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SPOKENWORD
Guest
SPH1, Now thats a good christian attitude. Makes me want to come back home.
- Status
C
CD4
Guest
**Thank you for asking this interesting and important question. **
This is my first post on the forum…I heard about it while listening to Sacred Heart Radio, in Cincinnati, and signed up while they were still talking about it! I am looking forward to being a regular contributor. I will introduce myself more fully in another post.
It has been my personal experience that Catholics who leave the Catholic Church for another church usually opt for an Evangelical one. I believe there are a couple of reasons for this.
**Firs of all, Evangelical churches are known for their warmth and welcoming spirit. A Catholic who is hurt, or angry, feels he/she has found a haven…A place that will accept him/her just the way they are…No particualr rules to abide by, and no particualr doctrines to get in the way of a simple, but often deep and sincere faith. **
**Another reason Catholics join Evangelical churches is that they are drawn in by the claims of being Bible based, and the total Jesus and Me experience. **
Evangelicals are, by and large, openly enthusiastic about their faith…They are eager to share it with others…especially necomers to their church.
Catholics often love the Worship and Praise music characteristic of Evangelical churches, and are often moved by the good sermons and spontaneous prayer. Intercessory prayer is a big thing, too…All groups use it…Choirs, Sunday School classes, etc…They so often pray for one another for the needs of others.
We live in a mid-sized community in the Greater Cincinnati Area…There are two large Evangelical churches (across the street from each other, in fact) here, and both have a goodly number of former Cathoilcs in their membership. And…They send teams to Third World countries to minister to Catholics there…Wanting to make them “real” Christians…
Our Church needs to address this problem in some meaningful way. Not sure what this might be, but I do know it is a growing problem.
This is my first post on the forum…I heard about it while listening to Sacred Heart Radio, in Cincinnati, and signed up while they were still talking about it! I am looking forward to being a regular contributor. I will introduce myself more fully in another post.
It has been my personal experience that Catholics who leave the Catholic Church for another church usually opt for an Evangelical one. I believe there are a couple of reasons for this.
**Firs of all, Evangelical churches are known for their warmth and welcoming spirit. A Catholic who is hurt, or angry, feels he/she has found a haven…A place that will accept him/her just the way they are…No particualr rules to abide by, and no particualr doctrines to get in the way of a simple, but often deep and sincere faith. **
**Another reason Catholics join Evangelical churches is that they are drawn in by the claims of being Bible based, and the total Jesus and Me experience. **
Evangelicals are, by and large, openly enthusiastic about their faith…They are eager to share it with others…especially necomers to their church.
Catholics often love the Worship and Praise music characteristic of Evangelical churches, and are often moved by the good sermons and spontaneous prayer. Intercessory prayer is a big thing, too…All groups use it…Choirs, Sunday School classes, etc…They so often pray for one another for the needs of others.
We live in a mid-sized community in the Greater Cincinnati Area…There are two large Evangelical churches (across the street from each other, in fact) here, and both have a goodly number of former Cathoilcs in their membership. And…They send teams to Third World countries to minister to Catholics there…Wanting to make them “real” Christians…
Our Church needs to address this problem in some meaningful way. Not sure what this might be, but I do know it is a growing problem.
P
Penni
Guest
i would love to hear responses on that one - oftentimes, they leave because they feel as though they aren’t being “fed,” and are drawn by long sermons and emotion, rather than being fed by the Eucharist and starting groups within the church they are leaving. looking to others to fulfill their needs instead of taking initiative on their own.
how many return to the Church after feeling empty?
just wondering.
(by the way - i am a convert
…)
how many return to the Church after feeling empty?
just wondering.
(by the way - i am a convert
…)
L
Liz
Guest
My parish religious education director (one of her daughters is a mormon, with four mormon children and no husband) told me in front of my first year Confirmation class (7th grade), that all religions are equally valid. THAT is why Catholics leave–how can we feel positive about something that is “equally valid”? (BTW I am a conservative Catholic).
