Which Catholic doctrines are currently being challenged by emerging christianity?

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Yep I get that a male priest is acting in the person of Christ, yet I don’t know where it is written that Jesus said only a male should "Do this in memory of me”
Leaving aside the fact that he was speaking directly to the Apostles.
When the hour came, he took his place at the table, and the apostles with him. He said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you, I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; for I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” Then he took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:14-20)
Who is JESUS telling to “DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME,” if not the APOSTLES, specifically?

Jesus chose only male Apostles. He directed the Apostles alone and specifically to consecrate bread and wine. The Apostles specifically selected males alone to replace them.

You could, I suppose, charge the Apostles with arbitrarily selecting males to succeed them, when Jesus really intended both males and females to function as the priesthood, but that would mean insisting that Jesus merely coincidentally chose an all male Apostolic cohort and that the Apostles merely, by a meaningless oversight, followed-up that coincidental and irrelevant act by Jesus with their own equally meaningless and irrelevant choices of male successors.

Your whole case, however, suspiciously begins to appear contrived and ad hoc, fabricated merely to bolster a case that cannot be made from the words and acts of Jesus himself.

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to ask why Jesus might have deliberately chosen an all-male priesthood and what that act, by itself, signifies, rather than insisting that it must inherently be a case of injustice that has been unthinkingly, or otherwise, perpetrated by the Church ever since and must, therefore, be rectified because you “feel” it must be, irrespective of why Jesus and the Apostles might have done such a thing to begin with.
 
Leaving aside the fact that he was speaking directly to the Apostles.

Who is JESUS telling to “DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME,” if not the APOSTLES, specifically?

Jesus chose only male Apostles. He directed the Apostles alone and specifically to consecrate bread and wine. The Apostles specifically selected males alone to replace them.

You could, I suppose, charge the Apostles with arbitrarily selecting males to succeed them, when Jesus really intended both males and females to function as the priesthood, but that would mean insisting that Jesus merely coincidentally chose an all male Apostolic cohort and that the Apostles merely, by a meaningless oversight, followed-up that coincidental and irrelevant act by Jesus with their own equally meaningless and irrelevant choices of male successors.

Your whole case, however, suspiciously begins to appear contrived and ad hoc, fabricated merely to bolster a case that cannot be made from the words and acts of Jesus himself.

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to ask why Jesus might have deliberately chosen an all-male priesthood and what that act, by itself, signifies, rather than insisting that it must inherently be a case of injustice that has been unthinkingly, or otherwise, perpetrated by the Church ever since and must, therefore, be rectified because you “feel” it must be, irrespective of why Jesus and the Apostles might have done such a thing to begin with.
Chill…

I do not “feel” anything. I do however understand how people view an all male structure, and how passed beliefs and roots in the jewish faith were the base for certain ways of thinking.
Luke I think is the only one who uses the word Apostle when explaining the words of Jesus’ last supper. The others use the word disciples.
I believe the passover meal would have had women present in the jewish tradition.

It pains me to think that a women offering the Mass to God would in some way be disrespectful, or a offence to God.

*“All the faithful, both clerical and lay, should be accorded a lawful freedom of research, freedom of thought and freedom of expression.”

Gaudium et Spes, no 62.*

👍
 
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/nun_slapping_ruler_hg_clr-2.gif
Several off topic posts removed.

Please remain on the topic of listing "Which Catholic doctrines are currently being challenged by emerging Christianity?"

If you wish to discuss or debate any particular one then as per Forum Rules
you need to open a separate thread on that topic.
Thank you. 🙂

This is a good reminder to me that it is time that we put our research in order. The concept of Emerging Christianity itself is turning out to be its own challenge. :eek:
 
Apologies.

I find one topic leads to another pretty fast in these threads!

🙂
 
A sincere thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. Your work is appreciated.👍

After struggling for some time in Emerging Christianity research, I need to be honest in saying that I have gone as far as I am capable.

In the first sentence of post 1, I referred to the attack on the Divinity of Jesus Christ. Today, I find the attack on the Divinity of Jesus Christ as He is present in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, that is, we see the priest as “In Persona Christi”. At the moment, I cannot tie that attack on Christ to Emerging Christianity. Therefore, after struggling with what I see happening, I now believe that my recent observations should be in a separate thread, sometime in the future.
 
A sincere thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. Your work is appreciated.👍

After struggling for some time in Emerging Christianity research, I need to be honest in saying that I have gone as far as I am capable.

