Where was God when my wife died

[inocente]

inocente, I’m so sorry for your loss. When your life is bound up in love with someone and they are torn away so suddenly there are lots of jagged edges to heal.

25 years ago I had a stillborn son and part of my shock was why God allowed this to happen to me because I had made a concerted effort all my life to be a good Catholic girl, avoiding sin and being devoted. It lead me to have a great anger at Him and for the only time in my life I stopped going to Mass for 6 months. I was very defiant too. I felt like I was hurting Him back by not going.

During that time I sat in my kitchen and began to read the Bible from the beginning trying to find answers. It took me 4 months of hours and hours every day reading. I had to skim read some of the books. I don’t think it was a good theological exercise but it did become obvious to me that people have been shaking their fist at God and asking this same question since day dot. Most of the time that wailing and knashing of teeth is a necessary journey for a deeper more obedient and wiser love for God than was imaginable.

One of my favourite movie scenes is the one in Forrest Gump when Lieutenant Dan is raging at God from the deck of the shrimp boat in the storm. Then in the morning when the seas are calm and the sun is shining he is floating in the water having made his peace with God through the tempest.

You will eventually come through the storm too and even though you may not get the answers to the worlds sufferings… you’ll no longer be wracked by the meaningless of it all.

God bless. Journey well.

Thank you Longing Soul. I know what you mean about the shock. At first I felt so alone. Then other people told of their losses and it wasn’t so lonesome. Then the number of those losses overwhelmed me. I could cry right now thinking about what happened to you, but then to think of all that multiplied across the world…

As for getting angry with God, theologians seem to tie themselves in knots on the problem of suffering, but I’ve never believed God has any choice - He is love and so if He could stop suffering He surely would. Maybe I’m a very naughty Christian for thinking that (or maybe still too overwhelmed to get angry).

 

[CatholicRaven]

I think there are reasons for suffering, but the reasons really don’t matter when you’re hurting. Knowing why doesn’t always help–like when we lose someone we love. We don’t really need or want reasons… if we cannot have the person back, at the least we want comfort, consolation. Not words so much, but simply being there for us. Understanding our pain.

The one who brings us the most comfort in such times is often the one who has been through similar suffering; who lets us grieve and even rant and rave at them, but doesn’t argue back; who quietly helps us do what needs to be done; who is simply there for us when we need them.

I believe that’s what God does. It’s the best thing for us.

Praying for all those who have lost a loved one.

 

[inocente]

I am sorry for your loss, it surely is difficult to lose a spouse.

That was nice of the priest to officiate at your wife’s funeral, and, according to her wishes sing Psalm 23 in English.

The Church is effectively the state religion here, so I’m not sure if it is policy or it was just that priest. He’s a very kind man anyway, and a friend says the numbers attending Mass have shot up since he arrived.

*When we focus on the Death and Resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ, it helps us through the time of mourning. This life is short, and our goal is to be with the Lord starting now, and then into the joy of eternity with Him.

My husband died fifteen years ago, also of cancer. He had a very happy death surrounded by our eight children, (all adults) who traveled from various states in the U.S. What made it so joyous was that he had resisted being wholeheartedly in the faith for many years, and when he was diagnosed with cancer he thought a lot more about faith.

A lot of his resistance had to do with no catechesis, or very little, when he was a child. It all worked out wonderfully with much prayer, and the help of friends’ prayers as well. A few months before his death he went to confession of his own volition, and from then on came to Mass every Sunday with me. He died a few weeks later, as I described above, with all of our children there. We prayed together and played his favorite hymn, “On Eagle’s Wings”.

I wanted to share all that to show how much prayer from family and friends helped. I hope that something I said was of help.

May the Lord be with you in a special way during this time of sadness!*

Thank you. Yes, you helped me. I think it helps greatly at these times to share. Just to hear of others. Just to know that you spent the time to reach out.

My wife died at home with family and her best friend. You speaking of your husband’s happy death reminded me that she too was not despondent. Happy would be the wrong word though. Serene would be the right word. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Dorothy]

Suffering, when we offer it up together with the suffering of our Lord Jesus Christ, helps to transform us into His likeness, and can be redemptive suffering for others. In Scripture it is also said that we can “…make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ.” That can easily be misunderstood, because there is nothing lacking in the suffering of Christ for us. It means, that at this time, in this period of history we can offer up with Christ our sufferings together with His for our sanctification and that of others.

