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larkin31
Guest
His question was, Are they “still a part” of the body. There is not implication of “full” in the word “part.” Your answer, and I have read them both, is actually a “yes” with the caveat “but not completely a part.”
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Dokimas
Guest
The Bible teaches Jesus is God; the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God. It doesn’t teach Mary was immaculately conceived. To understand IC from the Luke 1:28 is quite a stretch; it’s also not good to make a doctrine around one verse (especially when that one verse doesn’t really say what you’re reading into it.)
We all have grace in the past and on into the present. As you know we aren’t immaculately conceived. It’s what we do with it that matters. I like the definition of grace that says, ‘getting something we don’t deserve at the hand of God’.
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schaick
Guest
What of Sacred Catholic tradition about Jesus do Christians NOT have that only the Catholic Church has?
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larkin31
Guest
What do you mean? What is the consequence of not having what you call a “valid sacramental communion”? Do you claim that there is no communion with God’s spirit or Grace in any church but a Catholic one?
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Dokimas
Guest
Which of the NT writers or disciples were martyred for believing transubstanciation? I’ve never seen that in the Bible.
I doubt anyone was put to death for believing the bread became Human flesh and the wine became Human Blood. They may have been laughed at by those who did not understand the idea of Communion, but martyred, I highly doubt it. They were martyred for believing in Jesus and preaching Him to be God, died for sins and raised from the dead.
Jesus told us what the purpose of Communion was: ‘in remembrance of Me.’ The means it was metaphorical.
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guanophore
Guest
I fell in with some Southern Baptists who convinced me the Catholic Church was the whore of Babylon.
It does me too. I heard that one here on CAF.
I would much prefer that Catholics who espouse non-Catholic views do so out of ignorance. It is much easier to address than rebellion.
It was my separated brethren that taught me how to read and study the Scripture. I spent three years in a Protestant Seminary, trying to figure out what denomination was right for me.
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Dokimas
Guest
I’ll listen if you want to explain. Thank you.
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guanophore
Guest
Well, I guess the HS ended up falling down on the job, because the entire early Church up through the Reformation1500 years later understood Peter to be the Rock.
I think if you are honest about looking at the very few times God changes someone’s name in scripture, and the impact it has on their identity and mission, you will realize that Jesus meant what He said. He grafted Peter into Himself, and made him rocky. He laid him into the foundation of the Church, right next to Himself, as the cornerstone. Christ as Rock, Peter as Rock, and his confession of faith as Rock are all seamlessly joined.
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guanophore
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Tweety, can you explain how this worked?Well it is a funny thing my grandmother had to pay for indulgences.
One of the Reforms made at the council of Trent was a discontinuation of accepting offering of money or material goods for an indulgence. That change was made to prevent the abuses that were major factors in the Reformation.
No on “has to pay for indulgences”. They can only be voluntary, and people can only elect to participate. That is why I am curious about what happened to your grandmother.
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adrift
Guest
As welll as you:bowdown:
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guanophore
Guest
Oh, I agree! The passage is only a small reflection of the Apostolic teaching, as is the parallel in Luke with the Ark of the Covenant, and the image in Rev. This is a doctrine that is found majorily in Sacred Tradition. Like the doctrine of the hypostatic union, I think the scripture is unsufficient to define it thoroughly. The choice of Sunday to observe the day of rest is similar. Just not enough biblical direction to come down on either side. In fact, I would say that scripture favors the Seventh day as the Sabbath, a position that has been vigorously defended here by many Sabbatarians.
indeed, and the Immaculate Conception is a good example of that!
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guanophore
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adrift
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Well it is a funny thing my grandmother had to pay for indulgences.
Don’t be to hard on Tweety. I doubt if she could even tell you what an indulgence is. .She is probably confusing a stipend for Mass for an indulgence. She is quite unfamiliar with anything out of the scope of her limited bible study and she has no desire to learn anything new.
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adrift
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adrift
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We became full of grace at our Baptism. Not all was taught in the Bible. Jesus said to preach. I see no where that He said write it down. It is not a stretch. Perhaps you do not see it but you should since you quoted the scripture that correctly says what the grace was. It is only used twice and both times has the same meaning. But we digress this is not about Mary but where is the Church that Jesus established that He said would not fail Show me the trail from Jesus to now.
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guanophore
Guest
The Bible makes no attempt to document the fate of the Apostles.
You have some interesting discoveries to make about your family history, Doki.
One of the criticisms of the early Christians was “they eat their God, and drown their infants”.
Not so much, really, they were often accused of atheism, treason and sedition, because they would not embrace the Pantheon of Gods, and confess the Emperor as God.
**Jesus told us what the purpose of Communion was: ‘in remembrance of Me.’ The means it was metaphorical.**
I think you need to study up on the meaning of the amanesis Doki. It is the fulfillment of the Passover, Remember that the Passover is an enacted rememberance, where real flesh is consumed.
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adrift
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He said more than that He said This IS my Body This IS my Blood. No metaphor there. If I say this is my piano, play it in rememberance of me. There is no metaphor. The meteaphor was invented in order to reconcile a “hard teaching” which many walked away from Jesus.
The early Christians were accused of cannabalism. If they didn’t believe in the Real Presence, that charge would not have been leveled.
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larkin31
Guest
This is why I asked “so”? Your point here is that non-Catholics do not partake in Catholic mass rituals. My answer is, “Well, of course not. By definition”. And then I add, “What difference to God or the process of communing with God’s spirit or receiving his grace does that make?” and your reply seems to suggest a vague degree of “Some.” That is the safe answer, is it not, because otherwise you have to presume to speak for God and the extent of God’s grace and that, I imagine, could well be a sin, or at least quite suspect theologically. Without a direct comment on this scripturally (and this has already been covered here), it is pretty hard to say that other Christians partaking in a Eucharist in remembrance of Jesus and in the manner and spirit in which he instructed the apostles would be rejected by God. Every time I partook in Protestant church Jesus’s exact words were repeated. Nothing added, nothing subtracted.
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adrift
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I don’t know what to explain. I thought it obvious. When people are on fire for their belief does not mean that they are any of the things listed above. When you accuse others you fall into being that which your accusations are. See Tweetymom. She couldn’t resist a stab at me. Because she doesn’t like what I say to her. I saw the same with your disagreement. I don’t really believe either of you are the above but the accusation is there not because it is true but because he is a fire with the love of his Church just as you are a fire. Talk about what he says not how. If you find him offensive, put him on ignore. I am sorry for the snipe.
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larkin31
Guest
Both parties misunderstood in this situation; both parties were too caught up in literalism and extremism. No one tasted blood or flesh.
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