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Puzzled
Guest
Tim and Amethyst;
Well said!
Should your position be true, that is the right approach to take.
Well said!
Should your position be true, that is the right approach to take.
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J
Jessica
Guest
As a young student at a Jesuit University, let me see if I can provide some insight into the motives of many of my peers who convert.
I see the most young Catholics coverting to a “nondenominational” religion. (These are not necessarily “Bible” Churches.) It seems that these converts go to Mass less and less, succumb to the American attitude that one religion is equal to another, and then decide that morals and beliefs (contraception, homosexual marriages, etc.) vary according to the individual. When I talk to these people, they tend not to like the word sin and say that something which would be a sin to one person would not be a sin for another person. Gradually, I have seen former Catholics begin to attend nondenominational Churches who espouse the beliefs that everything you do is ok, just as long as you believe in Jesus. Their Church amounts to nothing more than a group of people who rent out a movie theater and sing Christian rock songs for an hour, all the while telling people that whatever lifestyle they choose is ok, just as long as they know Jesus. Church is a warm fuzzy to them; something which affirms their lifestyles and assures them they’re saved. There is nothing wrong with singing songs of praise to Jesus for an hour, but Jesus loves us too much to stop there. He gave us the Church, and the highest form of worship possible- the Mass. Praise Jesus! It seems to me that many young people leave because of moral relativism and a desire for an easier Christianity that is confined to Sunday only.
I see the most young Catholics coverting to a “nondenominational” religion. (These are not necessarily “Bible” Churches.) It seems that these converts go to Mass less and less, succumb to the American attitude that one religion is equal to another, and then decide that morals and beliefs (contraception, homosexual marriages, etc.) vary according to the individual. When I talk to these people, they tend not to like the word sin and say that something which would be a sin to one person would not be a sin for another person. Gradually, I have seen former Catholics begin to attend nondenominational Churches who espouse the beliefs that everything you do is ok, just as long as you believe in Jesus. Their Church amounts to nothing more than a group of people who rent out a movie theater and sing Christian rock songs for an hour, all the while telling people that whatever lifestyle they choose is ok, just as long as they know Jesus. Church is a warm fuzzy to them; something which affirms their lifestyles and assures them they’re saved. There is nothing wrong with singing songs of praise to Jesus for an hour, but Jesus loves us too much to stop there. He gave us the Church, and the highest form of worship possible- the Mass. Praise Jesus! It seems to me that many young people leave because of moral relativism and a desire for an easier Christianity that is confined to Sunday only.
M
mplamann
Guest
Herrobp stole my thunder. I would say that especially among the younger generation (this is just going by my observations with no formal analysis being done) that humanism is the biggest force drawing people away from the Catholic Church. The idea that man is able to solve every problem through intellect and who needs a god then? I would consider humanism to be a force to be reckoned with in our current age. It has been taught as fact in schools for a long time (especially at the university level), so it doesn’t surprise me.
I really do think that if the Church improved it’s ability to educate Catholics on the real beliefs of the Church, people would be less likely to move to other religions or different Christian denominations. I don’t think the many of the reasons people leave is because they don’t agree with Church teachings – I think it is often misunderstanding of Church teachings and Tradition.
Just my 2 cents based on very non-scientific observation…
Mark
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mplamann
Guest
The leadership is not the Church. You and I (and all of us) are the Church. No church or individual parish is perfect, of course. I have had the opposite experience as you have stated – I found that the Catholic teachings encourage me to live a much fuller and Christ-centered life than any of the teachings in the non-denominational churches I used to attend. Likewise, I have found wonderful examples of role models in people in my parish that I use as inspiration. Again, no single person is perfect, but I find that most everyone has some aspect of their life worth seeing as role model marterial. I especially have started to look to the saints as a way to guide myself in my life in Christ.
Just out of curiosity, what aspects did you feel the RCC failed in teaching how to live the Chrisitan life?
Mark
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mplamann
Guest
I’m not sure about the second part of your statement (only the “better educated” Protestants converting to Catholicism), but I whole-heartedly agree with your first statement. I feel that a couple generations of most Catholics that many people have been very poorly catechized. Not truely knowing what you believe or why you believe it leads to people much more easily being swayed by unsound or “simple” theology.
D
Derffred
Guest
I converted to Catholism after being raised Baptist. A couple people have pointed out that people, especially the young, in the church don’t know the teachings of the church. Going through RCIA as an adult was greatly beneficial. I find myself knowing more about the how and why of the church than a lot of the life long catholics I know. The beauty of mass is the lack of “rock concert” atmosphere that many churches are providing. Pariitioners can be blind to this beauty if they don’t know the teaching of the church.