We are on this earth for such a short time…I am paraphrasing, right now, what it says in Scripture, that we “spring up like grass in the morning and wither at night.”

God, in his original plan, did not want death or suffering, but He transformed it! And, because He rose from the dead, if we follow Him we too will experience resurrection, a spiritual body like His.

If I did not articulate this as well as I should have, I welcome others to help, or add more.

 

[Dorothy]

The Church is effectively the state religion here, so I’m not sure if it is policy or it was just that priest. He’s a very kind man anyway, and a friend says the numbers attending Mass have shot up since he arrived.

Thank you. Yes, you helped me. I think it helps greatly at these times to share. Just to hear of others. Just to know that you spent the time to reach out.

My wife died at home with family and her best friend. You speaking of your husband’s happy death reminded me that she too was not despondent. Happy would be the wrong word though. Serene would be the right word. Thanks for reminding me.

I am glad my words helped. God bless!

Dorothy

 

[inocente]

A Grief Observed is a non-fiction reflection from author and theologian C.S. Lewis on the process of grieving for his wife, who died of cancer after three years of marriage. He keeps a journal throughout the months immediately following and very candidly describes his resulting anger and bewilderment at God, his observations of his impressions of life and his world without her, and his process of moving in and out of stages of grieving and remembering her. He ultimately comes to a revolutionary redefinition of his own characterization of God, and gains the ability to live gratefully for the gift of a true love as long as he was enrolled in that particular education.

The book is often compared to another book by Lewis, The Problem of Pain, written approximately twenty years before A Grief Observed. The Problem of Pain seeks to provide theory behind the pain in the world. A Grief Observed is the reality of the theory in The Problem of Pain. It was more difficult to apply the theories he posited to a pain with which he was so intimately involved. At first it is hard for Lewis to see the reason of his theories amidst the anguish of his wife’s death but through the book one can see the gradual reacceptance of these theories, the reacceptance of the necessity of suffering.

Lewis’ difficulty is specifically reflected in the following passage from the book: “Is anything more certain than that in all those vast times and spaces, if I were allowed to search them, I should nowhere find her face, her voice, her touch? She died. She is dead. Is the word so difficult to learn?” And Lewis’ ultimate resolution of his dilemma is in part articulated in the book, as follows: "I will not, if I can help it, shin up either the feathery or the prickly tree. Two widely different convictions press more and more on my mind. One is that the Eternal Vet is even more inexorable and the possible operations even more painful than our severest imaginings can forebode. But the other, that ‘all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well’. "

Perhaps reading these books will be a comfort to you now.

That’s very helpful, thank you.

Kelly Shagan at Yale does a largely secular philosophy class called simply Death. His lectures are online at Academic Earth. It might sound strange, even morbid, but I’ve also found it helpful to look a little at the psychology and neuroscience of grief.

For me, trying to understand it as a process makes it less personal somehow, takes away some of the sting, makes me think of helping others and not just myself. I kept a journal before my wife died, partly because cancer runs your life so a record is essential, but I’ve not kept one after so Lewis’ account will be very helpful. The passage you quoted was well chosen - I know exactly what he means.

 

[Della]

I too offer my condolences to those who have lost loved ones. I’ve seen both my mother and father and grandparents and three cousins die, so I know what you are suffering.

Suffering is the result of the sin of Adam and Eve. When they decided to rebel against God who had created them in his own image–giving them intelligence, immortality, and love, who cared for them, provided for them and asked only one thing of them–to trust him instead of relying soley on their five senses and their own wills, what did they do? They tossed it all back in his face. And what did he do? Kill them? Revile them? No, he redeemed them and gave them a second chance, but the damage was done to their intellects, their wills and their very nature. Instead of living in a beautiful garden with everything they could possibly want, they were cast out in to the wider, less nurturing world–since they could not be trusted to not eat of the tree of everlasting life and remain forever in their fallen condition.

What is the point of all this? It is to show that God is not the one who is not fair. We humans brought our own sufferings upon ourselves. It is God who has done all he can without violating our consciences and our wills, to bring us back to himself. What we suffer we suffer because we rejected God’s will and decided to go out on our own. Disease and cruelty were not part of God’s plan for humanity. By rejecting God’s plan we brought these things upon ourselves. Adam and Eve made this decision for themselves and their children, us.

