Which Islam is the “true” Islam?

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To all Christian friends:

I was just watching this thread to see how christians view Islam.

Most descriptions of the Christian members are like those five blind men’s statements who were asked to describe an elephant after touching only certain areas of an elephant. You can imagine how they would have described it. From their descriptions you will never be able to render a true picture of an elephant because none of them really had the opportunity to feel the whole elephant nor they had eyes to see it.

Same is true with you because you either are not really interested in knowing Islam from it’s perspective or like to touch certain aspects through anti-Islam sources or gather information form here and there or hearsay.

Had you examined atleast your own faith objectively and critically, you would have had a totally new attitude and a new way of looking other religions especially Islam.

Let me remind you a very important aspect of Islam. Islam is not a religion at all, in the first place in the sense/terminology of western English word “religion”.

Islam is called in Arabic Addeen (Al+Deen) which means The Way of Life. And the only Deen (way of life) acceptable in the sight of God (Allah) is Al-islam. Islam means total submission through obedience of the Divine Law.

So when people think Islam must be a religion like Christianity or Buddhaism, they are wrong. In English there is no equivalent word for Addeen (The Way of Life). The closest one is ‘religion’, so usually Muslims use it because English is defficient langauge as opposed to deep Arabic or Hebrew langauges.

Now when it is said Islam is Addeen, The Way of Life, it gives solution to every field of human life. It is not a religion that is applicable only when you pray to God or do some rituals or acts of kindness. No. It is about living every moment in the state of Islam.

Each and every particle of this Universe and our own physical existence is Muslim except the freedom (choice) of our intellect. Why? because it is this freedom (choice), though limited, which makes us responsible for the consequences of our actions in this world and in the Hereafter.

It means everything is already surrendered (Muslim) to the law of God that is placed. When God created us He did not leave us to wander in vain. He did select some people among us to Guide us. These people were the Prophets/Messengers (PBUH). They came and gave the Law and lived by the Law to set an example. They all were human being like us. The last version of Law of God (Islam) was the Holy Quran.

Now as to it’s application, as far main precepts/foundational articles are concerned, **it is must to have a perfect agreement ** but in other areas which are subject to change due to the future progress in man’s thought it is not necessary that every one should have 100% agreement and same kind of interpretation on each and every minute details.

Differences in opinions are allowed in Islam in the details. This freedom to have different opinions allowed to emerge various schools of thought in the Muslim world and they all are valid as long as they all adopt those principles that have a possibility within the framework of Islamic Shari’ah.

So when you here about Hanfi or Shafa’i or Hanbali or Maliki schools of thought, you should not get confused. They are due to the difference in opinions that are valid. But they all adhere to same basic foundation of Islam. No one will depart from the essentiality of Holy Quran and the authentic Sunnah of the last Prophet (PBUH). As such when they pray or when they gather or when they go to Hajj at Mecca, despite they all belong to different schools of thought they all are one. Because Islam allowed to have different opinions in the minor matters other than fundamentals.

Islam is not rigid. It is this aspect of Islam, that makes it dynamic and grow alongwith the progress of human thought. This is the beautiful aspect of Islam.

So there is only one Islam in the mainstream Muslim world.

Note: But as far Ahmediyyahs are concerned, they are not Muslims at all because they departed from the main precept of Islam.]

 
George Waters:
Muslim,

I think there is a MAJOR difference between a peaceful Islam and an Islam that will use force to convert people to Islam. So, I ask again; which is the true Islam, the peaceful Islam or the Islam that will use force and violence to see the world Muslim? Which Islam posses the true teachings of Mohammed? That can’t be the same Islam when they are contradictory.
it is CLEARLY written in the Qu’ran not to force people to convert nor even tell them to convert…
anyone going against that is not Islamic… pure and simple…
 
I am amused by freed. His own ignorance mirrors that of many muslims when they speak about Christianity. None of them have ever really looked at objective teachings about our faith. Indeed they can be killed for doing so. They forbid any discussion that might lead to their conversion. And they kill those who do convert. So much for Islamic tolerance.