K
Kathleen_Mary
Guest
It is the faith (evangelical or fundamental) that believe in the rapture trap.
I have three family members, one subscribes to his “own” church, and, two over the last year, have left The Faith to go to a church that believes in the rapture.
I have three family members, one subscribes to his “own” church, and, two over the last year, have left The Faith to go to a church that believes in the rapture.
D
Dane
Guest
Many of the lapsed Catholics I am familiar with have abandoned organized religion altogether and instead profess only secular beliefs without a religious context or perhaps hold some sort of vague pseudo-Buddhist/New Age beliefs which they never really clarify for themselves or others.
They may retain an equally vague view of Jesus as a good man who died an unfortunate death, but prefer to see him more as a Jewish Mahatma Gandhi or Buddha. He’s less challenging that way.
I suppose if it could be said that they practice any religion at all it would best be called *the religion of American culture and daily *life, devoid of any doctrine, ritual or prayer and certainly lacking the sense that what they do and what they believe in this life matters for time and eternity.
Any minor passion they may have once felt for God in their childhood has been replaced by a certain adult-onset ennui.
Beyond that, many have also been taken in by various Evangelical denominations.
They may retain an equally vague view of Jesus as a good man who died an unfortunate death, but prefer to see him more as a Jewish Mahatma Gandhi or Buddha. He’s less challenging that way.
I suppose if it could be said that they practice any religion at all it would best be called *the religion of American culture and daily *life, devoid of any doctrine, ritual or prayer and certainly lacking the sense that what they do and what they believe in this life matters for time and eternity.
Any minor passion they may have once felt for God in their childhood has been replaced by a certain adult-onset ennui.
Beyond that, many have also been taken in by various Evangelical denominations.
C
c0achmcguirk
Guest
What grabbed me (I’m a former Catholic) was the Bible, but it all started with the Gospel presented in a new and fresh way at Young Life camp. Young Life is a worldwide ministry dedicated to High School and Middle School kids.
I came back from camp “born again” and zealous for the Roman Catholic Church. I bought apologetic books and talked to my priest, CYO leaders, and once a monk, in order to get ammo for defending the faith. I also began to read the Bible I got for confirmation more regularly.
When I got to college I was a dedicated Roman Catholic apologist, frequently engaging my Lutheran roommate on topics such as Papal Infallibility, Veneration of Saints, and whathaveyou.
I was growing aware of problems however when one of the apologetic works I bought (I can’t find it anymore, sadly) defended the teaching that giving money to have the Mass said in a dead person’s name would lessen the time they spent in purgatory. That shook my faith a bit as it seemed so un-Biblical. I tried to ignore the nagging feeling in the back of my mind and continued to invite my non-Catholic friends to mass with me at the Newman Center on campus.
A friend of mine brought up the fact that indulgences were still in use by the Church, I started to investigate, found that it was true, and that was all it took for me to start looking elsewhere.
I ended up finding a “seeker-friendly” non-denominational Southern Baptist-aligned church. I enjoyed it because they actually had you bring your Bibles to Church and you got to use them. The pastor would dive into passages in the Bible, explain them, and inspire us in ways to apply the teachings to our lives. The music was good, too, and they would do funny skits and contemplative dramas to illustrate the lesson of the week. It seemed everyone in the Church lived their faith, unlike the parishes I was accustomed to being a part of…the old get drunk Saturday, confess it on Sunday type of attitude in my home church really turned me off.
I was dating a Catholic girl, I still considered myself Catholic, but I was trying to see what else was out there. Fast forward a bit…my friend drops the Calvinist bomb on me, I reject it outright at first because it just seemed so wrong–but as I studied it more, it’s clear teaching in the Bible seemed more evident to me. I also became interested more in apologetics and started listening to debates with James White, and the more I learned the farther I got away from Rome.
Now, I consider myself Reformed (a Calvinist) and I dislike the “seeker-friendly” movement in Protestantism today. But I will say that it was probably the most instrumental (along with the Bible–Romans and Ephesians, especially) that got me to see Roman Catholicism was not the True Church.
Anyway, I’m not trying to kick off any debates, just give Catholics some better insight into what would lead me away from Rome.
God bless,
c0ach
I came back from camp “born again” and zealous for the Roman Catholic Church. I bought apologetic books and talked to my priest, CYO leaders, and once a monk, in order to get ammo for defending the faith. I also began to read the Bible I got for confirmation more regularly.