In the first sentence of post 1, I referred to the attack on the Divinity of Jesus Christ. Today, I find the attack on the Divinity of Jesus Christ as He is present in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, that is, we see the priest as “In Persona Christi”. At the moment, I cannot tie that attack on Christ to Emerging Christianity. Therefore, after struggling with what I see happening, I now believe that my recent observations should be in a separate thread, sometime in the future.
I actually think one CAN tie attack of Jesus and on His Church to the movement “emerging Christianity” as in “Emerging Church movement” as those terms are being used by the movement.

In your post #99

many people have come to think, sometimes through movements, the Catholic Church is just a human institution not a Divine institution instituted by Christ not man, to give us the grace with the sacraments Jesus instituted for our salvation,

From Johnnette Benkovic http://www.womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=11460
 
I actually think one CAN tie attack of Jesus and on His Church to the movement “emerging Christianity” as in “Emerging Church movement” as those terms are being used by the movement.

From Johnnette Benkovic [womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=11460](http://www.womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=11460)
Thank you.

This link is dated March 10, 2010, which allows enough time for a trickle down effect in 2014. To me, it is exactly the trickle down effects of “emerging Christianity” that have led to the decline of attendance at the true Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, I have gone as far as I am capable.

After struggling for some time in Emerging Christianity research, including a brief overview of the Emergent Church movement, with sincere gratitude, I welcome someone who can connect the dots. Thank you.
 
Thank you.

This link is dated March 10, 2010, which allows enough time for a trickle down effect in 2014. To me, it is exactly the trickle down effects of “emerging Christianity” that have led to the decline of attendance at the true Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, I have gone as far as I am capable.

After struggling for some time in Emerging Christianity research, including a brief overview of the Emergent Church movement, with sincere gratitude, I welcome someone who can connect the dots. Thank you.
For me, the decline of people attending church has nothing to do with emerging Christianity, especially people of my age group, they haven’t taken to another church, they just don’t do church. Doesn’t mean they no longer believe in God…

Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.
 
For me, the decline of people attending church has nothing to do with emerging Christianity, especially people of my age group, they haven’t taken to another church, they just don’t do church. Doesn’t mean they no longer believe in God…

Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.
I do not have a reply.
 
Originally Posted by simpleas forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
For me, the decline of people attending church has nothing to do with emerging Christianity, especially people of my age group, they haven’t taken to another church, they just don’t do church. Doesn’t mean they no longer believe in God…

Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.
I do not have a reply.
I have found a reply by re-reading the initial posts in this thread. Ignatius, in post 3, asks: “What is emerging Christianity?”

PJH_74, in post 4, replies:
“I’m not sure it’s a movement so much as it is a search for how church remains relevant. Some of the ideas proposed could challenge Church doctrine, but some of it could compliment it. I guess my point is this can well be healthy discussion about how church moves into the future. It doesn’t have to mean abandoning things, it can mean keeping what we have relevant and alive too.”

I really am older than dirt. 😃 In the 1940’s-1950’s, I lived in an area which could be considered grass roots for Vatican II. How to make the Church relevant was discussed in our living room. Note: I would eavesdrop by sitting on the stairs going up to the bedrooms.

Now that everyone knows my credentials. :rotfl:

Here is a timely comment by Simpleas in post 115.
“Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.”

Historically, the Catholic Church has been dealing with relevancy since Acts, chapter 15. The search for how Catholicism can remain relevant will continue until the Second Coming. It is part of Matthew 28: 16-20 and John, chapter 14. The key issue in this century is that there are Catholics who want the Church to fit the cultures (plural intended) which are considered as modern or contemporary.

As PJH 74 point commented: “I guess my point is this can well be healthy discussion about how church moves into the future.”

Healthy discussion or a healing discussion is what was in the back of my mind when I asked: “Which Catholic doctrines are currently being challenged by emerging Christianity?” Following the ***valid ***pruning of the thread (thank you Michael), I now think that I should have asked: Which Catholic doctrines are being challenged by those want the Church to comport with current cultures?

Sidebar: One of my favorite sentences on updating Catholic doctrines is “Catholics should not leave their brains at the door.”

Getting back to this thread. 😃

Here is a very good point. Nita, in post 10, answered the question “What is emerging Christianity?”
“That would be my question also ---- to the point that I would question the validity or benefits of any proposals classified as “emerging Christianity”. Christianity “emerged” 2000 years ago.”

My apology, Nita. I should have recognized that the protocol that the visible Catholic Church uses to declare doctrines has to be understood when speaking about Christianity “emerging” 2000 years ago. It is the protocol of the major ecumenical councils which comes into play when we are talking about challenges to Catholic doctrines.

