where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[Carlan]

The thread reads, Where is the historical church founded by jesus christ.

Jesus sent his apostles to to the corners of the world to establish his church.

These are some of the churches that the apostles founded. (Sorry the list is not complete, and please correct me if there is some error or if you can, add to this list)

The amazing thing about this is that you had twelve men who went to such different lands and cultures and were each able to establish churches in these lands that had the same sacrements and liturgy (albeit with maybe a few deviations). On the whole, all of these churches were of one faith and belief and one understanding. They still exist to this day. More Apostles went towards the east to establish the church than to the west. We sometimes overlook the east, but to me, they are proof positive that The catholic church is the one true church. These churches were established shortly after the death of jesus from the yrs 33 AD onward. How could 12 different mere men, all get it right, if they were not led by christ through the holy spirit.

All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.

A List of the churches followed by the Apostle who founded those churches

Rome: Sts Peter and Paul
Constantinople: St. Andrew
Antioch: St. Peter
Alexandria: St. Mark
Jerusalem: St. James
Moscow: St. Andrew (claimed through Constantinople)
Georgia: St. Andrew
Ethiopia: St. Mark
East Antioch: Saint Thomas
Armenian: Bartholemew and Thaddeus.
West Syriac: St. Peter
India: St. Thomas
Spain: St. James
Ukrainian: St. Andrew

Now for our protesting brothers in christ. Refute that this church is not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.

Better yet, show that your church is.

Remember the apostles didnt go forth with a bible in their hands and said here just follow this book. They had Gods words written in their hearts. They went forth and established the same maner of worship, teaching, and liturgy in foriegn lands. They did so with the knowledge of what jesus wanted his church to be.

The CC and EO have worked so hard for 2000 yrs to keep those traditions established by the apostles themselves from the changes of man. They did not allow the heretical to alter the church over the centuries. They have stood the test of time.

Excellent Post Cursilists, thank you so much for posting along with the other Catholics in this thread.
I do find it so hard to understand why some of the flock stop short of the full revealed Truth. I wonder what they think they will lose by going back to the beginning through Church History. Today we have so many past Protestant Apologists and ministers who have done so and , have discovered the fullness of what Christ wanted for us. They are now teaching the whole truth of revelation to those willing to open up closed minds.Peace and God bless, Carlan

 

[Matariel]

I would be very interested in where you found that in scripture?

I think his point was that the Church is one and always unified. That is certainly in the Bible. Christ only founded one Church, the Catholic Church— the same Church we profess in the Apostle’s Creed, which was written in the same Nicene Council that dogmatically defined the Catholic Doctrine of the Trinity you now believe in.

 

[Matariel]

All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.

Good point, even the local ancient churches that separated from the unity of the one Catholic Church still retained all these doctrines, because they were all apostolic and not in contention. It was only later that the Protestants threw out these apostolic doctrines and claimed a new doctrine foreign to the faith: Sola Scriptura.

 

[elvisman]

No the rock is the TRUTH of Peter’s statement.

Can you show me WHERE it says that in Scripture?

Can you back it up with quotes from the Early Church Fathers?
I can back up the Catholic position with both.

 

[Tmaque]

No the rock is the TRUTH of Peter’s statement.

To make this claim does violence to the text. Please read Matthew 16:18 in context.

Jesus changed Peter’s name from Simon bar Jonah to Rock (Petros in Greek). Jesus famous words here were:

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Rock, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.

Jesus spoke in Aramaic, so he would have said "you are Kephas, and on this kephas I will build my Church. This is why you can read where Paul calls Peter, “Kephas”.

It’s right there if one will be honest with oneself.

 

[Dokimas]

Can you show me WHERE it says that in Scripture?

**Can you back it up with quotes **from the Early Church Fathers?
I can back up the Catholic position with both.

Two different Greek words for Peter and Rock.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

MYRD while I thank you for you kind response I must say one thing, Catholic’s have always and will always read the bible. The difference between Catholic’s and Protestants is this, Catholic are taught that if you are going to read the bible and then interpret it for what you think it is, instead of what it really is, it is better to not read it at all. Because the message that Christ is trying to get across to you is not getting there.

Let me explain:

The scripture MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME.

I have had thousands of protestants say to me, yes God has forsaken Jesus. I am like huh

Now If you read in the bible you will see that was a message for the Jews. Who knew scripture better than the Jews. Actually only the Jews at that time knew what Jesus was saying. It was really Jesus saying look what you did to me. If you read that scripture you can see that a light went off in their heads. That scripture continues to show them he fulfilled scripture. Everything they did to him was written before it happened.