The Bible talks a great deal about suffering. This link is but a sampling: quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=suffering&restrict=All&size=First+100. The thing that makes suffering bearable is joining it with the sufferings of Christ. Otherwise it does seem unfair. Without God there is no fairness for individuals and perhaps not even for man as a species. Left on our own without God we might simply go extinct, like other earthly creatures do. But God created us out of love to be with him in his love for eternity. If we keep our eyes fixed on this reality we can understand that “the sufferings of this present age are as nothing compared with the glory that is to come.”

 

[inocente]

When people ask why is there pain and suffering in this world ? I used to say because this is earth NOT Heaven. Now I say, because it is an opportunity for us to show our love and compassion.

Agreed.

Of course only God knows the real answer as to why He intervenes in some situation and not in others. I can only offer my condolences as well. One of my classmates lost his spouse year ago and he did meet someone else and has a second family.

We are all destined for some limited amount of time on this earth. We need to look at the time that we were allowed to live and love and not focus on how short that time is. I can not imagine losing my wife at any age but I hope I will try to remember the great times and kids that we have not focus of what might have been.

My prayers are with you, and I am sure that God was with your wife when she died and I hope He will be with you and your family to help you through this. Sometimes there are no real reasonable answers to why, at least none that we have the wisdom to see.

The patroness of our parish, St Jane Frances De Chantal, became a nun after her husband passed away. I hope she will pray for you and your family as well.

Thanks, yes I agree with that too. When I first visited the priest and told him my wife was dying, he offered various bits of advice, some of which wasn’t really very useful. But one brilliant thing he did say was “tell your wife every day how much you love her and how important she is to you”. It’s a good habit to get into.

 

[inocente]

Thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to post. I want to respond to each of you but my brain is now officially fried and I’ll have to catch up tomorrow.

 

[Nan_S]

My condolences to you.

I lost my father in 2005 after a surprise heart attack. My husband lost his father in 2012 after he caught a lingering staph infection during routine surgery. And tomorrow it will be exactly four weeks since I lost a special friend to lung cancer.

There is nothing I can say which will make you forget the pain, but I can assure you that over time it does get better. We cherish the good memories, we let the faults fade away, and we learn to love again. Those of us who are left behind have another chance - to live again, to love again, to fix the things we didn’t fix before. We have the chance to make good on those things our loved ones wanted us to make good, to build a lasting memorial to everything that was best about our dear ones who have gone on ahead of us.

God did not promise a life free of pain. God promised us His grace so that we could cope with the pain. The wounds we have will heal into scars, and our scars will help us know how to help others cope with their pain.

Do it for your loved one. Smell a flower. Smile at a child. Help someone in need. Share the grace.

Love again.

Sing.

Thank God for giving you the sunrise this morning, and the stars tonight, because this means you have the chance today to be the Hands of God to someone else, just as your loved one wanted you to be.

And listen. Be calm and listen. Your loved one is still speaking to you through your heart. You have only to be still and listen.

May you rest in the arms of Christ tonight, and in all the nights to come.

 

[inocente]

Basically the lack of a formal career or trade. I have been given hints about “writing”, but I’ve also copped a lot of frustration over the years from other people, which basically have shafted any chance of what might be called a “career”.

Best I can offer is this: You’ll know the rule for a good career, to do what you enjoy, because then you’ll raise your game and be happy. You might not know that this isn’t just a truism anymore, there’s a lot of research on how it makes for a fulfilled life. It’s known as the “flow” state, and is described in this video, there’s a paper on finding it when writing here, and a Wikipedia article. Makes sense to me at any rate. Might be worth a look.

*But what I still don’t accept, or find easy to accept, is the gross unfairness meted out to people in this life. Some almost breeze through - others suffer every day for their entire lives.

And as I said, nobody has come close to offering an adequate explanation that I know about.*

The e word gives an explanation but that’s a banned topic.

 

[inocente]

I am so sorry for your loss. You will be in my prayers.

I haven’t lost a loved one at an age where I remember the grief I went through, but I work in a hospital and witness on a weekly basis the pain some families are put through and it does leave you asking the questions such as you ask.

I don’t think any of us can know the answer for sure, I gain comfort from knowing that those who have passed are in the Lords hands. I trust in Him.