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CD4
Guest
<<<Yeah, I hate that “I wasn’t fed” line. Yeah, you were, you were literally being fed, the actual Body of Christ>>>
**I don’t like this either…What does one mean when he/she says this? It is my experience that the usual implication is that there wasn’t enough emphasis on the Bible and on Jesus…We know this isn’t true, but why do those who make the claim of not being “fed” by the Catholic Church feel this way? **
Evangelical churhces are much more into the emotional high…The music and sermon are geared to making people feel charged up. It works, too. It is easy to mistake “feelings” for “truth”…I know that even I, who knows the difference can be carreid away by the emotion of the moment in an Evangelical church…
**I don’t like this either…What does one mean when he/she says this? It is my experience that the usual implication is that there wasn’t enough emphasis on the Bible and on Jesus…We know this isn’t true, but why do those who make the claim of not being “fed” by the Catholic Church feel this way? **
Evangelical churhces are much more into the emotional high…The music and sermon are geared to making people feel charged up. It works, too. It is easy to mistake “feelings” for “truth”…I know that even I, who knows the difference can be carreid away by the emotion of the moment in an Evangelical church…
C
CD4
Guest
<<<how many return to the Church after feeling empty?>>>
Penni,
**This is a good question…I would venture a guess that many do eventually return, though it might take years to do so. **
Although a person may “leave” the Catholic Church, I don’t believe the Church ever "leaves’ him/her…Many who belong to other churches will, if asked, stiil identify themselves as Catholic, even if they are attending another church…
Being Catholic is a way of life that can’t be easily erased…Changing from Catholic to one of the Protestant faiths isn’t like changing from Methodist to Presbyterian, or even to Lutheranism…Catholicism is so much fuller and so much richer…You just can’t turn it off as you would a water tap…It continues to flow in your heart, no matter what.
**Those who have left the Church often find themselves longing for the sacraments, particularly the Eucharist…They eventually come to know that the Communion celebrated in Protestant churches…even if it is celebrated weekly, as is done in my husband’s non-denom. church…is not enough…It is not the same, and that’s a fact. **
The longing becomes too much…They have to return…
Penni,
**This is a good question…I would venture a guess that many do eventually return, though it might take years to do so. **
Although a person may “leave” the Catholic Church, I don’t believe the Church ever "leaves’ him/her…Many who belong to other churches will, if asked, stiil identify themselves as Catholic, even if they are attending another church…
Being Catholic is a way of life that can’t be easily erased…Changing from Catholic to one of the Protestant faiths isn’t like changing from Methodist to Presbyterian, or even to Lutheranism…Catholicism is so much fuller and so much richer…You just can’t turn it off as you would a water tap…It continues to flow in your heart, no matter what.
**Those who have left the Church often find themselves longing for the sacraments, particularly the Eucharist…They eventually come to know that the Communion celebrated in Protestant churches…even if it is celebrated weekly, as is done in my husband’s non-denom. church…is not enough…It is not the same, and that’s a fact. **
The longing becomes too much…They have to return…
D
Detroit_Sue
Guest
My husband and I are business owners. It’s no secret that he is a Catholic deacon. You have no idea how many people will tell us, "I used to be Catholic, but now I’m a Christian!" It’s really sad. Some people seek out dialogue with us, and some are rabidly anti-Catholic. A lot of the fundamentalist ministers in this area are telling strayed Catholics that their BAPTISM was invalid. Yes, fundamentalism is grabbing a lot of people around here. Those “Left Behind” books aren’t helping the undercatechized masses, either.
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CD4
Guest
Sue…I understand how you feel about former Catholics saying that they are now “real Christians”.
Once, while attending the Sunday School class I sometimes attend with my husband (non-denon. Evangelical) the teacher told us about a mission trip he and some others had just made to a Central American country. It seems that they had won over a couple of Catholic boys, and when they returned home, there was an email explaining that the boys’ mother and sisters had “become Christians”, too. Everyone in the class clapped…Everyone but me, of course. I have to tell you that I felt very hurt.
**While most Evangelicals will concede that some Cathoiics may actually be Christians, they do believe that the majority are probably not. **
My husband was re-baptized, saying that he felt that God wanted him to do so…He in no way felt that he had not been a Christian before, and the person who worked with him agreed. But, in order to become a member of this church one must be immersed…Because they believe they do things the way the first Christians did them, and they believe that immersion was the only way Christians were baptized.