When I got to college I was a dedicated Roman Catholic apologist, frequently engaging my Lutheran roommate on topics such as Papal Infallibility, Veneration of Saints, and whathaveyou.
I was growing aware of problems however when one of the apologetic works I bought (I can’t find it anymore, sadly) defended the teaching that giving money to have the Mass said in a dead person’s name would lessen the time they spent in purgatory. That shook my faith a bit as it seemed so un-Biblical. I tried to ignore the nagging feeling in the back of my mind and continued to invite my non-Catholic friends to mass with me at the Newman Center on campus.
A friend of mine brought up the fact that indulgences were still in use by the Church, I started to investigate, found that it was true, and that was all it took for me to start looking elsewhere.
I ended up finding a “seeker-friendly” non-denominational Southern Baptist-aligned church. I enjoyed it because they actually had you bring your Bibles to Church and you got to use them. The pastor would dive into passages in the Bible, explain them, and inspire us in ways to apply the teachings to our lives. The music was good, too, and they would do funny skits and contemplative dramas to illustrate the lesson of the week. It seemed everyone in the Church lived their faith, unlike the parishes I was accustomed to being a part of…the old get drunk Saturday, confess it on Sunday type of attitude in my home church really turned me off.
I was dating a Catholic girl, I still considered myself Catholic, but I was trying to see what else was out there. Fast forward a bit…my friend drops the Calvinist bomb on me, I reject it outright at first because it just seemed so wrong–but as I studied it more, it’s clear teaching in the Bible seemed more evident to me. I also became interested more in apologetics and started listening to debates with James White, and the more I learned the farther I got away from Rome.
Now, I consider myself Reformed (a Calvinist) and I dislike the “seeker-friendly” movement in Protestantism today. But I will say that it was probably the most instrumental (along with the Bible–Romans and Ephesians, especially) that got me to see Roman Catholicism was not the True Church.
Anyway, I’m not trying to kick off any debates, just give Catholics some better insight into what would lead me away from Rome.
God bless,
c0ach
I
itsjustdave1988
Guest
Secularism is grabbing the most Catholics, I think.
I
itsjustdave1988
Guest
Hey coach, long time no chat. 
C
c0achmcguirk
Guest
Hey Dave, good to see you here. When did you add the “1988” to the end of your nick and what does it mean?Hey coach, long time no chat.
God bless,
c0ach
I
itsjustdave1988
Guest
1988 is my usual add-on, however, at the Envoy forum, my account got messed up and I had to re-establish another slightly modified.
1988 is the year I married my beautiful bride Heidi.
God bless,
Dave
1988 is the year I married my beautiful bride Heidi.
God bless,
Dave
C
c0achmcguirk
Guest
itsjustdave1988 said:1988 is the year I married my beautiful bride Heidi.
Hey, that’s pretty sweet. Dave. :tiphat:
I’ll bet you two have a strong marriage–that’s awesome!
God bless,
c0ach
J
journey
Guest
Greetings!
As a former Southern Baptist, I have noticed that most former Catholics where I live end up going to a Baptist church. IMO, Southern Baptists are fundamentalists in that they believe “once saved, always saved”, and also b/c they interpret the scriptures literally. I’m sure there are other reasons, as well, that I can’t think of at the moment. BTW, I also know of former Catholics who are now JW’s and Mormons. Our Lord prayed for unity of faith–we should be doing the same.
As a former Southern Baptist, I have noticed that most former Catholics where I live end up going to a Baptist church. IMO, Southern Baptists are fundamentalists in that they believe “once saved, always saved”, and also b/c they interpret the scriptures literally. I’m sure there are other reasons, as well, that I can’t think of at the moment. BTW, I also know of former Catholics who are now JW’s and Mormons. Our Lord prayed for unity of faith–we should be doing the same.
J
jschwehm
Guest
As a former Jehovah’s Witness and Missouri Synod Lutheran who is now Catholic, I can tell you that there are lots of former Catholics in both of those groups.
My wife who was raised Catholic and then became a Jehovah’s Witness but recently reverted back to the Catholic Faith will tell you that the reason she left the Catholic faith was because her Catechesis was horrible.
In any case, when my wife and I found a parish here in Kohler, WI we asked our Priest if we could assist him by leading an adult Sunday School class between the Masses on Sunday morning. He agreed to allow us to do that.
During Lent we had discussions on The Passion movie using the book “100 Questions on the Passion” as a guide. We averaged about 40 people in attendance each Sunday.
