Which Catholic doctrines are currently being challenged by emerging christianity?

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steve_b said:
Believe / faith, are not just words someone says. They are words that require demonstration / action.

For example

One can’t say they love Jesus and not obey His commands. John 14:15
anymore than one can say they have faith without actionJames 2:26

sin hasn’t changed. The list of sins hasn’t changed. People ignoring warnings against sin hasn’t changed, nor is disobedience to faith something new.
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The list of sins may not have changed, but the way people view what sin is and what they think is sin has, imo…That is what I was referring to.

People ignore alot of catholic teachings, or don’t even bother to come to mass. Christmas eve/day Masses usually has a full to over flowing crowd of people, where are all these people during the year. Seems once a year is sufficient for many people to participate in the community of believers.

Don’t want to go off topic.

Grannymh :blessyou: always
 
simpleas said:
The list of sins may not have changed, but the way people view what sin is and what they think is sin has, imo…That is what I was referring to.
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And all I’m saying, there’s nothing new about that. Paul constantly had to remind his listeners over and over again of sin specifically listing them
s:
People ignore alot of catholic teachings, or don’t even bother to come to mass. Christmas eve/day Masses usually has a full to over flowing crowd of people, where are all these people during the year. Seems once a year is sufficient for many people to participate in the community of believers.
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Deliberately missing mass on Sunday has ALWAYS been a mortal sin. Scripture even speaks of it in the most graphic of terms for the soul
#4
 
To everyone –

Thank you for your prayers. Your support is needed as I struggle through preparations for surgery. Today, I received the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.

Post 127 reminded me of what I am learning about this new (emerging) type of being Christian. What is primary is the fellowship similar to what we find when we come to Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, since the goal is to include all different opinions in fellowship and good works, teachings regarding the Mass are set aside. There is a symbolic “breaking bread together”.

What is causing the damage is the idea that doctrines are not needed in Catholicism. I read somewhere something like “God is bigger than doctrines.” No doctrines needed in Catholicism will end in the loss of the Sacraments (doctrinally taught) such as the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.
 
steve_b said:
And all I’m saying, there’s nothing new about that. Paul constantly had to remind his listeners over and over again of sin specifically listing them

Deliberately missing mass on Sunday has ALWAYS been a mortal sin. Scripture even speaks of it in the most graphic of terms for the soul
#4
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Yes, but we don’t hear over and over in homilies what sin is and what it is doing to our families. Some people just don’t hear what the church teaches about relationships within the community, and within families.

Less people attend church now than ever before, there a numerous changes to the way people think. 40-50 years ago it was shameful for a unmarried woman to have a baby, they were sent away etc. Nowadays, it’s almost the norm for single woman, and the child isn’t given away, or the woman made to feel ashamed for conceiving out of wed lock.

We need only confess once a year, attend communion at Easter, seems quite less disciplined now than in the past…why is that?
 
simpleas said:
Yes, but we don’t hear over and over in homilies what sin is and what it is doing to our families. Some people just don’t hear what the church teaches about relationships within the community, and within families.

Less people attend church now than ever before, there a numerous changes to the way people think. 40-50 years ago it was shameful for a unmarried woman to have a baby, they were sent away etc. Nowadays, it’s almost the norm for single woman, and the child isn’t given away, or the woman made to feel ashamed for conceiving out of wed lock.

We need only confess once a year, attend communion at Easter, seems quite less disciplined now than in the past…why is that?
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Are there any good people?

Are there doctors without borders?
Are there people who gave their lives to save others, children from drowning?
Are there loving parents?
Are there soldiers who face evil?
Are there first responders?
Are their honest people? Charitable people? People who tell the truth?
Are there people who do their best to live according to the Ten Commandments?
Are there people who participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
Are there people who say yes to God?

Why is that?

Obviously, there are people who want to change God. People who want to water down Catholic doctrines. People who deny the state of Mortal Sin. Are they the fault of God?