Islam is a way…a way of death. It is a faith of fear which was founded on violence. On the other hand Christianity is a way…a true way of life. Yes, Jesus died on the cross, but he didn’t kill anyone. He did it so that we might have abundent life. The quran never says God is love. It doesn’t even use the word “love”. But we believe that God loves us so much that he became love incarnate, so that we might become his sons and daughters. That is beauty. Nothing, nothing, in Islam comes close to that. We have the privilege of calling God our Father.
 
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cestusdei:
I am amused by freed. His own ignorance mirrors that of many muslims when they speak about Christianity. None of them have ever really looked at objective teachings about our faith. Indeed they can be killed for doing so. They forbid any discussion that might lead to their conversion. And they kill those who do convert. So much for Islamic tolerance.

Islam is a way…a way of death. It is a faith of fear which was founded on violence. On the other hand Christianity is a way…a true way of life. Yes, Jesus died on the cross, but he didn’t kill anyone. He did it so that we might have abundent life. The quran never says God is love. It doesn’t even use the word “love”. But we believe that God loves us so much that he became love incarnate, so that we might become his sons and daughters. That is beauty. Nothing, nothing, in Islam comes close to that. We have the privilege of calling God our Father.
Excellent post!:clapping:
 
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cestusdei:
I am amused by freed. His own ignorance mirrors that of many muslims when they speak about Christianity. None of them have ever really looked at objective teachings about our faith. Indeed they can be killed for doing so. They forbid any discussion that might lead to their conversion. And they kill those who do convert. So much for Islamic tolerance.

Islam is a way…a way of death. It is a faith of fear which was founded on violence. On the other hand Christianity is a way…a true way of life. Yes, Jesus died on the cross, but he didn’t kill anyone. He did it so that we might have abundent life. The quran never says God is love. It doesn’t even use the word “love”. But we believe that God loves us so much that he became love incarnate, so that we might become his sons and daughters. That is beauty. Nothing, nothing, in Islam comes close to that. We have the privilege of calling God our Father.
umm… if you read the Qu’ran… almost every chapter begins with “In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate”…

and there are TONS of places where it says “God loves the just”
 
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Muslim:
umm… if you read the Qu’ran… almost every chapter begins with “In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate”…

and there are TONS of places where it says “God loves the just”
Do you believe God is merciful to non Muslims if they don’t convert? In your opinion are there any ‘just’ people outside Islam? Is it merciful to put to death a person who converts from Islam to Christianity?
 
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Muslim:
umm… if you read the Qu’ran… almost every chapter begins with “In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate”…

and there are TONS of places where it says “God loves the just”
Yeah, but our God loves everyone, even sinners! The only thing he hates is sin! Our God is love!

I’m sure that by the “God loves the just” Allah meanst just Muslims,. right? If God only loves the just as you say, since we are all sinners, that would really mean that God hates most people most of the time?
 
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Booklover:
Yeah, but our God loves everyone, even sinners! The only thing he hates is sin! Our God is love!

I’m sure that by the “God loves the just” Allah meanst just Muslims,. right? If God only loves the just as you say, since we are all sinners, that would really mean that God hates most people most of the time?
Definately diffrent from Jesus love for sinner’s isn’t it?
 
Salaam Vickie;
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Booklover:
Yeah, but our God loves everyone, even sinners! The only thing he hates is sin! Our God is love!
I am not so sure Vickie. My reading of the Bible tells me otherwise and I am not talking about the OT side of it.

Jn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The conclusion from the above verse is that the one who does not believe in the begotten son should perish. Vickie this is not an unconditional love. How could God so love the world while putting a condition to his love? It is like God saying:” I love all of you, but you should believe in my only begotten son if you don’t want to perish” How many people did not even hear about the begotten son?