Of course, the Catholic Church does recogniize immersion as the ordinary way of baptism, but does not insist upon it. I have worked with the RCIA for years, and know that we accept all Christian baptisms…with the exception of Mormom, and they are not…strictly speaking…
Christians. They do not baptize in the name of the Trinity, which is the proper form.
Once, while attending the Sunday School class I sometimes attend with my husband (non-denon. Evangelical) the teacher told us about a mission trip he and some others had just made to a Central American country. It seems that they had won over a couple of Catholic boys, and when they returned home, there was an email explaining that the boys’ mother and sisters had “become Christians”, too. Everyone in the class clapped…Everyone but me, of course. I have to tell you that I felt very hurt.
**While most Evangelicals will concede that some Cathoiics may actually be Christians, they do believe that the majority are probably not. **
My husband was re-baptized, saying that he felt that God wanted him to do so…He in no way felt that he had not been a Christian before, and the person who worked with him agreed. But, in order to become a member of this church one must be immersed…Because they believe they do things the way the first Christians did them, and they believe that immersion was the only way Christians were baptized.
Of course, the Catholic Church does recogniize immersion as the ordinary way of baptism, but does not insist upon it. I have worked with the RCIA for years, and know that we accept all Christian baptisms…with the exception of Mormom, and they are not…strictly speaking…
Christians. They do not baptize in the name of the Trinity, which is the proper form.
Z
ZoeTheodora
Guest
Well, Mel, if it’s counter-intuitive, you know it’s gotta be grace. Man, that Holy Spirit rocks!
I will add you to my Novena intentions. Will also add Coach. Friends don’t let friends stay Calvinist! :tsktsk:
Love
ZT, Catholic revert, born and bred in greater Boston (but got tar on mah heels now)
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Thepeug
Guest
No offense, but that’s a poor attitude. If you really believe that the Catholic Church is the most complete fulfillment of Truth on earth, I would think that you would want others to share in that Truth and experience the same fulfillment that you have. Catholicism is not an elitist club. Patience and compassion for others (including myself) is essential.
Peace,
Chris
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Amy
Guest
In my area of the country, I would have to say “None of the Above”.
Washington state and Oregon are the states with the “highest proportion of religiously-unaffiliated and self-identified ‘nonreligious’ residents.”
So I do not think any of the other denominations are grabbing a lot of Catholics.
Although, Catholicism is the largest religion here with just under 10% of the population.
My Pastor told me only about 3% of the Catholics in Oregon are practicing Catholics. So that’s 3% of the mere 10% of Catholics in Oregon!
The second largest “religion” is Mormonism", with just over 3% of the population. If any, I would suspect they are “bagging the most Catholics”. Mormons love “bagging converts”, but converting a Catholic is the Grand Prize. I’m not sure why, because they seem to hate us here.
Other than Mormons, there are a lot of the large evangelical “Mega-Churches” here. But members who attend these churches seem to be there for the “fellowship” and not for the worship if God.
It is a sad state of affairs. When we go to Mass we have to drag our son kicking and screaming because his friends are all out playing and he is the only one who has to go to church.
That is part of the reason we have him in our parish school. He is exposed all day long to the Faith and almost everyone there is Catholic. I want him to have plenty of Catholic friends and be exposed to our Faith as much as possible. I strongly believe if a child is raised in his faith, he will stick with it as an adult, or at least “come home” to the Catholic Church when he is ready.
Ave Maria!
Amy
Washington state and Oregon are the states with the “highest proportion of religiously-unaffiliated and self-identified ‘nonreligious’ residents.”
So I do not think any of the other denominations are grabbing a lot of Catholics.
Although, Catholicism is the largest religion here with just under 10% of the population.
My Pastor told me only about 3% of the Catholics in Oregon are practicing Catholics.
So that’s 3% of the mere 10% of Catholics in Oregon!The second largest “religion” is Mormonism", with just over 3% of the population. If any, I would suspect they are “bagging the most Catholics”. Mormons love “bagging converts”, but converting a Catholic is the Grand Prize. I’m not sure why, because they seem to hate us here.
