where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[joe370]

Originally Posted by tweetymom View Post
Cool, because Jesus did find me and I do read the Bible.

Tweetymom, I am so glad that Jesus found you, and vice-versa. Tweety, why do you believe that the bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God, written by the very errant, fallible Apostles, and finally (out of a bevy of writings that were being circulated through out the Mediterranean area for the first 300 years of Christianity, as being the inspired word of God, but in the end, did not make the cut) - collected, selected, compiled and eventually codified by the very errant, fallible teachers/leaders of the CC, in the latter part of the 4th century?

 

[SteveVH]

The church yes not the CC.

tweetymom, there was no other Church for the first 1500 years. If not the CC, then which Church? C’mon, don’t re-write history to fit your preconceived notion. I mean this with all charity. If you are seeking truth, at least accept as truth that which we know is true and which can be backed up with historical evidence. It doesn’t much matter what we want to be true. It is only truth itself that matters.

 

[tweetymom]

Originally Posted by tweetymom View Post
Cool, because Jesus did find me and I do read the Bible.

Tweetymom, I am so glad that Jesus found you, and vice-versa. Tweety, why do you believe that the bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God, written by the very errant, fallible Apostles, and finally (out of a bevy of writings that were being circulated through out the Mediterranean area for the first 300 years of Christianity, as being the inspired word of God, but in the end, did not make the cut) - collected, selected, compiled and eventually codified by the very errant, fallible teachers/leaders of the CC, in the latter part of the 4th century?

Because in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. Why do you believe the CC interperted everything infallible?

 

[tweetymom]

tweetymom, there was no other Church for the first 1500 years. If not the CC, then which Church? C’mon, don’t re-write history to fit your preconceived notion. I mean this with all charity. If you are seeking truth, at least accept as truth that which we know is true and which can be backed up with historical evidence. It doesn’t much matter what we want to be true. It is only truth itself that matters.

I am not trying to rewrite anything. People were called Christians not Catholics in the beginning, and that is what I am. History isn’t always true and if you are happy believing what you hold to be the truth, God Bless

 

[Bill_Pick]

I belong to the church in my heart Jesus!

Do you ever answer any question like the denomination you belone to,it does have a name ,right.

 

[adrift]

Because in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. Why do you believe the CC interperted everything infallible?

Do you know what John meant by the Word?

 

[adrift]

I am not trying to rewrite anything. People were called Christians not Catholics in the beginning, and that is what I am. History isn’t always true and if you are happy believing what you hold to be the truth, God Bless

Yes the Church was called Christians than that name changed to Catholic but it was the same Church. The Catholic Church started at Pentecost where the followers began to be called Christians. It was not a name they called themselves but what others referred to them.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Later until the sad revolt. People only referred to it as the Church for there was only one. When this was no longer the case. We referred to as Catholic. Although this is not when the Church was first called Catholic. The Christians in Apostolic times belong to the same Catholic Church. The name changed but not the Church.

 

[rev_kevin]

The Catholic Church is the exact same Church that is refered to as the Christian CHurch in Acts. Are you saying the local Church of Antioch and the Church that Ignatius was Bishop of were not the same Christian Church. Prove it, I have showed you that it is and he is the first one who called the Christian Church Catholic.
Christian church is still in existance today so when he called it the Catholic church he started a different church. Are the same practices today as they were 2000 years ago?

I never said that THE RCC was a Man named Church. The RCC was started by Jesus Christ and founded on Peter.Then how did it get its name, from a man not Jesus therefore it is a man named church.

Infalibility belongs in a special way to the Pope as head of the bishops Matt 16:17-19 John 21:15-17There is not infallibility in Matt. 16:17-19 if this was true then in verse 23 Jesus would not have called Peter Satan and told him he is seeing things merely from a human point of view, not God’s. This shows he is fallible even after you claim he was infallible in verses 17-19 Did he go from infallible to fallible. So one can go back and forth infallible, fallible, infallible, fallible and so on.

The infalibility of the Pope is not a doctrine that sudden appeared in Church teaching it was implicit in the Early Church. THe doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts John 21:15 After breakfeast Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John do you love me more then these?” Where is the infallible here?
Luke 22:32But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strenghten and build up your brothers." I see Jesus praying for a fallible Peter here.
Matt 16:18 “Now I say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church and the powers of hell will not conquer it.” Peter is to buind upon the teachings of Jesus whi is the church, this does not say he is infallible

No one ever said Peter or the Pope had any power on their own. When the Pope and Peter are talking with the Power of the Holy Spirit which was given to them by God they are infallilble. So fallible and infallible can be turned on and off light a light?

Jesus gave the power of the Church to Peter and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to guide them into all the turth. That mandate and promise guarantee tha the Church willl never fall away from his teachings Matt 16:18 1 Tim 3:15 even if individual Catholics might.Where do you see the Holy Spirit guiding them. It a letter so they will know how peopls must conduct themselves in the household of God. Nothing more.

That is the promise we have from God.

No one ever said that they could not have sin,or everything they may have thought on their own was infallible. I said and I will repeat when they speak in the seat of Peter they cannot be wrong. It is the teaching of the Holy Spirit not them.

Are you really a Rev Kev. Because if you are, you seem to be so full of anger. It is very hard to believe if you are. I will pray for you.

Where do you see the anger. Is it because I disagree with you. I’m not a angry person but at times like all of us can be I can be a angry person and there is nothing wrong with it, even God and Jesus got angry.

You asked me several questions and I answered all of them but you only responded to one of my answers which was about Christ being the church.