I do not know how readers feel about all of the above; however, my brain is very tired.
 
. . . Doesn’t mean they no longer believe in God…

Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.
Belief is not enough.
The move into the Twenty-first century does not require what is basically a distorted interpretation of Christ’s teachings. I have no idea what changes might be necessary as it is all in place within the Church that He Himself established, right now. The problem is with the nonsense that is fed to society by this consumerist secular society. And, one of the distortions is reflected in your position on sin. If one is oblivious to the reality of his sinful nature, one will not seek God. On the first day of Advent yet. At mass today, it is important to contemplate on the first reading from Isaiah.
 
The church teaches that the main motive for ethical behavior is the love of God. Nothing that God has created is evil in itself, but evil use may be made of it. The doctrine concerning persons not Catholic is that since God affords each human being light sufficient to attain salvation, all will be saved who persevere in what they believe to be good, regardless of ignorance. Only those will be damned who persist in what they know to be wrong; among these are persons who resist the church when they know it to be the one, true church.

The last line in this piece I just don’t understand.

How can we say people will be damned when God is the only one who knows a person better than anyone, including the person.

People seem to resist the church when they are in conflict with someone or some teaching, not when they come to the knowledge that it is the one true church, that they have journeyed to through their life time, and then just decide it is wrong…
 
The church teaches that the main motive for ethical behavior is the love of God. Nothing that God has created is evil in itself, but evil use may be made of it. The doctrine concerning persons not Catholic is that since God affords each human being light sufficient to attain salvation, all will be saved who persevere in what they believe to be good, regardless of ignorance. Only those will be damned who persist in what they know to be wrong; among these are persons who resist the church when they know it to be the one, true church.

The last line in this piece I just don’t understand.

How can we say people will be damned when God is the only one who knows a person better than anyone, including the person.
Because this piece speaks to a general principle, not a specific person. The Church is exercising her duty to define the conditions under which we can lose our eternal happiness.
People seem to resist the church when they are in conflict with someone or some teaching, not when they come to the knowledge that it is the one true church, that they have journeyed to through their life time, and then just decide it is wrong…
Experience teaches me that knowledge in not sufficient to cause obedience. As the piece above states, there are those who persist in what they know to be wrong and resist the church when they know it to be the one, true church.
 
People seem to resist the church when they are in conflict with someone or some teaching, not when they come to the knowledge that it is the one true church, that they have journeyed to through their life time, and then just decide it is wrong…
Because this thread asks which Catholic doctrines are currently being challenged by emerging Christianity, would it be possible to cite examples of what you are referring to?

As I explore emerging Christianity, my personal opinion is that it is not necessarily a question of deciding that the Catholic Church is flat out wrong. It is more like tampering with doctrines so that they are not really important. People like Christianity. Christianity does a lot of good in the world. It is that some people prefer a softer version than what is offered by Catholicism.

Please note: Due to coming surgery, I will not be posting as often as I would like to.
 
Please note.

I hope this thread will stay on topic. On the other hand, maybe the thread has run its course. That is all right.

Because I am dealing with a cancer issue, I may not be posting as much as I would like to.

Thank you to everyone who has participated. As for myself, I have learned a lot from the posts.
 
For me, the decline of people attending church has nothing to do with emerging Christianity, especially people of my age group, they haven’t taken to another church, they just don’t do church. Doesn’t mean they no longer believe in God…
Believe / faith, are not just words someone says. They are words that require demonstration / action.

For example

One can’t say they love Jesus and not obey His commands. John 14:15
anymore than one can say they have faith without actionJames 2:26
s:
Our church needs to move into the 21st century, as the church has done in every other century. What people need to hear is a fresh approach to what sin is, as I think we are getting to a point where sin does not exist for some people.
sin hasn’t changed. The list of sins hasn’t changed. People ignoring warnings against sin hasn’t changed, nor is disobedience to faith something new.
 
Please note.

I hope this thread will stay on topic. On the other hand, maybe the thread has run its course. That is all right.

Because I am dealing with a cancer issue, I may not be posting as much as I would like to.

Thank you to everyone who has participated. As for myself, I have learned a lot from the posts.
:crossrc::highprayer::crossrc:
 
Please note.

I hope this thread will stay on topic. On the other hand, maybe the thread has run its course. That is all right.

Because I am dealing with a cancer issue, I may not be posting as much as I would like to.

Thank you to everyone who has participated. As for myself, I have learned a lot from the posts.
We love you, Granny.🙂 Our prayers are with you.
 
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