Do you see how easy scripture that is written in black and white and seems so plain, but means nothing on the words that were said? That is what the Church teaches us. Don’t read scripture out of context and then run with it. Understand what it means, not what it says. But yes Catholic’s do know thier scripture, and we do not argue and fight over who is right and who is wrong. Because we have the Advocate the HS to lead us into all truth. So we obey and accept the authority given to the Pope and Bishops to lead us to the truth. Because we want Gods truth not what we think truth is.

I don’t know how anyone could explain that any better!
Great post and thanks…

Matthew

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

The thread reads, Where is the historical church founded by jesus christ.

Jesus sent his apostles to to the corners of the world to establish his church.

These are some of the churches that the apostles founded. (Sorry the list is not complete, and please correct me if there is some error or if you can, add to this list)

The amazing thing about this is that you had twelve men who went to such different lands and cultures and were each able to establish churches in these lands that had the same sacrements and liturgy (albeit with maybe a few deviations). On the whole, all of these churches were of one faith and belief and one understanding. They still exist to this day. More Apostles went towards the east to establish the church than to the west. We sometimes overlook the east, but to me, they are proof positive that The catholic church is the one true church. These churches were established shortly after the death of jesus from the yrs 33 AD onward. How could 12 different mere men, all get it right, if they were not led by christ through the holy spirit.

All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.

A List of the churches followed by the Apostle who founded those churches

Rome: Sts Peter and Paul
Constantinople: St. Andrew
Antioch: St. Peter
Alexandria: St. Mark
Jerusalem: St. James
Moscow: St. Andrew (claimed through Constantinople)
Georgia: St. Andrew
Ethiopia: St. Mark
East Antioch: Saint Thomas
Armenian: Bartholemew and Thaddeus.
West Syriac: St. Peter
India: St. Thomas
Spain: St. James
Ukrainian: St. Andrew

Now for our protesting brothers in christ. Refute that this church is not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.

Better yet, show that your church is.

Remember the apostles didnt go forth with a bible in their hands and said here just follow this book. They had Gods words written in their hearts. They went forth and established the same maner of worship, teaching, and liturgy in foriegn lands. They did so with the knowledge of what jesus wanted his church to be.

The CC and EO have worked so hard for 2000 yrs to keep those traditions established by the apostles themselves from the changes of man. They did not allow the heretical to alter the church over the centuries. They have stood the test of time.

It’s amazing how some people refuse to believe history! Or maybe the truth is hard to swallow because it will expose the true church that christ founded!
That was a great post… Thanks.

Matthew

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Actually I have read the whole Catholic Catachism, maybe 10 years ago.

I do profess in one faith with Catholics [SIGN]until they [/SIGN]start professing things that are unbiblical then I need to stop.

But I should say if you need all of what comes to you with a Catholic Church membership to believe in Jesus then who am I to be a stumbling block?

1 Corinthians 8
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

GOD Bless!

We do not go by the teaching’s of what people that are Catholic say. We go by the teaching’s of the Catholic Church. Big difference. People who are Catholic have no more power from the HS to interpret scripture then a Protestant would.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Probably posted before, but I figure since we’re going in circles, might as well be posted again.

Thessalonians 2 Chapter 2
St Paul writes to the Thessalonians

13 But we must always thank God for you, brothers whom the Lord loves, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved by the Spirit who makes us holy and by faith in the truth.
14 Through our gospel he called you to this so that you should claim as your own the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Stand firm, then, brothers, and keep the traditions that we taught you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

[rev_kevin]

You are partially correct. You err when you speak of the “Inquisition” as if it were one. There were many the most famous was the Spanish Inquisition. People preferred the Inquisition to regular courts because they were treated more fairly. You say the amount was established? By Whom?. My understanding was that the number was greatly exaggerated and the number was less than 300.

I know there are many more, I was making a point. The established number is from all the inquisitions combined. Where do you get your number.

 

[rev_kevin]

What in the world are you taking about. You first blame the RCC which is Jesus Christ, now you are blaming the Pope. Tell me Rev Kev where have I or anyone on this thread ever said that the Pope is the Living Christ, Where has it been stated that the Pope is the CC? Where? Where has anyone ever stated that any Pope in history has replaced themself with Jesus Christ and are sinless and perfect? If you read history you will see that the RCC was part of the inquistition. If you read history you will see that some Popes started it. I never said that the Pope is the living God. I never stated that the Pope is the CC but he is the head of the CC. I never said the the Pople replaced themselves with Jesus Christ and aare sineless and perfect. I have stated the the Pope is fallible and all men are sinners. Don’t put words in my mouth.