Jn 14:21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

If someone claims to love Jesus then he should keep his commandments and only then he will be loved by the Father. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love as you want us believe.

Jn 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

You should keep the words of Jesus if you truly love him, only then the Father would love you. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Jn 16:27 “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”

The Father loved the disciples because they loved Jesus and believed that he was sent by the Father, meaning they obeyed the messenger, this is the condition for the love of God. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
George Waters:
Definately diffrent from Jesus love for sinner’s isn’t it?
Allah the “master” loves his good slaves, but God “our FATHER”, loves His sinful children yet not their sins.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam Vickie;

I am not so sure Vickie. My reading of the Bible tells me otherwise and I am not talking about the OT side of it.

Jn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The conclusion from the above verse is that the one who does not believe in the begotten son should perish. Vickie this is not an unconditional love. How could God so love the world while putting a condition to his love? It is like God saying:” I love all of you, but you should believe in my only begotten son if you don’t want to perish” How many people did not even hear about the begotten son?

Jn 14:21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

If someone claims to love Jesus then he should keep his commandments and only then he will be loved by the Father. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love as you want us believe.

Jn 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

You should keep the words of Jesus if you truly love him, only then the Father would love you. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Jn 16:27 “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”

The Father loved the disciples because they loved Jesus and believed that he was sent by the Father, meaning they obeyed the messenger, this is the condition for the love of God. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Salaam.
Joseph.
Salaam Joseph,

God’s love is unconditional because when “we were yet sinners”, Jesus died for us…Jesus did not come for “some” people but to all humanity…he died for me and you and your children and everyone. THAT is unconditional love whether you believe it or not…but if you refuse it willingly, God will not oblige you; and the Bible is very clear that God wants all His children saved.

Now you tell me, Allah will show his mercy only after you die and it depends if you were obediant or not…is THAT unconditional love?
 
Salaam inJesus;
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inJESUS:
God’s love is unconditional
I showed in my previous post that it was not the case. Did I get the verses wrong?
Jesus died for us
According to the Biblical account Jesus did not die, he was killed. We say that someone died for something (i.e. his country) when he willingly offers himself to death for that something; Jesus did not offer himself, to the contrary was not the Jews elders, he was almost released by Pilate , and he did not say to Pilate “hold on, please do not release me, I must die for the sins of humanity, this is my fate”. He condemned the one who delivered him to Pilate to receive the greater sin; is this behavior of someone willing to die? I think that Pilate, the Jews elders and Judas must be celebrated as heroes, why not? Did not they help the beautiful plan of salvation come true?
Jesus did not come for “some” people but to all humanity…he died for me and you and your children and everyone.
Jesus died for me and my children!!! This is I reject with all the force Allah (SWT) gave me. InJESUS, now I am offended., please use some restraint. Where did you get such an idea? Did Jesus state it? I have read all the gospels but I could nowhere find Jesus stating that he will die for the sins of humankind, this pagan belief was circulating in the region in those times.

“Many Pagan religious belief systems permeated the Mediterranean region during the 1st century CE. There were numerous male heroes, saviors and god-men within Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Hindu, and other pantheons of Gods whose lives had many points of similarities to Jesus. Of these, the Egyptian God Horus probably had life events attributed to him which were closest match to those of Jesus. Yet, Horus was worshipped in Egypt thousands of years before the first century CE when Jesus is believed to have been ministering in Palestine.