After Easter, our Priest did a series of homilies on the Mass Readings from the Book of Revelation. I told him that I would lead a series of classes that piggy backed on his homilies on the Book of Revelation. We did this for three Sundays in May. We averaged about 30 people in attendance for this.
The response to these classes has been overwhelmingly positive. And, I think it has re-energized and reinvigorated our very faithful and holy priest. By the way, we had a Protestant visitor to our classes on the Passion movie. Since that class this lady has been attending mass regularly with her husband and their entire family will be entering RCIA this Fall.
I wrote an article about this on the catholic exchange website.
Here is the link:
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=22753
Jeff S.
My wife who was raised Catholic and then became a Jehovah’s Witness but recently reverted back to the Catholic Faith will tell you that the reason she left the Catholic faith was because her Catechesis was horrible.
In any case, when my wife and I found a parish here in Kohler, WI we asked our Priest if we could assist him by leading an adult Sunday School class between the Masses on Sunday morning. He agreed to allow us to do that.
During Lent we had discussions on The Passion movie using the book “100 Questions on the Passion” as a guide. We averaged about 40 people in attendance each Sunday.
After Easter, our Priest did a series of homilies on the Mass Readings from the Book of Revelation. I told him that I would lead a series of classes that piggy backed on his homilies on the Book of Revelation. We did this for three Sundays in May. We averaged about 30 people in attendance for this.
The response to these classes has been overwhelmingly positive. And, I think it has re-energized and reinvigorated our very faithful and holy priest. By the way, we had a Protestant visitor to our classes on the Passion movie. Since that class this lady has been attending mass regularly with her husband and their entire family will be entering RCIA this Fall.
I wrote an article about this on the catholic exchange website.
Here is the link:
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=22753
Jeff S.
1
1962Missal
Guest
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Geocacher
Guest
My vote was Mormon.
I have seen people come into the Mormon church from the catholic Church.
I am LDS, and been suffering Cronic Fatigue, where doing normal things become quite hard to do, but I do Stock shelves for Grocery Nite Stock, and I listen to EWTN via my headphones at nite,and at home at times.
I find that I can be very spiritual, listening to catholic radio at work, and that the catholic way seems more supportive to my spiritual needs than the Mormon church. I tend to be more into the spirit at work than away from work, but because of Cronic sluggishness, I have been distanced by my co-workers, where non of the workers are even interested in a GOD, or that they just are not full of the spirit at work. My Health problems have made me more catholic, because of it’s deep prayers, and the wanting to get away from materialism, and the wordly things of life.
ISSUES within or between churches can be anti-spirit, and very turbulent storms between them at times. How do you become a light unto others in these crazy times. Lots of deep prayer, and distancing yourself from Materialism and worldly thoughs, is my fairly new approch.
The Mormon Church had gone through crazy times back in the 1800’s, but it seems very muted now, from all that stuff that went on in the 1800’s in that church. The mormon church seems to be missing some things, like deep prayer, and the sacrement of the Bread and Wine. Deep Prayer, Communion, and the Passion Of the Christ seem missing.
I have seen people come into the Mormon church from the catholic Church.
I am LDS, and been suffering Cronic Fatigue, where doing normal things become quite hard to do, but I do Stock shelves for Grocery Nite Stock, and I listen to EWTN via my headphones at nite,and at home at times.
I find that I can be very spiritual, listening to catholic radio at work, and that the catholic way seems more supportive to my spiritual needs than the Mormon church. I tend to be more into the spirit at work than away from work, but because of Cronic sluggishness, I have been distanced by my co-workers, where non of the workers are even interested in a GOD, or that they just are not full of the spirit at work. My Health problems have made me more catholic, because of it’s deep prayers, and the wanting to get away from materialism, and the wordly things of life.
ISSUES within or between churches can be anti-spirit, and very turbulent storms between them at times. How do you become a light unto others in these crazy times. Lots of deep prayer, and distancing yourself from Materialism and worldly thoughs, is my fairly new approch.
The Mormon Church had gone through crazy times back in the 1800’s, but it seems very muted now, from all that stuff that went on in the 1800’s in that church. The mormon church seems to be missing some things, like deep prayer, and the sacrement of the Bread and Wine. Deep Prayer, Communion, and the Passion Of the Christ seem missing.
S
SPH1
Guest
Reading through these posts, it seems to me that with regard to the majority of Catholics who leave the Church I must say: “good riddance.” The Church is better off without them.
M
Melchior
Guest
I left the Catholic Church officially at age 18. But I left emotionally for Evangelicalism ten years earlier.