First you blame the Aposltes for lying to us, then you blame Jesus for killing inocent people, now you are on the Pope’s. The CC has never been nor will ever be led by the decisions of any Pope or Bishops, All teaching comes from Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.If your read my post I said it was plausible that they may have. I never blamed Jesus for killing inocent people where did you get that one. As far as the Popes read history and I never mentioned Bishops. Get your wording correct and stop putting words in my mouth to make your point seem better

If you are really a Rev, I can see now why all of the other faiths truly hate us. With the lies you have just spread on this thread, you are impossible.Prove me wrong.

Now you turn around and blame the CC for mistakes of men. I suppose everything that I do because I am Catholic is The Sin of Jesus Christ too, right. Why not, you blame everything that any person who was Catholic did wrong on Jesus. You don’t accuse the people of the Church responsible, you hold Jesus responsible for every single sin that man did and used his name. The more that you write the more confused I can see that you are. I thank God more and more everyday for leaving me the Church that is led through the Holy Spirit to guide me. Because if you are a preacher I could be following these lies you spread and believe that you are the true Church. I thank God for that grace that he has given me. And I pray for anyone who is subjected to hearing what you have said here about the RCC the Living Christ, and his APostles who gave up thier life to spread the true word, not lies that you accuse them of.

Is not the CC made up of men. Are men fallible. I don’t blame everything on the CC I respect the CC and have said it many times here and on other threads. Don’t use Jesus to make your point by putting words in my mouth. I never heald Jesus responsible for every single sin that man did in his name, Where did you come up with that lie about what I said. Not confussed just wondering if things are possible. Where did I say I was the true Chruch. I never said that stop putting words in my mouth I said that the true church is Jesus Christ himself. I did not accuse them of lies, I said the may had streatched the truth and I also said that they can be plausible. Do you know what plausible means.

 

[Cursilista]

Rev Kevin,

The thread at hand is " Where is the historical church founded by Jesus christ"

Please respond to my thread #741, it was meant for you.
Please explain how all the apostles were able to go to differnt parts of the world and create the same church.
Did they all plausibly make the same mistake.

 

[Cursilista]

Rev Kevin Why wont you respond to my post #741

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev Kevin,

The thread at hand is " Where is the historical church founded by Jesus christ"

Please respond to my thread #741, it was meant for you.
Please explain how all the apostles were able to go to differnt parts of the world and create the same church.They went out and spread the teachings of Christ. They were all taught the same by Christ thats how the were able to go to different parts of the world and create the same church but the church is Jesus Christ himself. When the went out to spread the teachings of Christ there was no church that was named Catholic.
Did they all plausibly make the same mistake.

As far a them starting one single church which is the teachings of Jesus Christ, no. But as time went on others could have made mistakes. See we are talking about the early Church fathers not the first Church fathers. So is it possible that the early Church fathers made mistakes, sure its possible.

 

[rev_kevin]

The thread reads, Where is the historical church founded by jesus christ.

Jesus sent his apostles to to the corners of the world to establish his church.

These are some of the churches that the apostles founded. (Sorry the list is not complete, and please correct me if there is some error or if you can, add to this list)

The amazing thing about this is that you had twelve men who went to such different lands and cultures and were each able to establish churches in these lands that had the same sacrements and liturgy (albeit with maybe a few deviations). On the whole, all of these churches were of one faith and belief and one understanding. They still exist to this day. More Apostles went towards the east to establish the church than to the west. We sometimes overlook the east, but to me, they are proof positive that The catholic church is the one true church. These churches were established shortly after the death of jesus from the yrs 33 AD onward. How could 12 different mere men, all get it right, if they were not led by christ through the holy spirit.

All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.

A List of the churches followed by the Apostle who founded those churches

Rome: Sts Peter and Paul
Constantinople: St. Andrew
Antioch: St. Peter
Alexandria: St. Mark
Jerusalem: St. James
Moscow: St. Andrew (claimed through Constantinople)
Georgia: St. Andrew
Ethiopia: St. Mark
East Antioch: Saint Thomas
Armenian: Bartholemew and Thaddeus.
West Syriac: St. Peter
India: St. Thomas
Spain: St. James
Ukrainian: St. Andrew

Now for our protesting brothers in christ. Refute that this church is not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.

Better yet, show that your church is.