In order to compete with those religions, Christianity would have had to describe Jesus in terms that matched or surpassed the local myths, stories and legends. The authors of the gospels may well have picked up themes from other sources and added them to their writings in order to make Christianity more credible to a Pagan, largely Greek world. By peeling away such foreign material, they might be able to get a clearer picture of what Jesus taught and how he lived. By stripping away these accretions that have become attached to the life, story and teachings of Jesus, they might get closer to the historical Jesus.They can better understand his mission, and learn from his teachings” More reading here and here
Now you tell me, Allah will show his mercy only after you die and it depends if you were obediant or not…is THAT unconditional love?
I you read the holy Qur’an you will come across the many promises made to the believers. Allah (SWT), we have no doubt, will keep His promises, but it does not keep us from working for His pleasure. Whatever one does, one can never give Allah (SWT) His due worship. He gave me the sight; can I pay Him in return for this blessing? He gave the hearing; can I pay Him in return for this blessing? He gave and gave me and gave me…All I can say is Alhamdu Lillah, The Merciful, The Forgiver, The Off-Forgiving.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
wait… if we are all sinful…then how come that “let the one without sin cast the first stone” make any sense… since we are ALL sinful…
 
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Muslim:
wait… if we are all sinful…then how come that “let the one without sin cast the first stone” make any sense… since we are ALL sinful…
Muslim, here it is in the Bible. I think if you read it the verse you’re asking about will make sense.

"1 And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. 3 And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, 4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou? 6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more."

John 8 vs 1-11.
 
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Ella:
Muslim, here it is in the Bible. I think if you read it the verse you’re asking about will make sense.

"1 And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. 3 And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, 4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou? 6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more."

John 8 vs 1-11.
hmm… okay i did not know that… thanks for explaining… i was always confused by that… now I understand.
 
Joseph_Alison said:
Salaam inJesus;
I showed in my previous post that it was not the case. Did I get the verses wrong?
Salam Joseph,
you looked at the consequence of “rejecting” God’s love for you thru Jesus. the night before being killed, Jesus did not say : i die for this and this . This is unconditional love which means that Jesus came for all : sinner and righteous, gentil and Jew, poor and rich, healthy and sick ecc…in other words, God showed his unconditional love and mercy to all, and we have no merit for what God did.

Can you now answer my previous question for you regarding Allah’s mercy ? thx
According to the Biblical account Jesus did not die, he was killed. We say that someone died for something (i.e. his country) when he willingly offers himself to death for that something; Jesus did not offer himself, to the contrary was not the Jews elders, he was almost released by Pilate , and he did not say to Pilate “hold on, please do not release me, I must die for the sins of humanity, this is my fate”. He condemned the one who delivered him to Pilate to receive the greater sin; is this behavior of someone willing to die? I think that Pilate, the Jews elders and Judas must be celebrated as heroes, why not? Did not they help the beautiful plan of salvation come true?
according to Biblical account, Jesus talked about his death many times and he knew his hour.
As to Judas, i don’t remember Jesus “cursing” him…i remember the passage when Jesus said : woe to him…it’s not a curse, it’s a cry of agony …
Jesus died for me and my children!!! This is I reject with all the force Allah (SWT) gave me. InJESUS, now I am offended., please use some restraint. Where did you get such an idea? Did Jesus state it? I have read all the gospels but I could nowhere find Jesus stating that he will die for the sins of humankind, this pagan belief was circulating in the region in those times.
bro, first you do not believe he died 🙂 anyway, the Bible says he died for all … if these people said this, it is because they know more than you or i…Jesus is not a sentence, Jesus is everything he said and did…If i believe he died willingly, it’d be absurd to believe he died for some people. the Bible is not a doctrine book, you have to read it all to understand what the authors wanted to convey in their testimony.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” Lord Jesus

who are Jesus’ sheep that he gave his life for? his sheep are all nations.