One of my favourite poems which I hope to have at my funeral one day is the following:

Thank you for your prayers, and for working in a hospital (I am in awe of all who do), and for the poem. I didn’t know it and looked it up. The story of its origin is very poignant. Thanks.

 

[inocente]

I think there are reasons for suffering, but the reasons really don’t matter when you’re hurting. Knowing why doesn’t always help–like when we lose someone we love. We don’t really need or want reasons… if we cannot have the person back, at the least we want comfort, consolation. Not words so much, but simply being there for us. Understanding our pain.

The one who brings us the most comfort in such times is often the one who has been through similar suffering; who lets us grieve and even rant and rave at them, but doesn’t argue back; who quietly helps us do what needs to be done; who is simply there for us when we need them.

I believe that’s what God does. It’s the best thing for us.

Praying for all those who have lost a loved one.

In my opinion you’re very astute. Thanks for the prayers.

 

[inocente]

Suffering, when we offer it up together with the suffering of our Lord Jesus Christ, helps to transform us into His likeness, and can be redemptive suffering for others. In Scripture it is also said that we can “…make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ.” That can easily be misunderstood, because there is nothing lacking in the suffering of Christ for us. It means, that at this time, in this period of history we can offer up with Christ our sufferings together with His for our sanctification and that of others.

We are on this earth for such a short time…I am paraphrasing, right now, what it says in Scripture, that we “spring up like grass in the morning and wither at night.”

God, in his original plan, did not want death or suffering, but He transformed it! And, because He rose from the dead, if we follow Him we too will experience resurrection, a spiritual body like His.

If I did not articulate this as well as I should have, I welcome others to help, or add more.

Your post is probably aimed at Catholics, but I’d not heard of that doctrine so looked it up, and neither the wiki article, CCC nor a quick search of CAF helped. I’d worry though that some people can’t fully accept Christ’s sacrifice, and it gives them a way of thinking they can pay Him instead of accepting His gift outright. That’s obviously me failing to understand .

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Best I can offer is this: You’ll know the rule for a good career, to do what you enjoy, because then you’ll raise your game and be happy. You might not know that this isn’t just a truism anymore, there’s a lot of research on how it makes for a fulfilled life. It’s known as the “flow” state, and is described in this video, there’s a paper on finding it when writing here, and a Wikipedia article. Makes sense to me at any rate. Might be worth a look.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...vs_skill.svg/300px-Challenge_vs_skill.svg.png

The e word gives an explanation but that’s a banned topic.

Thanks for your suggestions regarding “flow”. I’ve bookmarked both written suggestions (I’m hard of hearing, so I’m not a You Tube fan for aural purposes, although I’ll sometimes watch it for visual spectacle).

I’ll read them in more detail later.

It would be nice to “flow” as a writer. It’s one thing to ping off a post on a forum, which I can do in a couple of minutes. It’s quite another to sit down and write a novel.

 

[inocente]

I too offer my condolences to those who have lost loved ones. I’ve seen both my mother and father and grandparents and three cousins die, so I know what you are suffering.

Thanks on behalf of all of us.

The Bible talks a great deal about suffering. This link is but a sampling: quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=suffering&restrict=All&size=First+100.

This search finds even more, including a favorite passage (I inherited my divinity teacher’s love of Isaiah, and my music teacher’s love of Messiah):

*For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by others;
a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity;
and as one from whom others hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him of no account.

youtube.com/watch?v=Rdf0Qyhc82Q*

 

[Della]

What the verses I cited show is that Jesus’ sufferings are our sufferings because he is the Second Adam, the new father of the human race who has told us that we too will suffer in this life. We are the Body of Christ. Can we think that we will escape what he himself did not escape? What he embraced for love of us? Justice alone tells us that we need to bow to suffering in order to be like him who was perfected in his sufferings, as Scripture tells us. This is why the Church has always taught that we should offer up our sufferings with those of Christ in order to make them redemptive of mankind, as coworkers with Christ. We are Christ in the world. As we suffer and show that we love God and others, those around us will be encouraged to do the same. Everything we do, think or say is a part of living our lives for Christ, yes?

I imagine the priests and nuns who ministered to you in your time of grief didn’t give you a theological lesson (although they were quite capable of doing so) when you did not ask for any. The priests and nuns were being kind and ecumenical. If you were to ask the same priest about the hows and why-fors of suffering, I’m sure he’d say pretty much what we’ve been saying here.