Having a better Christianity has been twisted so that not only are basic Catholic doctrines trashed, there is no atonement for sin, because there was no Adam. No Adam means that there is no reason to recognize our responsibility as long as we are “good” Christians accepting every opinion, regardless of its differences.

Emerging Christianity by any other name is still an appealing attraction that leads away from the truths of Catholicism. All debts are cancelled as long as we “break bread” in harmony. Differences of opinions should be accepted without comparing them to Catholic doctrines. We need to “emerge” beyond doctrines! *CCC *1730-32 should be abandoned. We are invited to “harmonize” as we emerge from some of the more distasteful concepts about the truth of our human nature and our real relationship with God.
 
grannymh said:
Are there any good people?

Are there doctors without borders?
Are there people who gave their lives to save others, children from drowning?
Are there loving parents?
Are there soldiers who face evil?
Are there first responders?
Are their honest people? Charitable people? People who tell the truth?
Are there people who do their best to live according to the Ten Commandments?
Are there people who participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
Are there people who say yes to God?

Why is that?

Obviously, there are people who want to change God. People who want to water down Catholic doctrines. People who deny the state of Mortal Sin. Are they the fault of God?

Having a better Christianity has been twisted so that not only are basic Catholic doctrines trashed, there is no atonement for sin, because there was no Adam. No Adam means that there is no reason to recognize our responsibility as long as we are “good” Christians accepting every opinion, regardless of its differences.

Emerging Christianity by any other name is still an appealing attraction that leads away from the truths of Catholicism. All debts are cancelled as long as we “break bread” in harmony. Differences of opinions should be accepted without comparing them to Catholic doctrines. We need to “emerge” beyond doctrines! *CCC *1730-32 should be abandoned. We are invited to “harmonize” as we emerge from some of the more distasteful concepts about the truth of our human nature and our real relationship with God.
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And we can see all that disobedience of humans today, getting it’s start in the garden, where Satan tempted the first humans to sin against God. Prayers ascending for a successful surgery.
 
simpleas said:
The list of sins may not have changed, but the way people view what sin is and what they think is sin has, imo…That is what I was referring to.

People ignore alot of catholic teachings, or don’t even bother to come to mass. Christmas eve/day Masses usually has a full to over flowing crowd of people, where are all these people during the year. Seems once a year is sufficient for many people to participate in the community of believers.

Don’t want to go off topic.

Grannymh :blessyou: always
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Exceptions for those who have no options here, consequences for sin aren’t suspended or eliminated for people who choose salvation and what to be obedient to, on their terms not God’s terms.

John Wayne had a great saying. Life is tough but it’s twice as tough for the stupid.
 
steve_b said:
Exceptions for those who have no options here, consequences for sin aren’t suspended or eliminated for people who choose salvation and what to be obedient to, on their terms not God’s terms.

John Wayne had a great saying. Life is tough but it’s twice as tough for the stupid./QUOTE]

Was he talking about spirituality?
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grannymh said:
Are there any good people?

Are there doctors without borders?
Are there people who gave their lives to save others, children from drowning?
Are there loving parents?
Are there soldiers who face evil?
Are there first responders?
Are their honest people? Charitable people? People who tell the truth?
Are there people who do their best to live according to the Ten Commandments?
Are there people who participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
Are there people who say yes to God?

Why is that?

Obviously, there are people who want to change God. People who want to water down Catholic doctrines. People who deny the state of Mortal Sin. Are they the fault of God?

Having a better Christianity has been twisted so that not only are basic Catholic doctrines trashed, there is no atonement for sin, because there was no Adam. No Adam means that there is no reason to recognize our responsibility as long as we are “good” Christians accepting every opinion, regardless of its differences.

