd in her subsists the fullness of Christs body united with its head this implies that she receives from him the fullness of the means of salvation.
APOSTOLIC. Because it is founded on the Apostles 3 ways.
She was and remains built on the foundation of the Apostles, the witness chosen sent on the mission by Christ himself.
WIth the help of the HS dwelling in her the church keeps and hands on the teaching.
She continues to be taught, sanctified and guided by the Apostles until the return of Christ through their successors in the pasotral office: the college of bishopos, assisted by the Priests in union with the successor of Peter the Church’s supreme Pastor.
T
tweetymom
Guest
All you gave me was thought not scripturs.Sure love, here it is. ONE:
It is Christ who through the Holy Spirit that make the Church one, I am sure you agree with me there. One Faith can recognize that the Church possesses these 4 properties from her divine source. THe Church is one in unity. There is only ONE God, ONE Holy Spirit so there can be only One Church. (the HS only leads us to ONE truth
HOLY: The Church is Holy because Christ the Son of God who with the Father and the HS is hailed as Holy. God so loved the Church that he gave up himself with her as to sanctify her, he joined himself a his body and endowed her with the gift of the HS.
Through him and with him she becomes sanctifying.
CATHOLIC: The word catholic means universak in the sense of according ot the totality or in keep with the whole. It Catholic in a double sense. FIrst the CHurch is catholic because Christ is in her, Where there is Jesus there is the CC. ANd in her subsists the fullness of Christs body united with its head this implies that she receives from him the fullness of the means of salvation.
APOSTOLIC. Because it is founded on the Apostles 3 ways.
She was and remains buikd on the foundatio of the Apostles, the witness chosen sent on the mission by Christ himself.
WIth the help of the HS dwelling in her the church keeps and hands on the teaching.
She continues to be taught, sanctified and guided by the Apostles until the return of Christ through their successors in the pasotral office: the college of bishopos, assisted by the Priests in union with the successor of Peter the Church’s supreme Pastor.
R
rinnie
Guest
Oh tweets, okay I will I promise. But its in there I swear. I make take me a litttle while to give you exact quotes. I am pretty busy today. THe snow is melting and everyone in town need’s a haircut. But will get back I promise. Will try to find in between customers. Will be back I promise.
Anyone else in between would appreciate the help. So she does not have to wait.
G
guanophore
Guest
I can’t help you on this one, rinnie. I have to go with Tweety. You will not be able to find a statement in Scripture that defines the Church as One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. These four marks of the church, though defined during the NT era, were not published as such until the next century.Oh tweets, okay I will I promise. But its in there I swear. I make take me a litttle while to give you exact quotes. I am pretty busy today. THe snow is melting and everyone in town need’s a haircut. But will get back I promise. Will try to find in between customers. Will be back I promise.
Anyone else in between would appreciate the help. So she does not have to wait.
R
rinnie
Guest
That’s okay sweets, Here is one, I will be back with the rest.
John 10:16
John 17"17-23
Romans 12:5
Romans 15:5
Romans 16:17
1 cor 1:10
l cor 13:13
Ephesians There is ONE body, One Spirit, just as ONE hope is the goal of your calling by God. The Lord is ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, over all through all and within all.
Gotta go, will be back with more. (I am a fast cutter
)
S
schaick
Guest
elvisman has helped me realize why I am not Catholic and where I see the Catholic Church straying from the original church that Jesus is building.
1 Corinthians 11
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.
**MAINTAIN not add to the traditions I have passed on to you **which is exactly what the Catholic Church has added to the raditions.
2 Thessalonians 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Adopting of the Nicene, labeling the concept of the Trinity, etc. and putting it in writting allowed that tradtions mentioned in Thessalonians no longer needed to be passed word of mouth.
Every time for me it comes back to the documentation-proof. Maybe it is because I have spent the last 6-7 years defending Christianity
Look at Peter and Paul and how diverse they were. Look at the first Churches in Acts-diversity.
Our faith must be ONE, we are in the one body of Christ, but our celebration, our functions and our gifts can be diverse.