Catholics do not impose theology on people when we aren’t asked. We respect others privacy. If asked, though we are happy to give answers as we are able to give them, although not everyone of us is a theologian or an apologist. Most can and will offer reasons for the hope that lies within them, although they may not use that terminology to describe it.

 

[inocente]

My condolences to you.

I lost my father in 2005 after a surprise heart attack. My husband lost his father in 2012 after he caught a lingering staph infection during routine surgery. And tomorrow it will be exactly four weeks since I lost a special friend to lung cancer.

There is nothing I can say which will make you forget the pain, but I can assure you that over time it does get better. We cherish the good memories, we let the faults fade away, and we learn to love again. Those of us who are left behind have another chance - to live again, to love again, to fix the things we didn’t fix before. We have the chance to make good on those things our loved ones wanted us to make good, to build a lasting memorial to everything that was best about our dear ones who have gone on ahead of us.

God did not promise a life free of pain. God promised us His grace so that we could cope with the pain. The wounds we have will heal into scars, and our scars will help us know how to help others cope with their pain.

Do it for your loved one. Smell a flower. Smile at a child. Help someone in need. Share the grace.

Love again.

Sing.

Thank God for giving you the sunrise this morning, and the stars tonight, because this means you have the chance today to be the Hands of God to someone else, just as your loved one wanted you to be.

And listen. Be calm and listen. Your loved one is still speaking to you through your heart. You have only to be still and listen.

May you rest in the arms of Christ tonight, and in all the nights to come.

Thank you Nan for that beautiful post. I have kept coming back to it throughout the day.

A friend of ours lost his wife to lung cancer early last year, she was my wife’s best friend. He has found it intensely difficult to move on. I will try to help him with what you said, although he is agnostic (or atheist, I’m not sure) so I’ll need to change it here and there. Thank you again.

 

[Memaw]

Thank you Nan for that beautiful post. I have kept coming back to it throughout the day.

A friend of ours lost his wife to lung cancer early last year, she was my wife’s best friend. He has found it intensely difficult to move on. I will try to help him with what you said, although he is agnostic (or atheist, I’m not sure) so I’ll need to change it here and there. Thank you again.

Speak to him the truth, gently but nicely, no need to change that. Just tell him what helps you. It may just be what he needs to hear. Prayers for you both, God Bless, Memaw

 

[inocente]

What the verses I cited show is that Jesus’ sufferings are our sufferings because he is the Second Adam, the new father of the human race who has told us that we too will suffer in this life. We are the Body of Christ. Can we think that we will escape what he himself did not escape? What he embraced for love of us? Justice alone tells us that we need to bow to suffering in order to be like him who was perfected in his sufferings, as Scripture tells us. This is why the Church has always taught that we should offer up our sufferings with those of Christ in order to make them redemptive of mankind, as coworkers with Christ. We are Christ in the world. As we suffer and show that we love God and others, those around us will be encouraged to do the same. Everything we do, think or say is a part of living our lives for Christ, yes?

Sorry Della, I didn’t ignore what you said but we of course have theological differences on such matters as Adam and original sin, so I left it to Catholic readers to comment on those areas. Perhaps we will discuss it in the Moral Theology forum some time.

I imagine the priests and nuns who ministered to you in your time of grief didn’t give you a theological lesson (although they were quite capable of doing so) when you did not ask for any. The priests and nuns were being kind and ecumenical. If you were to ask the same priest about the hows and why-fors of suffering, I’m sure he’d say pretty much what we’ve been saying here.

I’m sure you’re right that they all have a thorough theological grounding, but most of the nuns are nurses and technicians (radiography and so on) and I don’t think any of them knew my wife wasn’t Catholic. As it’s virtually everyone’s birth religion here, I think that would be their assumption.

The priest, in everything, reminds me of what Pope Francis called “integral humanism” in a mighty fine speech last year:

“A process that promotes an integral humanism and the culture of encounter and relationship: this is the Christian way of promoting the common good, the joy of living. Here, faith and reason unite, the religious dimension and the various aspects of human culture – art, science, labour, literature… Christianity combines transcendence and incarnation; for its capacity to always revitalize thought and life, in the face of the threat of dissatisfaction and disillusionment which can creep into hearts and spread in the streets.” - news.va/en/news/pope-francis-my-advice-is-always-dialogue-dialogue