Remember the apostles didnt go forth with a bible in their hands and said here just follow this book. They had Gods words written in their hearts. They went forth and established the same maner of worship, teaching, and liturgy in foriegn lands. They did so with the knowledge of what jesus wanted his church to be.

The CC and EO have worked so hard for 2000 yrs to keep those traditions established by the apostles themselves from the changes of man. They did not allow the heretical to alter the church over the centuries. They have stood the test of time.

:clapping: I have heard this time and time again. I don’t believe all of what the CC teaches. If the CC was meant to be the only church, why does he allow other denominations that praise and worship him? The one church is Jesus Christ himself. I don’t think God really cares if we worship like the CC does or like other denominations do, as long as we are one with Christ and that don’t mean one church, I don’t believe Christ said we need to be one with him only if you belong to the CC. There I responded.

 

[elvisman]

Two different Greek words for Peter and Rock.

**Would you care to elaborate? **

What are the words used here and what language was Jesus speaking in?

---

Finally - how does this relate to the Greek transliteration Paul uses in his letters when he speaks about Peter?

I eagerly await your expert liguistic response.

 

[elvisman]

:clapping: I have heard this time and time again. I don’t believe all of what the CC teaches. If the CC was meant to be the only church, why does he allow other denominations that praise and worship him? The one church is Jesus Christ himself. I don’t think God really cares if we worship like the CC does or like other denominations do, as long as we are one with Christ and that don’t mean one church, I don’t believe Christ said we need to be one with him only if you belong to the CC. There I responded now stop begging me to respond to your post.

Your post is very telling of the chaos and constant splintering of the tens of thousands of Protestant sects.

Many of your sentences thoughts begin with I think or I don’t think/believe.

It doesn’t matter what Rev Kevin thinks or believes about anything - the TRUTH is all that matters.
You see - you DO need to belong to his ONE Body.
We ALL DO need to worship the same way because we are, as Paul says, *"… one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; *one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:4-6).

Paul goes on to say:
1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".

---

---

2 Thess. 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

2 Tim. 12:14
***"***Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us."

Finally - at the Last Supper, Jesus fervently prayed to his Father in heaven:
***"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, ****so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. *
*And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, *I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me" (John 17:20-23).

---

In short - God DOES care about how we worship and DOES want us to worship alike.

 

[Cursilista]

They went out and spread the teachings of Christ. They were all taught the same by Christ thats how the were able to go to different parts of the world and create the same church but the church is Jesus Christ himself. When the went out to spread the teachings of Christ there was no church that was named Catholic.

They created the historical church founded by jesus christ. They were one church all practicing their faith in the same way. The term Catholic means in Latin , Universal or all together, and was 1st used to describe all the churches started by the apostles before the yr 100 AD. It is what others refered to the church as and what the members refered to the church as. The use of the term is not valid because Jesus didnt say go start the Catholic Church by name. He did say he wanted his church to be universal meaning he wanted us to be one of the same beliefs and practices and we are. I believe somewhere in your learning you were taught to think that the word catholic is a four letter word.

You say that jesus is the church. I dont know what you mean by that, so we dont count. only 1 member of the church only jesus? Come on Rev, the church is the community of believers. Jesus is the high priest, the founder, the head of his church.

As a Baptist you read the bible, you know jesus sends his apostles to start his church on earth. I pointed out some of those churches. If you choose not to follow one of those churches that is your decision. I know it must be hard to not see the Baptist Church on that list. The Baptist Church was not started till 1605 by John Smyth in Amsterdam. Im not saying that there arent some good plp in the Baptist church or that they dont have some truths but they are not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[rev_kevin]

Your post is very telling of the chaos and constant splintering of the tens of thousands of Protestant sects.

Many of your sentences thoughts begin with I think or I don’t think/believe.Does it bother you.

It doesn’t matter what Rev Kevin thinks or believes about anything - the TRUTH is all that matters.I don’t care if you care what I believe or what I think. You are but a speck in my eye and a pain in my rear.
You see - you DO need to belong to his ONE Body.I do belong to his body, and I don’t care if you believe it or not.
We ALL DO need to worship the same way because we are, as Paul says, "… one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:4-6).

Paul goes on to say:
1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".

---

---

2 Thess. 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

2 Tim. 12:14
***"***Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us."

**Finally **- at the Last Supper, Jesus fervently prayed to his Father in heaven:
***“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, ***so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me” (John 17:20-23).

---

**In short - God DOES **care about how we worship and DOES want us to worship alike.

Well guess what. I will worship him anyway I please.
.