Other than Mormons, there are a lot of the large evangelical “Mega-Churches” here. But members who attend these churches seem to be there for the “fellowship” and not for the worship if God.
It is a sad state of affairs. When we go to Mass we have to drag our son kicking and screaming because his friends are all out playing and he is the only one who has to go to church.
That is part of the reason we have him in our parish school. He is exposed all day long to the Faith and almost everyone there is Catholic. I want him to have plenty of Catholic friends and be exposed to our Faith as much as possible. I strongly believe if a child is raised in his faith, he will stick with it as an adult, or at least “come home” to the Catholic Church when he is ready.
Ave Maria!
Amy
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missal_user
Guest
I think the Nondenominational Denomination, as they are sooo very happy to receive catholics out of the church.
J
Jerry_Usher
Guest
I just saw this thread and am a “Johnny-come-lately” (or should I say a “Jerry-come-lately”?) to the discussion, but I’m wondering if Karl could have included an option along the lines of “Nothing.”
In other words, I would be curious to know how many Catholics are simply finding it too burdensome to keep up with the basic “demands” of the faith and are simply abandoning the practice of their faith altogether.
Just thinking out loud. And realizing yet again how blessed I am to have been given the gift of faith.
Let’s never take it for granted, and let’s never stop praying for anyone who leaves the Church, no matter the reason, no matter the destination.
Jerry
P.S. In scanning through the posts above, I can see that I’m not the first to share this thought.
to the discussion, but I’m wondering if Karl could have included an option along the lines of “Nothing.”In other words, I would be curious to know how many Catholics are simply finding it too burdensome to keep up with the basic “demands” of the faith and are simply abandoning the practice of their faith altogether.
Just thinking out loud. And realizing yet again how blessed I am to have been given the gift of faith.
Let’s never take it for granted, and let’s never stop praying for anyone who leaves the Church, no matter the reason, no matter the destination.
Jerry
P.S. In scanning through the posts above, I can see that I’m not the first to share this thought.
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agname
Guest
Karl Keating:
I would say…Church of the Couch Potato.
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Maccabees
Guest
Well I think answer varies to where you are located and since that is what I have to go by the fundamentalist/evangelical churches gobble up the most ex-catholics. Heck my own mother is now an evangelical ex-catholic oye-vay! As is the case of many family and friends this includes me but I went back to mother church. Praise Be to God. In the evangelical churches I attended they were full of ex-catholic they even had ministries whose sole purpose was to get catholics saved beleived it was the whore of Babylon and the whole rapture thing. They didn’t like to be called fundamentlist but evangelical. Honestly sometimes there is no differnece. I think the only potestanst who will admit to being fundamentlist are in the South. Fundamentalist outside of this area preferred to be called evangelicals. ITs a fine line really. Some evangelicals are very ecunmical with catholics and some are rabid anti-catholics but prefer the evangelical labeling. ITs hard to tell so I put them in the same group.
WHere I am from the evangelical mega -church is all the rage. OF course in some area there are mega churches sepeated by less than a few miles. So ok which mega church is right then?
Behind the Evangelical/Fundamentalist
The Mormon church is gaining too in the anglo community in the hispanic community here Jehovah’s witnesses have made a huge inroads
In the unorganized relgion category the ever popular I used to be catholic but crowd is a close rival to the evangelical movement.
I head a catholic desribe the Evangelical category not as a church but a movement and that is true for no one claims to be the Evangelical church of the true evangelical church just that the evangelica tenets that it holds are true. There is no concept of visible church that one may find in Catholicism or ORthodoxy. Its a movemnts of beleivers that invisible to us but valid if you have accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior. Which makes it necessary to classify Catholicism as the WHore of Babylon to justify the stealing of sheep programs they promote.
WHere I am from the evangelical mega -church is all the rage. OF course in some area there are mega churches sepeated by less than a few miles. So ok which mega church is right then?