1 Corinthians 11
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.
**MAINTAIN not add to the traditions I have passed on to you **which is exactly what the Catholic Church has added to the raditions.
2 Thessalonians 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Adopting of the Nicene, labeling the concept of the Trinity, etc. and putting it in writting allowed that tradtions mentioned in Thessalonians no longer needed to be passed word of mouth.
Every time for me it comes back to the documentation-proof. Maybe it is because I have spent the last 6-7 years defending Christianity
Look at Peter and Paul and how diverse they were. Look at the first Churches in Acts-diversity.
Our faith must be ONE, we are in the one body of Christ, but our celebration, our functions and our gifts can be diverse.
E
elvisman
Guest
And therein lies the danger.
You accept him on your terms - not his.
E
elvisman
Guest
Not when it is in direct opposition to Scripture and Church authority.
E
elvisman
Guest
Sorry pal - but you’re wrong.
First of all - traditions are only wrong if they are in opposition to Scripture. This is what Jesus was telling the Pharisees when he condemned their “traditions of men” because they set themselves above the Mosaic Law.
**As for Nicaea and “labeling the concept of the Trinity”, as you put it - it was the response of the Church because of heresies that arose surrounding these concepts. **
**Most - if not ALL early Church councils were convened to combat heresies. that is why the Church - God’s supreme Authority on earth (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23). Perhaps a history lesson or two on **
R
rinnie
Guest
Cont:That’s okay sweets, Here is one, I will be back with the rest.
John 10:16
John 17"17-23
Romans 12:5
Romans 15:5
Romans 16:17
1 cor 1:10
l cor 13:13
Ephesians There is ONE body, One Spirit, just as ONE hope is the goal of your calling by God. The Lord is ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, over all through all and within all.
Gotta go, will be back with more. (I am a fast cutter
Phil. 22
Col. 3:15
St Cyprian (c. 250AD) God is one and Christ is one, and one is his Church and the faith is one, and his people welded together y the goue of concord into solid unity of body. Untiy cannot be rent asunder nor can the one body of the Church through the division of its structure be divided into separate pieces (on the un ity of the Church 23)
Be back
S
schaick
Guest
One of the first rules of interpreting Scrpture is placing it in context.That’s okay sweets, Here is one, I will be back with the rest.
John 10:16
John 17"17-23
Romans 12:5
Romans 15:5
Romans 16:17
1 cor 1:10
l cor 13:13
Ephesians There is ONE body, One Spirit, just as ONE hope is the goal of your calling by God. The Lord is ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, over all through all and within all.
Gotta go, will be back with more. (I am a fast cutter
Celebrating diversity:
**1 Corinthians **
14Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
Our one leader is Jesus alone, unity in our faith in Jesus:
John 10
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
John 17
17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
We must accept the diversity of our fellow believers in Christ:
Romans 15
5May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jewson behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written:
Anyone saying that all Christians are not in the one body of Christ:
Romans 16
17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.
S
schaick
Guest
You are saying 2 different things here:
Oposition would be a contradiction or something against the Word of GOD.
Then there are traditions man-made that are not against GOD, but if the man-made tradition is more important then GOD’s tradition there is a problem.
Matthew 15
5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it.** Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition**. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’"
S
schaick
Guest
I agree with this!St Cyprian (c. 250AD) God is one and Christ is one, and one is his Church and the faith is one, and his people welded together y the goue of concord into solid unity of body. Untiy cannot be rent asunder nor can the one body of the Church through the division of its structure be divided into separate pieces (on the un ity of the Church 23)
Be back
nor can the one body of the Church through the division of its structure be divided into separate pieces
I guess the bottom line is where Christian see unity in the one faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and diversity in celebrating that faith, Catholics simply see diversity.
C
Cursilista
Guest
Ok Tweets, Here you go. If you really are interested, then check out this website
scripturecatholic.com/index.html
It has scripture and early church fathers writings to back up every part of Catholic Teaching.
V. The Church is Visible and One
Matt. 5:14 - Jesus says a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, and this is in reference to the Church. The Church is not an invisible, ethereal, atmospheric presence, but a single, visible and universal body through the Eucharist. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation.