Emerging Christianity by any other name is still an appealing attraction that leads away from the truths of Catholicism. All debts are cancelled as long as we “break bread” in harmony. Differences of opinions should be accepted without comparing them to Catholic doctrines. We need to “emerge” beyond doctrines! *CCC *1730-32 should be abandoned. We are invited to “harmonize” as we emerge from some of the more distasteful concepts about the truth of our human nature and our real relationship with God.
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Yes to your long list of questions. They have free will to do that which they believe is true.

I don’t think the doctrines are being trashed, well I don’t see that happening in the parishes I have been to, maybe a slightly different approach to the way our homilies are presented that don’t always reflect the importance of mortal sin, the separation from God that I hear more about on the internet than in church.

There are more ‘branches’ of Christianity, not all are trying to disregard Catholic teachings I don’t think, although I could be wrong. I know many people would trash any sort of religious teachings not just catholicism, but I do see many people accepting many beliefs.

A christian is a follower of Christ, many say they follow Christ and do the complete opposite behind closed doors, evident in our own church and from our own leaders. Maybe this is reasons for lack of faith in some of the moral teachings 🤷

Yes we shouldn’t allow the weakness of others to affect our spirit, and we should help make the changes needed to ensure the church can continue into the future.

God left us in our own council, free to grow in knowledge, mature spiritually, which can take many people a life time. To seek God as a loving God, rather than a God to be feared through guilt is where I see the church going.
 
simpleas said:
Yes to your long list of questions. They have free will to do that which they believe is true.

I don’t think the doctrines are being trashed, well I don’t see that happening in the parishes I have been to, maybe a slightly different approach to the way our homilies are presented that don’t always reflect the importance of mortal sin, the separation from God that I hear more about on the internet than in church.
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Regarding this comment from post 134: “I don’t think the doctrines are being trashed, well I don’t see that happening in the parishes I have been to, …”

It is understandable that you have never heard of women wanting to be Catholic priests. It is understandable that you have never heard anything about their worship services. It is understandable that you are unfamiliar with legitimate differences. You are lucky.
 
simpleas said:
steve b;12548710:
Exceptions for those who have no options here, consequences for sin aren’t suspended or eliminated for people who choose salvation and what to be obedient to, on their terms not God’s terms.

John Wayne had a great saying. Life is tough but it’s twice as tough for the stupid.
Click to expand...
Was he talking about spirituality?
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My take on it is, there’s ignorance and then there’s stupid.

For example:

people might not know
  • missing mass deliberately on Sunday is a mortal sin, nor why it is a mortal sin, nor the consequences to the soul if one deliberatly misses mass deliberately on Sunday.
That’s plain old garden variety ignorance. We are all ignorant and innocently so, of way more things than we have knowledge of. However, If we need to know someting that is critical for our spiritual wellbeing, that ignorance needs to be fixed and can be fixed by getting the information needed and then following that information. Case solved.

In extension, a person who receives that information is no longer ignorant of what they need to know nor of the grave consequences for going against that information. If they blow off that information, they do something stupid.
 
steve_b said:
My take on it is, there’s ignorance and then there’s stupid.
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Just trying to catch up with the Catholic Cafeteria conversation.

Thank you for your prayers. In itself, cancer surgery was successful. However, I am waiting to find out if those nasty cells had invaded another territory.
 
steve_b said:
My take on it is, there’s ignorance and then there’s stupid.

For example:

people might not know
  • missing mass deliberately on Sunday is a mortal sin, nor why it is a mortal sin, nor the consequences to the soul if one deliberatly misses mass deliberately on Sunday.
That’s plain old garden variety ignorance. We are all ignorant and innocently so, of way more things than we have knowledge of. However, If we need to know someting that is critical for our spiritual wellbeing, that ignorance needs to be fixed and can be fixed by getting the information needed and then following that information. Case solved.

In extension, a person who receives that information is no longer ignorant of what they need to know nor of the grave consequences for going against that information. If they blow off that information, they do something stupid.
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To you they may do something stupid.

Not all people deliberately set out to ignore information, some times it takes a while to hear the message. 👍
 
grannymh said:
Just trying to catch up with the Catholic Cafeteria conversation.