I can still remember being an 8 year old boy terrified of Hell and asking my mom and the Priest and CCD teachers how I could avoid Hell. I never once heard trust in and follow Christ. It was always about being “good”. Well my very troubled (at the time) brother, who is ten years my senior, became a born again Christian as we used to be called. He was a different person and it blew me away. He spoke to me for the first time in three years and told me he loved me. He called me on the phone and told me that we are saved by trusting in Christ. I prayed with him and I was finally at peace. And I finally understood that Christ died for my sins and He himself is my salvation. The overwhelming fear of Hell was gone. Remember I was only eight years old.
The problem is the the Catholic Church may have the truth but many a priest and CCD teacher over many generations don’t know the very basics. They major in the minors so to speak. They focus so much on the the mechanics of the Sacraments and not screwing up and getting hit by a car outside a state of grace etc. that they forget to focus primarily of what Christ has done for us.
Now I am drawn to Catholicism, but it is counter-intuitive given the way the church failed me and many others by failing to teach the simplicity of the Gospel. And make no mistakes it was a failure of the Church that an eight year old boy could not find peace when he looked for it within the church. So the draw of evangelicalism makes alot of sense. They, for all their faults and schism, do tend to get “my yolk is easy and my burden is lite” better than the average Catholic. In know here in the Boston area if you asked your average Catholic how you get to Heaven they would say something to the effect of “Well, I am a good person so I will go to Heaven”. So in all fairness the Catholic Church has done a pretty lousy job in recent generations of teaching what is of primary importance. I cna recall getting kicked out of CCD at 15 for orrecting my CCD teacher was really clueless as were just about all my CCD teachers.
None of my criticism above does not mean that I am convinced that the Catholic Church is not THE Chruch. But she loses people because she has failed by ordaining many of the wrong people and failed to teach the teachers. That is why I am became a protestant. And that is why the Reformation happened. The church let it’s people down. Of course I now think schism was probably the wrong answer. But evangelicalism at least gave me a home and christian fellowship and the peace of the Gospel and not the terror of judgement alone.
All that said I think places like this board and the many converts from evangelicalism are bringing much of what is needed back into the Church.You can actually see God using Protestantism to make the Church better. That is encouraging to this former Catholic who is greatly disillusioned with Protestantism after 17 years in it.
Mel
I can still remember being an 8 year old boy terrified of Hell and asking my mom and the Priest and CCD teachers how I could avoid Hell. I never once heard trust in and follow Christ. It was always about being “good”. Well my very troubled (at the time) brother, who is ten years my senior, became a born again Christian as we used to be called. He was a different person and it blew me away. He spoke to me for the first time in three years and told me he loved me. He called me on the phone and told me that we are saved by trusting in Christ. I prayed with him and I was finally at peace. And I finally understood that Christ died for my sins and He himself is my salvation. The overwhelming fear of Hell was gone. Remember I was only eight years old.
The problem is the the Catholic Church may have the truth but many a priest and CCD teacher over many generations don’t know the very basics. They major in the minors so to speak. They focus so much on the the mechanics of the Sacraments and not screwing up and getting hit by a car outside a state of grace etc. that they forget to focus primarily of what Christ has done for us.
Now I am drawn to Catholicism, but it is counter-intuitive given the way the church failed me and many others by failing to teach the simplicity of the Gospel. And make no mistakes it was a failure of the Church that an eight year old boy could not find peace when he looked for it within the church. So the draw of evangelicalism makes alot of sense. They, for all their faults and schism, do tend to get “my yolk is easy and my burden is lite” better than the average Catholic. In know here in the Boston area if you asked your average Catholic how you get to Heaven they would say something to the effect of “Well, I am a good person so I will go to Heaven”. So in all fairness the Catholic Church has done a pretty lousy job in recent generations of teaching what is of primary importance. I cna recall getting kicked out of CCD at 15 for orrecting my CCD teacher was really clueless as were just about all my CCD teachers.
None of my criticism above does not mean that I am convinced that the Catholic Church is not THE Chruch. But she loses people because she has failed by ordaining many of the wrong people and failed to teach the teachers. That is why I am became a protestant. And that is why the Reformation happened. The church let it’s people down. Of course I now think schism was probably the wrong answer. But evangelicalism at least gave me a home and christian fellowship and the peace of the Gospel and not the terror of judgement alone.
All that said I think places like this board and the many converts from evangelicalism are bringing much of what is needed back into the Church.You can actually see God using Protestantism to make the Church better. That is encouraging to this former Catholic who is greatly disillusioned with Protestantism after 17 years in it.
Mel
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