“He is the propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also **for the sins of the whole world” ** John

“And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.”Paul

who desires **all men ** to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.
“Many Pagan religious belief systems permeated the Mediterranean region during the 1st century CE. There were numerous male heroes, saviors and god-men within Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Hindu, and other pantheons of Gods whose lives had many points of similarities to Jesus. Of these, the Egyptian God Horus probably had life events attributed to him which were closest match to those of Jesus. Yet, Horus was worshipped in Egypt thousands of years before the first century CE when Jesus is believed to have been ministering in Palestine.
during mohammad’s time there were pagans as well…do you believe those who wrote the quran SHOULD have included pagan ideas as well? the death of Jesus is reported in NON-Christian writings as well…it is a fact, not a myth. And Jesus’ death is talked about by Jesus himself ,the apostles, early Christians (1st century on )and non-Christians… This is a fact. Jesus being God is faith in testimonies (Bible) and Christian and non-Christian writings, and personal experience…to know who Jesus is, is to experience Him.
In order to compete with those religions, Christianity would have had to describe Jesus in terms that matched or surpassed the local myths, stories and legends. The authors of the gospels may well have picked up themes from other sources and added them to their writings in order to make Christianity more credible to a Pagan, largely Greek world.
i think you lack some history about Bible translations to many languages in different countries and about manuscripts starting first century on…in order to understand this topic, you must look for manuscripts.

do you know arabic?

Salam.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam Vickie;

I am not so sure Vickie. My reading of the Bible tells me otherwise and I am not talking about the OT side of it.

Jn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The conclusion from the above verse is that the one who does not believe in the begotten son should perish. Vickie this is not an unconditional love. How could God so love the world while putting a condition to his love? It is like God saying:” I love all of you, but you should believe in my only begotten son if you don’t want to perish” How many people did not even hear about the begotten son?

Jn 14:21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

If someone claims to love Jesus then he should keep his commandments and only then he will be loved by the Father. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love as you want us believe.

Jn 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

You should keep the words of Jesus if you truly love him, only then the Father would love you. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Jn 16:27 “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”

The Father loved the disciples because they loved Jesus and believed that he was sent by the Father, meaning they obeyed the messenger, this is the condition for the love of God. Vickie, this is not an unconditional love.

Salaam.
Joseph.
The only “god” who loves conditionally is “Allah” who loves Muslims only!

Vickie
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam inJesus;

Jesus died for me and my children!!! This is I reject with all the force Allah (SWT) gave me. InJESUS, now I am offended., please use some restraint. Where did you get such an idea? Did Jesus state it? I have read all the gospels but I could nowhere find Jesus stating that he will die for the sins of humankind, this pagan belief was circulating in the region in those times.
If you’re offended by what InJesus said, so am I by your comparing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to pagan gods! Is this what your “scholars” are teaching Muslims?

And where’s your proof that anything that Mohammed said is true, and not a pack of lies? After all, all you have is his word and nothing else. And please don’t mention that the Quran is a “miracle”, because I do not and never will accept that. The Quran is nothing more than the ramblings of Mohammed. I could say a lot more than that, but I will refrain.

In another post, you mentioned that you would not use our scriptures against us, but that is exactly what you’ve been doing and Muslims are always accusing us of taking things out of context and yet they do the same!

Muslims on this forum are always complaining about Islam bashing, but never notice when one of them does the same thing. There seems to be a double standard here. We are not supposed to offend Muslims, but lately it seems all we Christians have been doing is trying to defend our faith from the relentless attacks made by Muslims on this site. Freedomm and Ashok have been particularly disgusting, but then it’s always okay to bash Christians, after all, Muslims know that they’re the “best of people” while we Christians are destined to go to hell as per “Allah’s” instructions to Mohammed, correct?

Vickie
 
hey Vickie, what did Jesus do when he was insulted and attacked? and didn’t he say we will face the same and that peoplewill kill us thinking they are doing it for God when in fact they know neither the Father nor the Son? and didn’t he ask you to rejoice? 😃
 
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inJESUS:
hey Vickie, what did Jesus do when he was insulted and attacked? and didn’t he say we will face the same and that peoplewill kill us thinking they are doing it for God when in fact they know neither the Father nor the Son? and didn’t he ask you to rejoice? 😃
Yes, you’re absolutely right! Thanks for reminding me! My latin blood got the better of me there!

Vickie
 
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