Behind the Evangelical/Fundamentalist
The Mormon church is gaining too in the anglo community in the hispanic community here Jehovah’s witnesses have made a huge inroads
In the unorganized relgion category the ever popular I used to be catholic but crowd is a close rival to the evangelical movement.
I head a catholic desribe the Evangelical category not as a church but a movement and that is true for no one claims to be the Evangelical church of the true evangelical church just that the evangelica tenets that it holds are true. There is no concept of visible church that one may find in Catholicism or ORthodoxy. Its a movemnts of beleivers that invisible to us but valid if you have accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior. Which makes it necessary to classify Catholicism as the WHore of Babylon to justify the stealing of sheep programs they promote.
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SpiritualSon
Guest
Hello,
My name is Harry.I am member of the New Church (Swedenborg).My church’s doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. A man who lived in the 18th century.He died in 1772.
The New Church does not acknowledge the three Divine persons before creation because the sayings of Jehovah God in the Old Testament contradicts it.
As in the these passages:
**Am I not Jehovah, and there is no God beside Me? There is no righteous God and Saviour beside Me. Isa. 45:21, 22. **
**I am Jehovah, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Isa. 43:11. **
I am Jehovah your God, and you are not to acknowledge any God beside Me, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Hosea 13:4.
The Catholic Church and the New Church agree that good works is a must for salvation
.
****Repentance is the first stage in the development of the church in a person. ****
****By acts of repentance are meant all that prevent him from willing and so from doing the evil actions which are sins against God. ****
**
The Catholic Church and the New Church agrees that its members do not have sex before marriage.**
The Catholic Church and the New Church agrees that Our Jesus is Divine,the Protestants do not.They believe He is the Son of God only,but not God.
Harry
**
My name is Harry.I am member of the New Church (Swedenborg).My church’s doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. A man who lived in the 18th century.He died in 1772.
The New Church does not acknowledge the three Divine persons before creation because the sayings of Jehovah God in the Old Testament contradicts it.
As in the these passages:
**Am I not Jehovah, and there is no God beside Me? There is no righteous God and Saviour beside Me. Isa. 45:21, 22. **
**I am Jehovah, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Isa. 43:11. **
I am Jehovah your God, and you are not to acknowledge any God beside Me, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Hosea 13:4.
The Catholic Church and the New Church agree that good works is a must for salvation
.
****Repentance is the first stage in the development of the church in a person. ****
****By acts of repentance are meant all that prevent him from willing and so from doing the evil actions which are sins against God. ****
**
The Catholic Church and the New Church agrees that its members do not have sex before marriage.**
The Catholic Church and the New Church agrees that Our Jesus is Divine,the Protestants do not.They believe He is the Son of God only,but not God.
Harry
**
C
c0achmcguirk
Guest
Harry, you are aware that the Trinity says that there are three persons co-equal and co-eternal in one Godhead, correct? We assert and affirm that there is no other God than God Himself.
Where do you get your information? I’m a Protestant and I believe that Jesus is divine. Evangelicals have always believed in the Trinity–regardless of the small splinter wacko groups that would deny such a clear Biblical truth.
So, let me get this straight, Jehovah God is God, and Jesus is God…so they’re the same person? Are you saying that Jesus didn’t exist until He was born in the manger?
I’m all confused,
c0ach
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SPH1
Guest
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Susanna
Guest
I would say that in my experience in my diocese, Chicago (I am involved with returning Catholics and adult ed and formation) New Age beliefs are a real issue. Even those who have not left the Church have incorporated many of these beliefs into their faith. Enneagram, Reincarnation, eco-spirituality, even goddess worship. It is amazing to me. One has to be very careful when going to retreats and workshops—even in “Catholic” retreat houses
But then again we also have to contend with Willow Creek!
But then again we also have to contend with Willow Creek!
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credoinchristum
Guest
i think the secularism is the religion that’s taking most catholics away from the faith.
by secularism i mean the worship of things of the would i.e. money, the coolest cars, the biggest and nicest houses ect…
Dan Sisk
by secularism i mean the worship of things of the would i.e. money, the coolest cars, the biggest and nicest houses ect…
Dan Sisk
- Status