Matt. 12:25; Mark 3:25; Luke 11:17 - Jesus says a kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and will not stand. This describes Protestantism and the many thousands of denominations that continue to multiply each year.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus says, “I will build my ‘Church’ (not churches).” There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - Jesus gave the apostles binding and loosing authority. But this authority requires a visible Church because “binding and loosing” are visible acts. The Church cannot be invisible, or it cannot bind and loose.
John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.
John 17:11,21,23 - Jesus prays that His followers may be perfectly one as He is one with the Father. Jesus’ oneness with the Father is perfect. It can never be less. Thus, the oneness Jesus prays for cannot mean the varied divisions of Christianity that have resulted since the Protestant reformation. There is perfect oneness only in the Catholic Church.
John 17:9-26 - Jesus’ prayer, of course, is perfectly effective, as evidenced by the miraculous unity of the Catholic Church during her 2,000 year history.
John 17:21 - Jesus states that the visible unity of the Church would be a sign that He was sent by God. This is an extremely important verse. Jesus tells us that the unity of the Church is what bears witness to Him and the reality of who He is and what He came to do for us. There is only one Church that is universally united, and that is the Catholic Church. Only the unity of the Catholic Church truly bears witness to the reality that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father.
Rom. 15:5 - Paul says that we as Christians must live in harmony with one another. But this can only happen if there is one Church with one body of faith. This can only happen by the charity of the Holy Spirit who dwells within the Church.
Rom. 16:17 - Paul warns us to avoid those who create dissensions and difficulties. This includes those who break away from the Church and create one denomination after another. We need to avoid their teaching, and bring them back into the one fold of Christ.
1 Cor. 1:10- Paul prays for no dissensions and disagreements among Christians, being of the same mind and the same judgment. How can Protestant pastors say that they are all of the same mind and the same judgment on matters of faith and morals?
Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - again, the Church does not mean “invisible” unity, because Paul called it the body (not the soul) of Christ. Bodies are visible, and souls are invisible.
Eph. 4:11-14 - God gives members of the Church various gifts in order to attain to the unity of the faith. This unity is only found in the Catholic Church.
Eph. 4:3-5 - we are of one body, one Spirit, one faith and one baptism. This requires doctrinal unity, not 30,000 different denominations.
Eph. 5:25 - the Church is the Bride of Christ. Jesus has only one Bride, not many.
Eph. 5:30; Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 6:15 - we, as Christians, are one visible body in Christ, not many bodies, many denominations.
Phil. 1:27 - Paul commands that we stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the Gospel.
Phil. 2:2 - Paul prays that Christians be of the same mind, of one accord. Yet there are 30,000 different "Protest"ant denominations?
Col. 1:18 - Christ is the Head of the one body, the Church. He is not the Head of many bodies or many sects.
1 Tim. 6:4 - Paul warns about those who seek controversy and disputes about words. There must be a universal authority to appeal to who can trace its authority back to Christ.
2 Tim. 2:14 - do not dispute about words which only ruin the hearers. Two-thousand years of doctrinal unity is a sign of Christ’s Church.
2 Tim. 4:3 - this is a warning on following our own desires and not the teachings of God. It is not a cafeteria where we pick and choose. We must humble ourselves and accept all of Christ’s teachings which He gives us through His Church.
Rev. 7:9 - the heavenly kingdom is filled with those from every nation and from all tribes, peoples and tongues. This is “catholic,” which means universal.
1 Peter 3:8 - Peter charges us to have unity of spirit. This is impossible unless there is a central teaching authority given to us by God.
Gen. 12:2-3 - since Abram God said all the families of the earth shall be blessed. This family unity is fulfilled only in the Catholic Church.
Dan. 7:14 - Daniel prophesies that all peoples, nations and languages shall serve His kingdom. Again, this catholicity is only found in the Catholic Church.
1 Cor. 14:33 - God cannot be the author of the Protestant confusion. Only the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church claims and proves to be Christ’s Church.
and theres more.
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