 

[SteveVH]

I am not trying to rewrite anything. People were called Christians not Catholics in the beginning, and that is what I am. History isn’t always true and if you are happy believing what you hold to be the truth, God Bless

This isn’t about being happy with what we believe. Hopefully it is about seeking truth. The term “Catholic” came into being in the third century and was coined by a Pope. I know of no other religion then or since who has Popes. So no matter what it was called at a particular time, it was still the same Church with the same structure, doctrines and liturgies, and it is the Catholic Church.

 

[tweetymom]

Do you know what John meant by the Word?

Of course, Jesus

 

[rev_kevin]

Where do you get your so-called "facts"?
The Church was never named “The Christian Church” in the first century. It was always the Catholic Church. When Ignatius of Antioch writes to the Smyrnaeans at the beginning of the second century - it is alread a well-established name. Just as when he speaks of the Holy Eucharist - it is already a well-established belief.

Acts 11:26 tells us that disciples were first called “Christians”. History tells us that this was almost a derogatory term to identify these early “rabble-rousers”.

I got this from here in the Catholic Answeres Forums from a Roman Catholic named rinnie from post 245.
How can one Catholic say one thing and another say something different. And you want us to believe that the doctrine is infallible when you can’t even agree about the first name of the church.

 

[rev_kevin]

Just a quick thought I had while I was reading through this thread. At one point RevKevin said “hands were laid on me” in reply to another post and it quickly made think of this:

The difference between “pretend” and “the real deal”

Children making mudpies (pretending of the laying of hands) and Adults making a real pie that you can actually eat (the real laying of hands).

Ok that’s all I wanted to say because I really don’t have the mental fortitude to participate fully in this discussion other than the odd thought here and there.

The laying of the hands on me were real not pretend. I take this as a insult. Just because its not that of the Catholic faith does not make it pretend. I am a ordained minister of God no less or no more then a priest is. I have all the same powers they have and these powers that we both have come from God. But I you don’t want to accept that then so be it. God knows I right.

 

[Cursilista]

The use of the word Catholic which in Latin means Universal was first used closer to the yr AD 110

II. The Church is called “Catholic”
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.” Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).

“…to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline…one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul’s name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church…But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.” The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).

“[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180

 

[tweetymom]

The laying of the hands on me were real not pretend. I take this as a insult. Just because its not that of the Catholic faith does not make it pretend. I am a ordained minister of God no less or no more then a priest is. I have all the same powers they have and these powers that we both have come from God. But I you don’t want to accept that then so be it. God knows I right.

Sorry for the insult.We know that God called you, and yes you do have power.

 

[rev_kevin]

Sorry for the insult.We know that God called you, and yes you do have power.

Tweetymom, you have nothing to be sorry for. Don’t appolize for the ignorance of others. I enjoy talking to you and discussing Christian faith with you. I wish more here would be like you. God Bless.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The laying of the hands on me were real not pretend. I take this as a insult. Just because its not that of the Catholic faith does not make it pretend. I am a ordained minister of God no less or no more then a priest is. I have all the same powers they have and these powers that we both have come from God. But I you don’t want to accept that then so be it. God knows I right.

Rev
If you dont want to accept the Truth that is fine. whoever laid hands on you have no authority to do so. who laid the hands on the one who laid hands on you? if you go backwards, you will find out that whoever it is had no authority to do so. it is self made ordination. Jesus commanded the Apostles who commanded others and it is an unbroken succession line. you are going against God’s plan.

but that is ok. because mormons do the same and so do all other non Catholics. that is not what God planned. that is a man made thing.

take St Paul for example, when Jesus appeared to him, he didnt go out and made his own church, he obeyed Christ and sought the Church. he went to see the Apostles.

** To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it St Ignatious fo Loyola. **

 

[tweetymom]

Rev
If you dont want to accept the Truth that is fine. whoever laid hands on you have no authority to do so. who laid the hands on the one who laid hands on you? if you go backwards, you will find out that whoever it is had no authority to do so. it is self made ordination. Jesus commanded the Apostles who commanded others and it is an unbroken succession line. you are going against God’s plan.

but that is ok. because mormons do the same and so do all other non Catholics. that is not what God planned. that is a man made thing.

take St Paul for example, when Jesus appeared to him, he didnt go out and made his own church, he obeyed Christ and sought the Church. he went to see the Apostles.

** To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it St Ignatious fo Loyola. **

Your last statement sounds a lot of brainwashing.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

It does matter what religion you belong.

would say that muslins have the Truth? how about budhism? hinduism?

isnt true religion caring for widows and orphans?

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev
If you dont want to accept the Truth that is fine. whoever laid hands on you have no authority to do so. who laid the hands on the one who laid hands on you? if you go backwards, you will find out that whoever it is had no authority to do so. it is self made ordination. Jesus commanded the Apostles who commanded others and it is an unbroken succession line. you are going against God’s plan.

but that is ok. because mormons do the same and so do all other non Catholics. that is not what God planned. that is a man made thing.

take St Paul for example, when Jesus appeared to him, he didnt go out and made his own church, he obeyed Christ and sought the Church. he went to see the Apostles.

** To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it St Ignatious fo Loyola. **

I think tweetymom summed it up pretty good. But I don’t need your approval or you telling me about the truth. I don’t need the authority of the CC. This authority comes from God and God alone. What is God’s plan? If bringing people to God is against he plan then I quess I’m guilty. I guess God don’t want me to do that because its only reserved for the CC. I quess when he said go and make disciples of men he meant only the CC can do that. I will continue to do God’s plan and his will. because he gave me the authority to do so. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

And Christ gave ALL authority (on earth AND in heaven) to his Church (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23).
You always start off nice and trong, but you finish weak . . .

So if the pope has the same apostolic authority as Peter then we should expect him to be able to do some of the same miracles that Peter and Paul could do. there should be people lining up to have their sight restored and illness cured, this would show the world that He alone has that authority.