Thank you for your prayers. In itself, cancer surgery was successful. However, I am waiting to find out if those nasty cells had invaded another territory.
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What is a Catholic Cafeteria conversation?
 
simpleas said:
What is a Catholic Cafeteria conversation?
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“Cafeteria Catholics” is a term which refers to Catholics who choose the teachings they like and reject teachings that are inconvenient. It is like going to a buffet table or a breakfast bar in a cafeteria and choosing which foods are appealing and then ignoring all the rest.

I was thinking about “emerging Christianity” and it dawned on me that there are lots of Catholics who do not accept certain Catholic teachings. They are not part of some emerging Christianity movement, but they are doing the same thing in that they downplay or deny difficult doctrines. For example, there is the abortion issue and I was wondering which Catholic teachings are being challenged. The challenge of women priests and gay marriage would be a “Cafeteria” discussion …as I see it.
I could be wrong.:o
 
grannymh said:
“Cafeteria Catholics” is a term which refers to Catholics who choose the teachings they like and reject teachings that are inconvenient. It is like going to a buffet table or a breakfast bar in a cafeteria and choosing which foods are appealing and then ignoring all the rest.

I was thinking about “emerging Christianity” and it dawned on me that there are lots of Catholics who do not accept certain Catholic teachings. They are not part of some emerging Christianity movement, but they are doing the same thing in that they downplay or deny difficult doctrines. For example, there is the abortion issue and I was wondering which Catholic teachings are being challenged. The challenge of women priests and gay marriage would be a “Cafeteria” discussion …as I see it.
I could be wrong.:o
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Right, I don’t think a conversation which seeks to understand particular teachings within the church makes it a cafeteria conversation, unless someone is actually denying the teaching and trying to prove it is wrong, and actively protesting about the “issue”.

I do agree about the downplaying of some doctrines.

I think there is a small percentage of people (Catholic) that are a part of new ways of thinking if you like, but mostly I see it as people do not actively get involved in many of the “hot topics” that affect our lives. But these people are still Catholic aren’t they?

Why do we label ourselves? Traditional, cafeteria, liberal, progressive etc. I thought we were all just Catholic.
 
Catholic doctrines are not addressed by emerging Christianity, it’s basically a Protestant thing.
 
Results of CAF curiosity.

Being driven by curiosity, I have learned about different terms for “movements” whicn challenge unpopular Catholic doctrines. The term “movements” itself is debatable because often there are individuals who lean this way or that way from actual defined Catholic doctrines. It becomes difficult to trace individual comments to specific concepts such as “emerging Chrisitanity” or the mega church phenomenon, or the Catholic women priests groups.

What I have learned is that the “emerging church” concept is not familiar in all neighborhoods. In my old geographic neighborhood, a prominent Catholic wanted his parish to adapt some of the selling points of a popular mega church complex. He was not asking his parish to refrain from teaching some of the difficult Catholic doctrines.

In other words, it is neighborhood semantics which makes it difficult to recognize that the Catholic “emerging church concept” is simply wolves in sheep’s clothing.

In the reality of 2015, CAF, there is the possibility that harmonizing religious teachings where we “break bread” with eveyone does reflect a type of emerging Catholicism where the “eucharistic goal” is to be in communion with other beliefs. This is definitly a threat to Catholicism because “breaking bread” as a “communion” term" means that these emerging “wolves” are nibbling away at the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. One of the ways is the appealing proposal that all views of a Catholic doctrine are legitimate. Those of us who are old enough to have learned the protocol of the visible Catholic Church on earth know that ***before *a major ecumenical Church Council, all views of Divine Revelation are *temporarily ***considered “legimate”. It is ***during ***the Church Council that the Holy Spirit guides the formal wording of a doctrine. At that point, only one version is considered Divine Revelation.

Please note that the discarded views could have had some truth within them. Those truths are found in other properly defined Catholic doctrines.
 
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